In this thread alone there are considerably more than one or two.

BTW . . . The distance of the moon from earth increases each year, eventually it will be a very distant object.

Sigh.

At first I thought the post I wanted to reply to was a joke considering the absurdness... Then I realized it was serious.

I didn't bother explaining because they taught us this in I think 3rd grade? Maybe 4th... but still.

Another reason I didn't explain was because of a new fangled tool I like to call the "google."

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+tides+work

Never heard of it before. Is it different from the information in the Farmers Almanac? If so what is different if you know?

I might get interested in biodynamic approach. I know for sure when digging a post hole and filling it there is something to do with the moon phase. Do it in the wrong phase and you'll be looking for more dirt even with the post to fill the hole.

Does this affect transplanting?

Erm... How could that possibly make sense?

To humor you and the others:
Even if you get less dirt out of the hole when you dig in the wrong phase/sign. It should still fill it's own hole when filled during the same phase/sign.

I think it is "going away" at about a quarter of an inch a year or some insignificant amount?

Pig, That's true about digging post holes.

Theres a buncha Johnny come lately wannabe farmers/gardeners/homesteaders, who, cause they can buy a piece of property and can plant it, thinks that all the old ways of doing things is old hat. They don't want to try it and see for themselves. If they don't believe in it, than its no good no matter how many generations of people used to do it.
kinda like saying that if someone bought a new tractor, that theyd feel that no tractor produced before could do the work that their new tractor did.

And that is exactly what I went looking for, basically people who have gone before and DOCUMENTED the results in something QUANTITATIVE. Oh, there are lots of stories. And for some, rules to follow to get the timing just right. But little in the way of hard evidence which would seem like it should be so easy to come by IF planting by the signs truly makes the difference it is purported to.

Someday, I'd like to try some true side by side comparisons for myself but I don't have the time or resources to do it this year. Surely, someone has done this already. And I don't mean, "it did better when I planted it by the signs". I mean:

Pounds harvested per X' row when planted against the signs vs pounds harvested per X' row harvested when planted with the signs, multiple crops. I did find one person who tried it with beans but evidently, beans are not an acceptable test because they didn't prove that planting by the signs had any appreciable effect.

Guess I'll go put on my elephant repellant. It works! I know it works. I haven't seen any elephants in a very long time!

Interesting the things folks will believe and how hard they'll work to prove they are right. Doesn't matter if there is proof. I've always believed that rationalization was a powerful human emotion. Reminds me of the folks that swear that UFOs are abducting humans or those that buy into the notion of a wolfman that sucks the blood of sheep, Chupacabra or some such.
I once saw a man pull a quarter from behind a child's ear, but that doesn't make it true.
I guess it is the strong emotional attachment to the notion that amazes me most.
But if you believe Elvis is going to return from the dead, I am fine with letting you believe. Same for scheduling your homestead around the almanac. But I'll keep planting by soil temperature, soil moisture and a 10 day forecast that calls for rain every other day. I have no trouble bleeding out a pig, right after he passes 250 pounds and he finishes off that last bag of ground GMO corn and GMO soybean. Mmmmmm...... bacon.....without waiting for the waning moon to pull the blood out of his throat.
I'm not farming to do a reenactment of the share croppers of a hundred years ago. I'm seeking a balance of small scale with the advances of agricultural knowledge to afford me the opportunity to succeed.
Your experiences may differ.

Haypoint, you protest to much. You are working pretty hard to get someone to take your side. You are one that has to be shown, you can not believe what you can not wrap your head around. all well and good. Just don't put people down who believe different. My Grandmother used it, both in Kansas and here. I doubted it and used her journal to check some of it out. Some things do work, some haven't for me. Seems some work at times and other times I do not see any or much difference. Maybe some worked better in Kansas. I don't push it, I just use what I feel a need for. I am sure you do somethings others would think strange. We all have our ways....James

Working "sometimes" would be what we rational folk call a coincidence.

You have brought nothing to this post. Just stirring the pot. Now you are the "rational" one??????????

....James

There are many things that cannot be explained in the world. Perhaps there is no explanation required.

The earliest history was oral. Traditions passed down from one generation to the next and the next, does that make the traditions wrong because they were not written down and tested and declared to be "true".

Truth..what does that mean? Does it mean that if I plant by the signs which happen to correspond to an unexpected storm and all my seeds wash away, that planting by the signs is wrong? Or is the real truth, that I should have looked to the sky and seen that there were storm clouds approaching? Or should I have planted in a different site where the seeds were more protected? There could be truth in any or all of those statements.

If there are those that plant by the signs, and their observation is that by doing so, their garden grew and produced, why would they require "tests and proof" of that fact? It is their observation that it did work for them in their garden.

