I never said any of that. I said explain yourself in a civilized matter. Nothing more, nothing less. I never said anywhere that I had a problem with others "refuting" claims. I just asked for a civil explanation...You know, like grown ups do.

And obviously if someone agrees with me, I dont need an explanation because THEY AGREE WITH ME...Usually people who agree with others tend to have the same explanations why...lol I never said anything about "explaining the unexplained" or agree with someone "just because grandma did it"...Dont put words in others mouths, or in this case, letters in others eyes.

I dont even think me and you are talking about the same thing. Im talking about planting by the phases of the moon and your talking about people planting by supposed "signs" that they think they see.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/20/re...te-scientists/


Farmer's almanac more accurate than government climate scientists. At least this year.

http://www.farmersalmanac.com/calendar/gardening/
There is also the Old Farmers Almanac. In this web version, they tell you when you can plant and what. Very entertaining.

For those that use the directions to insure the survival of their families over the generations, which one did your grandpappy read?

"When I was 4 I'd go out with my grandmother, and we'd always try to plant potatoes on the full moon," said Michael Petitt, 25 years old, who grew up in the hills of Kentucky. "And we'd plant pole beans and corn and grasses on the full moon, for faster germination."

Mr. Petitt is an extension agent for Boyd County in Kentucky. He is working on his master's degree in horticulture. But he still plants by the moon.

"I think that geotropism -- the effect of gravity on plants -- is greater on the full moon," he said. "But I think it also affects some biochemical process. Of course I'd never say this to a client on the phone."

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/02/ga...or-lunacy.html

So we have a horticulturalist who practices it, but would never admit to a client that he does...mmmm

So to read a history and get a further look into planting, I ran across this little thesis:

PLANTING BY THE SIGNS AND BIODYNAMICS:
AGRICULTURAL TRADITIONS IN COSMOPOLITAN TIMES

Anthropology Thesis

Rachel Williamson

May 2006

Her thesis conclusion, I think sums up how many people regard traditions and gardening:

If people are truly seeking to learn more traditional ways of life in order to cultivate place-based communities, then the real learning needs to be done with elder neighbors, not globally distributed literature. Traditions, like the garden, cannot be maintained by leafing through books.
www.warren-wilson.edu/.../Williamson06.doc‎

Research done on this subject:


Dr. Frank Brown of Northwestern University performed research over a ten-year period of time, keeping meticulous records of his results. He found that plants absorbed more water at the time of the full moon. He conducted his experiments in a laboratory without direct contact from the moon, yet he found that they were still influenced by it. (2)

Rudolf Steiner was the founder of the anthroposophical movement, which sees a correlation between science, nature, universal laws and spiritual concerns. Out of this movement the Biodynamic methods of planting were developed. He established a relationship between the elements of earth, air, fire, or water that corresponded to specific parts of the plants. Earth corresponds to root, water to leaf growth, fire to seed production, and air corresponds to flowers. Hence, when planting crops for their fleshy roots, you would plant them in an earth sign, and so forth.

Other research referred to:

Further tests have been conducted, most notably by Frau Dr. Kolisko in Germany in 1939, and by Maria Thun in 1956. They primarily experimented with root crops, showing the effect of lunar phases on seed germination. They found maximum germination on the days before the Full moon. Crop yields were reported by weight.

Thun was surprised to discover that the signs of the zodiac played its' part as well. Thun experimented with a variety of crops: carrots and parsnips represented root crops; lettuce, spinach and corn salad as leaf types; beans, peas, cucumbers and tomatoes as fruit seed types; zinnias, snapdragons and asters were air crops. Crops responded well when planted in the appropriate sign for their type of plant. There were some exceptions, however. Some plants seemed to favor signs other than what would appear to be logical; for instance the brassica family, (broccoli, cauliflower, etc.) which one might consider flowering types, seemed to favor water signs. Cucumbers sown on leaf days had strong leafy growth, but did not produce many flowers. Their tests also seemed to indicate that responses to lunar planting were heightened when planted in organic soil that had not been treated with chemical fertilizer or pesticides. (4)

https://www.gardeningbythemoon.com/lunarfacts.html

Apparently some Master Gardeners at the University of Ohio believe that this works as here is an article entitled:

