Select Cut Timber and Easement ?
 

I've got about 6 acres in the back which is wooded, level and lovely. The way the property lays it is only about 400 feet across but 1300 or so deep. I want to get that fenced a little at a time to put goats back there so I'm thinking of taking down some trees that are along the perimeters. Nice trees but not a truckload or maybe just one truckload of pulp. Also hope to let sun in so I can plant browse and areas of cover crop for the goats. It won't be possible to get to it from the front but I have an easement all the way to another road in the back. The easement is overgrown with trees, probably hasn't been used in decades but it is deeded. Last time I hired a company to select cut despite a whole bunch of promises they were plain sloppy and never returned to clean up. They also did a lot of damage which would make a mess of things on such a small piece of land.

So I'm wondering if it is worth the time to look for a really tidy select cutting crew? Or can anyone see an alternative to get the job done neatly?

And would I need to locate the owner of the parcel where the easement is located or do I have a right to clear it to make it passable?

I'd always talk to the owner, mostly as a courtesy. As for the cutting, that's a crapshoot, but I had a good experience last year with a guy who cut a 20 acre parcel. He ground up everything that wasn't carted off for timber. I think they used the ground up material to fire boilers or make pellets...not sure. Anyway, it was the cleanest parcel I've ever seen after a harvest. A large parcel near me was recently thinned with all the tops ground up. It really improved that forest.

Any horse loggers in your area? There's one traveling the country that passed through here last summer. WV has foresters that will look at a site for free. Might check with Tenn. Some of the tree may be worth more later if they're left to grow. A forester can help you with that.

I can't believe a pulp wooder will take any more care than the last one.

As I wrote that last question I was already thinking it didn't matter what the law allowed, it would be good to connect to the owners of the parcel anyway :) The woods back there have been robbed of probably all good marketable timber. It is a baby forest again. I had a forestry guy out at another parcel and it was really difficult to get him out there and he only told me the obvious (to me). Maybe, its not really the kind of work a timber company does. Its pretty small scale?

..............If I had a ROW completely blocked by growth , I'd leave it that way to act as a natural block to the owners of the ROW . Let the owners of the ROW spend.....THEIR.....money to cleanup their ROW . , fordy

These "logger" problems have been going on since before logs were invented! It's no different than any other thing you hire out.It is much more noticeable and that's where the problem stems from.
You pay for an oil change chances are you're getting the same sloppy job.Next time you have your tires balanced INSIST They double check it before you will pay them. They will be "close" but they will NOT be balanced.
The bottom line is if you want things done to YOUR standards,YOU have to do them!It is a very hard thing to do but I try to do everything I have the ability to do.Of course none of us can do that but then again that's part of what homesteading is about. Doing it yourself so you KNOW how it was done,what's in it where it came from etc.
Just my thought on the subject.Good luck.


Wade

:confused: but i'm the one that needs to use it, fordy.

Are you sure you want to open up that right of way for every 4 wheeler, hunter, ect that drives down the other road?

If you have a small amount of wood, maybe you could find someone that wants firewood to cut the trees you want cut.

I didn't think about that, thanks. I might advertise as firewood and see but would be almost impossible to take it out without the use of that easement. Maybe I'll just give up on it as it is not worth it to open up the easement.

.................You need a rocking chair for your porch , and a maybe a few long tailed cats ! , lol , fordy:cowboy:

:bouncy:yeah, i know.... thank you :)

Being an owner and operator of a Sawmill business for over twenty years here is what I have seen work and not.
First of all realize that every time your wood is touched it double in value. This is a generalization but fairly close in reality. So for the trees on your parcel you have to decide what you will accept and be happy.
One White Oak that is 6 feet in circumference. Meaning that it is 24 inches across at the base I am figuring for this discussion that it has a 10 foot log at the base that has 160 feet DOYLE Scale(This is the loggers scale that logs here are bought and sold by I figured the small end at 20 inches for the taper and that is the 160)
The Second Prime at 15 inches has 76 feet and the top has a 40 and 23 cross tie.
That means 236 feet at #1 price = Max of 85 cents (This is higher than wood is at this time but I am giving best case scenario
and 76 feet at tie price at 45 cents
This means the tree is worth $234.80 best case. Now there is probably one rick of firewood so we will figure $60.00 for that. This means that You have $294.80 for your tree.
Now that I have built you a Watch here is the time. If you had the greatest logger in the world who did fire wood also he still would charge half for cutting the tree. So it is $147.40
As a Homesteader here is what I advise people here.
Cut and haul the wood to a Mill. (Maybe even have the mill come to you) Pay them 30 cents a foot (This is what I charge others may be different) and take the wood home.
The 312 feet in the first two logs will produce probably 450 board feet of lumber.
300 feet of prime and 150 of utility. Also if you have the mill come to you you have more fire wood and sawdust.
Sticker the prime in the barn, If you don't have a barn you have a start of one with the utility wood. One year from now the 250 feet of lumber will be worth for discussion sake $1.70 per board foot. The top two logs made 30 board feet of lumber and two Cross ties. The ties are worth today $52.00
So bottom line is
250 feet at $1.70 = $450.00
200 feet utility .65= $130.00
Cross Ties $26.00= $52.00
Cost of Sawing >.30=
Total minus the Firewood $389.00 versus less than $150.00