Now it may not work in my garden on the same day as conditions may not be the same. It may behoove me to take into consideration the signs and the local weather, my ground, my seeds, and fertilizer requirements.

Planting by the signs was a TOOL used by people to assist in determining when the best time to plant would be. I do not recall my grandparents saying that is ALL they used to determine when to plant. But I do know it was a fact, that every summer, I hoed beans. To this day I despise green beans in my garden and do not plant them.

I have learned a great deal by personal observation. I doubt that I would be able to prove some things to any satisfaction to a great number of people, but I know those things to be fact. Deriding another's belief in what I do not understand is not conducive to learning. The fallacy in all of this is that every thing, every idea, every belief must be proven.

yes there are some important effects on the earth based on the moon...I've known since I was a small child that there will nearly aways be a frost the night of a full moon in June, so cover any tender plants or do not plant them until after the full moon in June..occasionally there will be a frost every full moon all summer long in Michigan..do not tell me the moon does not effect growth of plants, I've witnessed i and a witness cannot be convinced otherwise

Well, usually when people communicate on chat boards, they go into detail about what they are talking about, especially if they are denying someone else's claims. After all, thats what humans do right? We communicate to each other in a civilized manner. But lately online, it seems like most people like to talk to others like condescending jerks (but not you, oh definitely not you) who act like they know everything.

If you want to leave a comment on a "chat" board, then chat. Dont post a snide remark and then, when confronted about it, make it sound like its everyone else's fault for "not knowing" and post what I like to call a "lazy link". If you say something, communicate your point in a civil respectful manner..And did it ever occur to you that not everyone went to grade school? Or is as smart as you? Or can even remember that far back?

The original post that you responded to by saying "thats not how it works at all" could have been solved by giving a brief explanation. But really, I dont think you could have, so you had to refer to google. Either way, the person who you quoted, even though he/she was not EXACTLY correct, was not far from the truth. You could have said, "Thats somewhat correct, but the moons gravity does play a role in the tides but only when it is directly over head or farthest from the particular body of water, ie; High and low tides"...OR WHATEVER. See how easy that was?

I agree but I think some would say that is just "coincidence" (which I dont think is true)

I do little experiments too and there is always that one person who will say that I need to do it thousands of times (compared to my dozens or hundreds) and all my work is nothing but waste...I agree, if it works for you and it seems to be a reoccurring "coincidence" that provides for good results, than GO FOR IT!!

See! Now this is a great example of civil communication!! I could not have said it better myself;)

I think your onto something. I think some people believe that "planting by the moon", is the end all to planting but I do believe you are right by saying that, its probably not just when the moon is ripe, but alot of other weather factors that come into play with the moon (and sun) being a guide. I do believe that the earth and moon acts as magnets towards one another and the moon wants to pull anything on earth towards it, so maybe it does help sprouts grow good? Not to mention the way to moon and sun change the shape of the earth;)

I dont plant by the moon but I do enjoy this topic.

Working 100% of the time ....

This is Pilgrim ... and she ain't the horse that you rode in on.

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc5dfdcab.jpg

Piedmont SC? Ye were not born here so I assume? I also presume that ye have dug few, if any, holes for fence posts.

I assume that ye have little to none experience in anything outside of "theory" ... willing to be considered irrational if ye care to go there.

I know a good cook. She makes a fantastic pot roast. Her loving husband asked her why she cut a piece off each end of the roast and set the two pieces on top of the main piece, side by side. She responded, "Tradition, that is how my Mother always did it, but I don't know why." So, at a family get together, he asked his Mother-in-Law, " When you make a pot roast, why do you cut a piece off each end and put it on top?" She thought about it a minute and told him, " Because it is a tradition, my Mother always did it that way." So, a while later, he had the opportunity to talk with his wife's Grandmother, asking about this "tradition". She looked a bit surprised and told him, " I never had a pan big enough for a whole roast, so I had to trim the ends off for it to fit." So it turns out this tradition was just a shortage of pans. Sometimes we need to examine the things we do to see if they have a real purpose.
Observe the signs of the zodiac, live by your horoscope, farm by the Almanac. You say it works, I say it is pure fiction. You can't prove it works and I can't convince you that it doesn't.

lol. I'm certainly from SC. I've dug plenty of holes for fence posts. None of them wabble and I didn't read any signs.