Planting by the Signs
by Dianne Bruner, Guernsey County Master Gardener

Planting by the signs is a fairly straight-forward operation. You plant aboveground crops such as lettuce, peas, tomatoes, etc. when the moon is waxing (growing) from New to Full Moon. Underground crops (beets, radishes, carrots, potatoes, etc.) are planted when the moon is waning from Full to New Moon. However, true gardening by the signs is a little more complicated.

http://guernsey.osu.edu/mg-file-fold...g-by-the-signs

It is apparent that planting by the signs (moon phases, etc.) have been going on for centuries, all the way back to the early Egyptians.

BTW - as far as Biblical references go - I wonder sometimes if the Lord did not intend for us to sow Christianity as well as crops..in the references cited by one of our posters. That is NOT for me to say as one cannot know the mind of God (and many do not believe God exists for there is no scientific proof that He exists, the same as there is little scientific proof that planting by the signs works).

I suppose it comes down to beliefs. What one believes and knows in one's own mind and heart. I personally believe that God exists as well as planting by the signs works as I have a personal relationship with both.

Others can believe as they see fit. But do NOT discount my belief as a false belief, for my belief is as real to me as your unbelief is to you.

What you said was, "Well, usually when people communicate on chat boards, they go into detail about what they are talking about, especially if they are denying someone else's claims." What I meant to say, but must have been unclear was that in this discussion there are two basic viewpoints. If your standard for discussion is to back up your viewpoint, then offering a web site that explains it is a legitimate response. But if that really is the standard you demand, where is the evidence that supports your viewpoint? I was trying to communicate that just because Grandma did it that way does not make it so.

The Farmers Almanac lists days that are good to plant and days that it is good to butcher. I think those days are selected based upon the phase of the moon, waning or waxing and other such phases.

If you are in a group discussion where some agree with you and a few don't, you still need to prove your claim, not to bolster support from the believers, but to lend credence to your beliefs among the non-believers. This really isn't religion and you cannot depend entirely on faith that it works.

I see now that this is a touchy subject. I have a low tolerance for myths and adults believing in magic. I jump into the discussion in hope of shining some light on the topic, but in the end, no one changes their mind.

If this topic has enough meat on it, I can only hope someone that hasn't made up their mind can chew on this discussion and come to a conclusion that fits with their beliefs. It is never my intent to ridicule and always my intent to offer help. But I just do a bad job with such nonsense. Sorry.

Actually Haypoint I respect your views and often read your posts and I try very hard to not ridicule or otherwise build up my response by belittling yours. I think you are a fine horseman and a knowledgeable farmer.

But sometimes you do come across as sarcastic and nasty as in the post above, see the italics. It reads as if you think everyone is nuts and only you are correct. I do not think that is your intention, but actually it makes people quite defensive and then, they will NOT open their minds to your ideas.

I am not always clear and concise when I write, I have to snatch time to look things up in between work, home, riding, cooking, looking for a new farm and taking care of my mom long distance and driving back and forth. I do try though to make myself clear, not be ugly to people and if I think I am - I will apologize. It is the nature of the written word that leaves it open to misinterpretation.

I hope that all who are on this thread will read beyond the written word and look for some common ground. Perhaps we should do an experiment since there is very little research on whether this method works or not?

I think I would participate on my little patio..lol..I have not yet found my next farm so am having to garden in pots. Not my ideal method, but one that I have found works for me given my circumstances right now.

Who would like to participate? Not the whole garden but perhaps we could agree to do a certain crop (tomatoes, potatoes, etc) and only a small area so that no one would be "giving up" their whole garden to a method they do not believe in.

What do you say? I am willing to participate - are there others here?

quote:
Perhaps we should do an experiment since there is very little research on whether this method works or not?

This is not exactly true, but it escapes notice.
Maria Thun has done test after test on her farm. She is not the only one.

I agree, maybe we should do a test.
I suggest everybody plant a short row of onions and a short row of radishes in the waxing of the moon, maybe when the moon is in a flower sign.
The 7 -9th of March is suitable,
plant a control group on the 24th or 25th of March. I am looking for more dates.