I haven't looked at that area with cutting in mind only with fence building in mind. I used to have a neighbor that was a genius at barbed wire fencing. I bet he could build a fence to keep goats and an lgd inside without upsetting the vegetation too much. If I don't use the easement, cutting it is a moot point since there is no way to bring the wood out of there. My road to the back will not support the equipment and I'm not gving my front yard to a logging operation or a woodcutter. Just thinking about the mess is curing me of this project.... :)

You don't need to worry about the neighbor upsetting the vegetation too much. Your goats will take care of that. soon they will have the whole underbrush cleared out and you could not hide in there if you wanted to. They like honeysuckle especially. Sunday dinner. The goats would clear your easement if you had a way of keeping them there.

I can buy oak boards (1x6 or 1x8) for 38 cents a board foot, loaded onto my trailer. Many folks learn about someone selling a 60 inch around, clear, no knots, white oak and think their 30 inch around, slightly crooked, crotch at 12 feet, soft maple is valuable. Goats will kill many trees.

That's a deal on oak boards! I wish I had access to a deal like that. We get #.30 a board foot to saw them out so the oak it self is only$.08 ? The kiln gets $.30 a board foot kilned and planed so a total of $.68 per board foot for oak? I'd buy at $1.00 a board foot all day long.


Wade

these are rough sawn, not kiln dried. I bought a lot of 1x6 and 1x8, 16 feet long oak.:happy2:
But when talking about the value of standing timber, it is important that if a timberman is fast enough to make a living on the margin between what the landowner wants and what the mill will pay, he won't be landscaping your property. Lucky to get the tire trenches shoved in. A small operation, that takes great care, spends too much time to successfully compete with the big operation. So, he can't pay much. Most often, when it comes to choices, people chose the bigger money and then complain about the mess.:nono:

Without carefully walking through your wood lot, studying the local market for wood of those species, getting an idea of the amount of brushing on the easement, trails through the wood lot, loading and turning around cleared areas, your expectations of what will be left behind and number of trees that get damaged, but not taken.:hair

I don't know if this is a forest of tall, straight, valuable species, 2 feet across or if it is a mixture of 6 to 10 inch diameter trees.

I have seen goats eat the bark on trees, killing the trees. :mad:

Its kind of a mixture and in between but I don't know for certain. I never gave it much of a look in that direction. I've had timber cut before and my expectation wasn't as great as my disappointment. But I certainly understand how anyone in business needs to make a living. I do want to tame that down back there and make it safe for the goats with good fencing and it seems I'll need to give it a lot more consideration and time. Thanks hp.

Check and see if you could lose the ROW if you don't use it. It might be worth it to clear the ROA just to keep it. You could probably put up a gate and signs to keep trespassers out provided you gave a key to the owner too. One poster included hunters in the folks that would trespass. I object. There are a few that have no respect for private property but don't lump the good hunters in with them.

Your woods are 400 X 1300 feet. That's 520,000 square feet. An acre is 43,560 square feet. Your woods are almost 12 acres.

Thanks Nr. It isn't an exact measurement. I think along the back it is a little less than 400. I purchased 10.3 but it is possible that it is slightly more. Survey is 10.3, tax office has slightly different boundaries. I'll ask at the courthouse, thanks for letting me know I could lose the easement.

................In line with getting the easement removed , the proof of 'NON 'use is the density of tree's and brush covering that easement . The length of non use is visually proportional to the physical size of the tree's ! If , it becomes obvious that you can't get the easement removed without incurring large legal bills , then clearing the land won't make any difference . , fordy

I'll go take a look at it from the other road tomorrow. I saw it only once before. Should be very easy to see the size of the trees now.

..............Better take your single shot 22 , you might beable shoot supper and fix some Squirrel Steak with Parsley and Nooooodles , lol ! Don't forget to wear you Davy Crockett hat , it has special protective powers . , fordy:thumb:

Good luck getting any logger to come in for a single load of wood. We did have a guy that made a good living doing exactly that, but he died... As far as them 'cleaning up'? double good luck on that... probably couldn't give them the load of wood, if they had to straighten up afterwards...most of them are into logging, not landscaping.

If you're going with goats, cut out some of the 'trash' trees, fell them inwards from your fence, and the goats will go crazy working the tops (if it's summertime). I'd not cut any prime straight trunked trees, unless I carried them to get milled, for future building materials...

The porperty owners need to either let you maintain the easement in a usable manner or do it themselves. Depending on the state laws, it is possible for them to file for easement abandonment if you don't use it for a minimum number of years. You can always lock the gate where it enters your property to keep the ATVs out.

WWW

sounds like a good supper :) alas didn't go today. too lazy to go out on wet road. maybe tomorrow