You have said you came to this thread willing to be shown that planting by the signs works. The only way that you can be shown is for you to put it to the proof for yourself. So I have an offer to make to you and a challenge for you to set for yourself. That's if you're really serious and honest about being willing to be shown that doing things by the signs works. Read on and I'll make my offer at the end of this post and then it's up to you to decide whether or not you wish to accept the challenge for yourself.

There is actually thousands of years worth of published data available but if you wanted to put it to the proof and really understand it thoroughly it would mean you would have to study the data then experiment with it yourself. That's something that takes a lot of time because of the lengthy research and dedicated experimentation that's entailed.

Time is of the essence to farmers, it's not something that most farmers have plenty of to waste on research and experimentation so people like those who publish the Farmer's Almanac decided to make it easier for the farmers by taking the data and condensing it into an easy to follow calendar with daily guidelines. Everything that's in the Farmer's Almanac about doing farm activities through the signs is all based on Astrology. The signs are just names. They are the names of the zodiac and the zodiac is the celestial bodies - moons, planets, sun, the groups of stars and galaxies outside of the solar system. They and their placement and relation to each other are all things that have been proven over thousands of years to have an influence on planet earth and everything on it.

I have the data in front of me. It's not the Farmer's Almanac, it's better. It's what the Farmer's Almanac uses to get their information which they then publish in very simplified form for the convenience of their readers.

So here is the offer. You pick an experiment for yourself to do on your farm. Choose something that won't be costly so that you can allow for personal failures and not have those failures set you back or inconvenience you. Then tell me your location and what the experiment is that you want to try. It's best to choose something that you could reasonably expect to show definite results within a couple of days to a couple weeks at the most. Then I will tell you what are the very worst days and the very best days to try the experiment and I will tell you why. Then you must do the experiment on both one or two worst days and one or two best days. The reason for doing it on bad and good days is so that you will be able to make comparisons of the results - to put results to the proof for yourself. Then afterwards, if you wish, you can let us know how the experiment went for you.

LOL. I see while I was typing the above post and before I posted it, Sidepasser and Tabitha had already suggested an experiment.

My offer still stands.

Sidepasser, thank you for listing a few names (Williamson, Brown, Kolisko, Thun). That does give me something to look towards for more information just like what I've been wanting to see.

Paumon, thank you for your offer. I am unable to do anything with it right now but may see whether the offer stands some time in the future when I am better prepared to take you up on it. Just as a practical matter, what plants would you suggest would be good candidates as per your post? (fast growing, not requiring a lot of space or expense) The "where" is a lot more difficult for me than the "when" or "how" as my gardening space this year will be quite limited, way more so than I'd like.

Bellyman, any plant would be a good candidate. You tell me what you want to plant and when and where you want to plant it - i.e. starting seeds inside the home or outside of the home. For that matter the experiment need not be about something as simple as plants, it could be some other chore or endeavour. It could be when is the best time to look for certain information, or when to get a haircut, when to cook something, when to go fishing or hunting, when to prune a given tree, when to look for a certain item to buy, when to do woodwork, when to build a fence or when to break up concrete or knock down a stone wall. When to do some kind of artwork or other handicrafts. Give it some thought and use your imagination.

Interesting that a group of people that generally resist being told anything, would deny the sun rises in the east if a scientist told them it did, would follow the directions of a publisher on when they could drill a post hole, without question?

Either I didn't search hard enough or the work that the folks listed above is not freely available online. I found the same statements made in the post above over and over and over, website after website after website (most verbatim copy) stating what the various experimenters concluded but never saw one shred of data. I'm not done looking but I find it interesting that none has at least slipped out. Either that or I really haven't found the right website yet.

Anybody have a website bookmarked that actually shows any real data? Surely there must be at least a sample somewhere.

I believe there were two experiments in the late 1960s, proving that planting by the commands of the Old Farmers Almanac did effect plant growth. But those experiments were later discredited when it was discovered that a Plexiglas pyramid had been placed over some of the samples. We all know the powers of the pyramid, right?:rock:
In the other experiment, an assistant had inadvertently left a divining rod or witching stick nearby, thus the plants bent towards the willow stick instead of the moon.:grin:

Don't give up just yet. I'm sure someone out there has created a web site with data that proves the theory. Maybe we can get Dr. Mercola to run the data.:runforhills:

:kiss:

Here is a study done by Walter Goldstein holds a Ph.D. in agronomy and is Research Director and Education Coordinator at the Michael Fields Agricultural Institute, W2493 County Road, ES, East Troy, Wisconsin, 53120. He is currently involved in a number of research projects and travels throughout the US and abroad to consult with prospective biodynamic farmers. He has a thirty-five acre Demeter certified farm with 150 sheep.

The Effects of Planting Dates and Lunar Positions On the Yield of Carrots
Walter Goldstein and Bill Barber

http://www.astro-calendar.com/shtml/...ldstein2.shtml

At the end of this text are references:

References
1) S. Wildfeuer, Stella Natura ,9,97 (Kimberton, Pennsyl-
vania: Bio-Dynamic Press, 1997).
2) K.P. Endres and W Schad, Biologie des Mondes
(Stuttgart: S. Hirzel Publisher, 1997).
3) H. Spiess, "Chronological Investigations of Crops Grown Under Biodynamic Management. i. Experiments with Seeding Dates to Ascertain the Effects of Lunar rhythms on the Growth of Winter Rye (Secale cereale, cv. Nomaro) ", Biological Agriculture and Horticulture 7 (iggo): 165-178.
4) Ibid., "Chronological Investigations of Crops Grown Under Blodynamic Management. z. Experiments with Seeding Dates to Ascertain the Effects of Lunar Rhythms on the Growth of Little Radish (Raphanus sativus, cv. Parat)": 179-I89.
5) , Chronologische Untersuchungen mit beson-
deter Beruecksichtigung lunarer rythmen im biologisch-dynamischen Pflanzenbau. Schriftenreihe: Band 3. (Darmstadt: Institut fuer Biologisch-Dynamische Forschung, I994). German language. In English: "Chronological Research with Special Consideration of Lunar Rhythms in Biodynamic Crop Production."
6) , "Lunar Rhythms and Plants," BIODYNAMICS 229 (2000): 19-21.
7) R. Steiner, Spiritual Foundations for the Renewal of Agriculture, (Kimberton, Pennsylvania: Bio-Dynamic Press, 1993).
8) L. Kolisko, Moon and Plant Growth (Bournemouth,
England: Kolisko Archive, 1978).

I do not have time right now to hunt down the articles cited above, but perhaps looking for #8 which is an oft cited piece of research would be beneficial. I am sure if I had enough time, I could locate the data - but I have a report I need to finish before I leave today and this is the best I can do under the circumstances.

Here is a study done by Walter Goldstein who holds a Ph.D. in agronomy and is Research Director and Education Coordinator at the Michael Fields Agricultural Institute, W2493 County Road, ES, East Troy, Wisconsin, 53120. He is currently involved in a number of research projects and travels throughout the US and abroad to consult with prospective biodynamic farmers. He has a thirty-five acre Demeter certified farm with 150 sheep.

The Effects of Planting Dates and Lunar Positions On the Yield of Carrots
Walter Goldstein and Bill Barber

http://www.astro-calendar.com/shtml/...ldstein2.shtml

At the end of this text are references:

References
1) S. Wildfeuer, Stella Natura ,9,97 (Kimberton, Pennsyl-
vania: Bio-Dynamic Press, 1997).
2) K.P. Endres and W Schad, Biologie des Mondes
(Stuttgart: S. Hirzel Publisher, 1997).
3) H. Spiess, "Chronological Investigations of Crops Grown Under Biodynamic Management. i. Experiments with Seeding Dates to Ascertain the Effects of Lunar rhythms on the Growth of Winter Rye (Secale cereale, cv. Nomaro) ", Biological Agriculture and Horticulture 7 (iggo): 165-178.
4) Ibid., "Chronological Investigations of Crops Grown Under Blodynamic Management. z. Experiments with Seeding Dates to Ascertain the Effects of Lunar Rhythms on the Growth of Little Radish (Raphanus sativus, cv. Parat)": 179-I89.
5) , Chronologische Untersuchungen mit beson-
deter Beruecksichtigung lunarer rythmen im biologisch-dynamischen Pflanzenbau. Schriftenreihe: Band 3. (Darmstadt: Institut fuer Biologisch-Dynamische Forschung, I994). German language. In English: "Chronological Research with Special Consideration of Lunar Rhythms in Biodynamic Crop Production."
6) , "Lunar Rhythms and Plants," BIODYNAMICS 229 (2000): 19-21.
7) R. Steiner, Spiritual Foundations for the Renewal of Agriculture, (Kimberton, Pennsylvania: Bio-Dynamic Press, 1993).
8) L. Kolisko, Moon and Plant Growth (Bournemouth,
England: Kolisko Archive, 1978).

I do not have time right now to hunt down the articles cited above, but perhaps looking for #8 which is an oft cited piece of research would be beneficial. I am sure if I had enough time, I could locate the data - but I have a report I need to finish before I leave today and this is the best I can do under the circumstances.

Directly from the web site listed, the results are : (p. 187): "the long-term results found here do not confirm the relationship between trigons and root
and leaf yields that were reported by Thun."

I would have to agree with that finding but I think their methodology was a little bit too exclusive for them to get the confirmation they were looking for. I'm not familiar with Thun's work so I don't know if she relies solely on lunar activity (as the above noted experiments did) or if she also takes into account the juxtaposition of other planets and their trigonal or lack of trigonal relationships with each other and with the moon. Personally I've found more success when taking all of the planets placements into account and not basing things solely on lunar placement.

Lori, I tried getting your almanac. Typed in my E mail addy where Amazon asked. Told them I was a new customer. Nothing happened after that.

Yeah, were not talking about the same thing. Im taking about the power of the moon and your talking about voodoo and magic.

Either way, I didnt say anything in any of my posts agreeing with anyone's beliefs in using and almanac or not. I said if they want to do it, do what works FOR YOU. What claims did I make? I posted an ancient calendar system based on the phases of the sun and moon that eventually led to our current modern calendar. I never said anything about "signs", in which me and you probably have very similar viewpoints.

If people want to believe in what you call "Magic and nonsense", that is fine. Some things cannot be explained and if someone is happy doing it, they dont have to explain it. But if they come into a conversation making challenges and refuting others claims, then yes they should give an explanation.

The world doesnt work according to "haypoint". I knew of some over zealous Roman butchers who had a low tolerance for myths and people who believed in magic as well. They forced their views onto them by the tip of a sword. They probably sounded alot like someone else I know around here...

I never tried to make any points other than the moons gravity *might* have an effect on plants and for others to do what works for them and make them happy. But Im sure youll scour all my posts just to try and find some thing to prove me wrong or get the last word. So, happy fishing.

However, this was also pointed out in the research paper:

Following excerpt from report by Malcolm Gardner

Dr. Spiess reported the results of this and several other experiments already back in 1990 in the English-language journal, Biological Agriculture and Horticulture, vol. 7, pp. 165-189. Regarding his work with radishes over three years, he wrote (p. 187): "the long-term results found here do not confirm the relationship between trigons and root
and leaf yields that were reported by Thun. These relationships were not confirmed, despite the fact that the highest positive deviations in yield of roots were found when the moon was in the constellation of Capricorn which belongs to the 'earth' or 'root' trigon." In other words, he could not find any evidence for a "trigon rhythm," although he did find that the highest root yields coincided with the period when the Moon was in one of the "earth" constellations. At these times, however, the Moon was also at perigee (nearest the earth). He concluded that "lunar factors" were large enough to be of practical significance, but because there are so many overlapping lunar rhythms, he stressed that "the problem is complex and more systematic research of a basic nature is needed to clarify causal relationships."

It appears that Gardner thought more systematic research was required.

It was also noted in his paper that this system of planting may have economic importance for commercial enterprises:

The variations in the data also indicate that synodic lunar phases may play a more important role for carrots. The results are in agreement with results obtained by Spiess in that the highest relative yields were achieved when carrots were planted just before the full moon. 5 The variations of yield associated with different plantings and lunar positions may be of economic importance under commercial conditions.

Research, like the Bible, can't be picked over for what one wants to find, it has to be taken as a whole.

The study also said this was only a one year trial and that more research would be needed.

The reason I posted this paper was the cites involved which are referred to by many in regards to research done previously involving planting by the signs (moon influences). I thought that might be a way for those interested in finding the DATA to locate it.

I think if it works for you and you (general you used here) keep records and know that in the last five years, planting carrots when the moon is in X and you get a truckload of carrots..that is perfectly good for you as far as data goes. Most folks who keep journals record more than the date planted. They also record things such as rainfall, fertilizers used, where the crop was planted, what type of seed, pests that arrived and what killed them, etc. So use of all that data plus your signs calendar is about as scientific as the average gardener has the time to do or the inclination. In my opinion, if my garden turns into a job with record keeping involved, I would just as soon not garden as I do nothing but collect data and facts all day long. Gardening is FUN for me with an added bonus of getting something to eat, can and share.

Irrelevant as to which ye want me to be, for I am, and always will be, myself. Censorship = the threat of closing a thread if it does not comply with that which ye feel "correct". "Correct" being subjective as it was not disclosed.

Point being that most likely, posts do not reflect the same effect of personal conversation ( all was civil). Most likely, we would all have a blast sitting around a campfire and having this discussion face to face - and all would be well.

As this board has been sold, it is assumed that profit is of a concern. Profit is assumed to be made via advertising ... which is based on popularity of a searched on topic.

No point in particular but, ye have ( as of this post) made 7,679 posts that equated to 1705 "likes" ... my 491 posts have garnered 311 likes. 22% vs 63%.

Just out walking the dog and am surely done with this discussion .... but never afraid to inquire of ones position in an attempt to better comprehend and comply.

Ye made a warning to close this discussion and asked "who am I censoring?".

I ask,under that threat, whom are you not censoring? Which opinion will comply for continuation?

It has nothing to do with new ownership, profits, post count or anything else. HT was a very firm be nice rule that has always been first and foremost.

There are multiple sources for the North American Biodynamic Calendar, by Maria Thun. You can find out with a google search, if need be. You need to join Amazon, get set up to order...might be the issue.

Evidence? Had I known any one would have wanted to see it, I would have taken more pictures and kept track of my own experiments using Maria Thun's NABC. She cites conducting thousands of experiments, but I don't know where one would get the documentation.

Had I not utilized the NABC, conducted my own experiments with propagation, sowing, and harvesting? I would likely still be a skeptic. All I can do is encourage those curious to invest a modest amount for a NABC, try it out, and decide for themselves.

I thought this thread was posted with the intention of gaining reference (s) to planting by the moon, an updated calendar... Why all the debating against the use? Why not post a thread for that purpose???

I'm wondering why my state ag extension program has different plant dates than the Farmer's Almanac.

A problem I'm having is some sources seem to have a distinct occult flavor to them. I pretty well agree one who plants by the signs does better with their garden.

Maybe one might find something that explains what the believe.

Your state ag extension program probably doesn't list planting dates in accordance with the moon and stars the way Farmer's Almanac does.

Gardening by the moon for me often means using moonlight to see. I do it when I have time and can see what I'm doing. On the other hand, I have castrated over a couple thousand animals. I have noticed that sometimes they bleed excessively at times or develop complications with banding. Over the years, undoubtedly because of my ignorant belief in silly superstition, I have noticed that when the sign is in the knees and going down, few problems arise, and when bad problems with bleeding occur the sign is in the head or heart, and infection seems to happen with a sign in the "secrets" at time of banding or castrating. At one time I thought that going by the signs was scientifically absurd. Now, the sign is still right when the knife is sharp, but if I have a bunch to do at one time, I'll side with superstition. I also can and have found water and underground pipes that I had no idea where to find by using a couple of bent brazing rods. It's not exactly a metal detector but beats the heck out of digging around with a shovel till you find it. I have witnessed some pretty miraculous things as a result of acupuncture.
Those who put there faith in science often belittle things that cannot be explained. Science has come a long way, but modern science does not know all of the questions, let alone all of the answers. The scientific community is largely made up of teachers, this professor, and that professor. Those that can, do, and those that can't, teach.
One of the biggest problems we have today is that most research is carried out by students, in the form of degree studies. Two years of research go into a thesis, and until someone does it different, those are "facts." Two years is not a very long time in terms of collecting subjective data on agricultural practices that may be trending for decades. (Two year grant for studying vanishing honeybees?)
The reason you will never see the scientific community doing valid, peer-reviewed research into what are known as "fringe beliefs" is because it would leave them with more things that couldn't be explained, and possibly even make them look silly. When you come right down to it, a lot of the driving force behind "modern science" is man's vain attempt to deny his insignificance in the grand scheme of things. In today's society, the brightest scientific minds work very hard for large corporations, proving that the stuff they are killing us with is really quite safe. The flunkies go to work for the government to oversee the first group. It used to be the opposite. Mixing 2-4-D and 2-4-5-T was the most brilliant thing to put on your corn-field, but it was just horrible to spray on an unpopular jungle military excursion a few short years later. Now it's good again, thanks to GMO. Way to go science! I can see why you wouldn't want to waste your time figuring out WHY there is so much antidotal evidence for a lot of things, like acupuncture, herbal remedies, moon signs and stuff when we can have corn that lives through agent orange! Maybe some things just work for those who believe in it. I believe more in a bent peach limb than the contemporary scientific community.

Well, I'd like to try planting by the signs, the problem is that I always happen to be unable to be home on the few days of the month that I can plant certain things. I'd miss a whole month if I waited for it to come around again, but I sure am going to try!

Anecdotal evidence is often the basis for the experiments done with the scientific method.Farmers have always looked for signs in nature--like, don't plant corn until the oak leaves look like a mouses ear or somesuch...

Now, on this farm the g grandparents always planted potatoes on St. Patricks day. But now, as a result of climate change, we are in a new zone! What to do! I will have to buy the new Farmers Almanac--which I always do because I enjoy it. Just wish I could try it sometime.

I think you are mixing up three different methods of planting.
St. Patrick's day is not planting by the signs, it is planting by a calendar.
Planting when oak leaves are the size of a mouse ear isn't planting by the signs dictated in the Farmers Almanac, it is using other plants to tell you soil temperature, length of daylight and average air temperature.
The "planting by signs"discussed here is in the Almanac.
Now you need to pick one. There is the Farmers Almanac and the Old Farmers Almanac. :spinsmiley:

I Use Llewelleyns Moon sign Book. Lori Christi promotes one Im going to get and look at.

Llewellyns is a good one. Another good one which I've been using for 40 years now is Maynard's Celestial Influences calendar. I use the Pocket Calendar version. You can get them for your own time zone. It tells you good days and best days for planting above ground and below ground crops as well as having an ephemeris and full descriptions about the moon's effects and about other planets and celestial influences:

http://www.astroamerica.com/text/maynardwall.html

http://www.astroamerica.com/calendar.html

The moon is the same distance whether its full or partial.
The thing is, if someone thinks it helps them, then they will forget about the times it doesn't or rationalize them away. Perception is reality.


Guess I'm out of luck as I planted some stuff last weekend. But it was pretty nice days; mid 70's, sun was shining, light breeze, certainly not barren. We'll see.

That's actually incorrect. There are times when the moon is closer or further away from the earth during its orbit every month. The two extremes are called lunar perigee and lunar apogee. During the moon’s elliptical shaped orbit, there is one side that is closer to Earth than the other.

Perigee is when the moon is nearest to the Earth during its monthly orbit. During this time, the moon appears brighter and larger in the sky. The other extreme is lunar apogee which is the point farthest from the Earth during the moon’s monthly orbit. When the moon reaches its apogee, its rotation is faster than its orbital motion which reveals eight degrees of longitude of its western (left) far side.

Due to lunar libration, which is the slow rocking back and forth of the moon that allows an observer to see slightly different halves of the moon’s surface at different times, the moon’s rotation is slower than its orbital motion at its perigee. This allows us to see up to eight degrees of longitude of its eastern (right) far side. When a full moon occurs during a lunar perigee, it may look larger than average. Compared to its apogee, the moon’s diameter looks about 12-14% larger at its perigee.

This link is for calculating the times and distances within kilometers of the moon from earth for each month of any given year during perigee and apogee: https://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html



Perhaps you may have heard of a Supermoon? It doesn't happen often but a supermoon is a full moon which occurs when the moon's closest approach to the Earth (lunar perigee) coincides with the phase of full moon.

• If a full moon is closer than 360,000 kilometers at perigee, it is considered a Super Full Moon.
• If a full moon is further away than 400,000 kilometers at apogee, it is listed as a Micro Moon.

http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy...full-moon.html

My daffodils are up and one of looks like it has a flower stock bulging out. Is that good enough?

It is pretty amazing that the very people who dismiss planting by the almanac because it is not scientific, don't comprehend the vast amount of science involved. The almanac is a random publication, no more capable of predicting long term weather or market crashes than meteorologists or stock analysts. But contained within the almanac are monthly calendars. These calendars include the "sign" for that day. This sign is one of the zodiac signs. They are not random squiggles, they are relative to moon position. Since the lunar cycle is roughly 29 days, and we have random length months, and leap year, most years have 12 full moons, except when we have 13 full moons, and they don't correspond whatsoever to the days of our calendar months, for example, the full moon is not always on the 15th. So the signs are nothing more than a lunar calendar. The original poster whose mother is using a 1999 almanac, is missing the mark by a good bit unless she is really good at lunar astrology.
Now some of the mental giants have mentioned things about the moon having no more gravitational pull when it is full compared to when it is empty, or new or whatever. Well they are right, but for the wrong reason. The point that people keep missing is that the moons fullness has no bearing on it's gravitational pull, but it does have bearing on it's position RELATIVE TO THE SUN. The sun also has a gravitational pull. The way these two gravitational pulls interact give us the tides, although many other factors are involved in tides. The shape of the ocean floor, the coastline, rotation of the earth all play a roll, it is doubtful that scientists would be able to predict when the tides would happen without an existing record. Most places have two high and two low a day, but some places only have a high and a low. One thing certain, they couldn't predict the tides at all without the same information that is contained in the almanac. The fullness of the moon does affect the intensity of the tides. To think that the forces that can cause the waters of the ocean to vary by almost 40 feet in places can't have an effect on cotyledons and tendrils and chalazas and capillaries would be ignorant. To pretend that anyone has all of this stuff completely figured out would be equally as ignorant. Your beans won't do as good if you wait until it's real hot and dry and the right sign. If you let a calf get about 750 pounds waiting on the right sign, he will probably bleed a little. But if it works out, why not? Every bit as logical to plant by the signs as to eat turkey on Thanksgiving.

ANOTHER THANG

Whether you believe in the signs or not, WHAT DOES IT MATER TO MOST PEOPLE??. If one believes in it, your not going to change their thinking. If one dosent believe in it, your not going to change their thinking, UNLESS they try it for themselves

Why do some people buy Farmalls, and other buy JDs. Both were good tractors. Dad had several of both. Ive ran several of both. I couldnt see a difference in pulling power, or handiness, ect. BUT people HAD different ideas on what, TO THEM was the better tractor.
Dad had a WC AC. He bragged to me several times that they were threshing, and the guy with a D JD hadn't shown up to move the thresher. Dad was young and full of P and Vinegar, and he hooked onto it although all said it would never pull it. It did pull it TILL he got to a small ditch. The tractor went across but when the front wheels dropped down into the ditch of the thresher, that ended it. He likely might have stayed with AC cept he ran over my older brother with it, and that ended AC there. We had my Grandads CC Case. It was a heck of a puller, but dad hated it. He had HIS preferences.

I knew people who had Nashs, Kiasers, Frasers, Studibakers, ( a girl I dated ONCE had one and thought, or was told that I was a studi mechanic). My aunt had a Packard. I can remember De Sotos. The people who had bought and drove them, thought that they were a good car. They likely were willing to argue the point.
THEY HAD THEIR PREFERENCES/