I spend a lot of time outside. For a number of years, I worked a night shift. I observed the moon inch across the sky from east to west. But, most nights I didn't notice the moon much at all. Generally that was due to some form of cloud cover. But, when a strong high pressure front came through, there would be clear skies all night. That is when the moon really stood out. I might not even be aware what the moon phase was, but on a clear night it was noticeable. But any time the sky is clear like that, the warmth of the day escapes and the cold sets in. Nearly every summer frost came when the sky was clear. If the moon was full, it was beautiful.

I think the temperature data is available, so would be easy to correlate all nights between May 30 and September 30 that had frost with the phase of the moon. Let us know what your data shows.

"I can't convince you that it doesn't." ... then ye argue because????

Throw out the data ...I planted this on this date because the signs said to and I got ....

Over the years, I starved to death while ignoring the wisdom of those that saw/witnessed/survived ...

Seriously pondering the basis of this stance ... experience or assumption?

So, let's see if I've got this right. Those that oppose your viewpoint or refute your claim would be remiss if they didn't prove their point, but those that agree with you are fine with, " Grandma did it, it is good enough for me, I don't have to explain the unexplainable, but I refuse to stand idly by while you express your belief." Just trying to get the ground rules set.

LOL, but ya'll also like mustard based BBQ sauce so that leaves more to ponder ;)

Tried it or not ( signs)? Documented results? Data to back up your discern? Generations swear by it .... what ya got to prove them wrong?

So, you teach your children not to bite by biting them?

You may have felt the reply was rude, but to be rude back doesn't bring the discussion back to civil social discourse, does it?

It ain't like that. Generations have survived by these beliefs - there is no dispute there for we exist today .... ye seek to disprove that which ye have not had to learn nor rely on. History did not show maters available in NE from Mexico ...

Ye can comfortably chomp on them today if you wish and dismiss the history that brought forth today.

And of course, there is
Ecclesiastes 3:1-22

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;


If not by the signs, what would be the biblical time to plant?


It can definitely go deeper than "I do not believe"


Again, history vs lackadaisical ( for lack of definitive proof contrary to historical preservation - survival of those that practiced the attacked practices ... being proof in and of itself)


Again, I have not documented enough instances for proof ... but I sincerely respect history and would never attempt to disprove it without being able to show my reasoning .... your reasoning is??? Personal doubt?


Have at it ... sincerely hope that that goes well for you.

I have raised four children ... two are teachers, one is a nurse and the other is a preacher.

My kids were raised to respect others and do their best to help others ( as their career choices attest) .... but they were also taught to respect that which they feel and not to shy away when one without knowledge tells another the way they should go.

Proof is one thing, opinions another.

It's easy... a time to plant is after the last frost. A time to pluck up is after the first frost. Ta-da

Now if you're gonna get all biblical. You should know what the bible says regarding supersitions!

1 Timothy 4:7
Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

I hope you find this one of particular value to you.

Deuteronomy 4:19
And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

How bout some sciences and such?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...oongarden.html

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, some of us are willing to accept what data shows but none is forthcoming, from either the believers or the skeptics.

I came to this thread willing to be shown that planting by the signs works. I also came to this thread willing to be shown that planting by the signs is meaningless.

So far, I've seen people who believe, people who claim to have seen it, and also people who think it's a waste of time... along with some like me that had hoped to develop a more reasoned opinion. The skeptics haven't shown evidence that it doesn't work (data). But the believers haven't shown evidence that it does work (data).

I will agree that there is a lot in this world that we cannot explain. And I doubt there is any among us that can adequately explain HOW something as simple as gravity works. But we can demonstrate it, day in and day out, without exception, without fail. We know the effects of it, some of us a little too well. We even have mathematical formulas to help us quantify what effects it will have upon us and our stuff.

It's just hard for me to believe that no one has had the time or resources to put out some hard data. Surely, SOMEONE is anal enough to do some real research that produces real data. :/

planting by the signs
 

We close threads according to the signs and the signs indicate this one is getting pretty close. Please keep discussion civil.

I live in zone 9 and you live in zone 5. The moon is the same for both of us. We should move in sync and do things at the same time?

Observe the signs of the zodiac, live by your horoscope, farm by the Almanac. You say it works, I say it is pure fiction. You can't prove it works and I can't prove to you that it doesn't.

Fixed it for ya .

Exactly ... "For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;"

Everything that ye have provided hurts your stance because it contradicts the other .... your stance is that the scripture is wrong? Ye have certainly cited even more reasons to ponder yourself being wrong. Ye have cited nothing that denies "the season" ... only instances that define incompetence/warnings in the case of promoting their own thoughts.

Ill say it again.
When I was around 6 or so, I stood outside the hog shed while dad, granddad, and uncle Milt caught and cut small pigs. Grandpa was living with us then is why we had so many. I was way too little to be of any use sop I just wanted to han around with the men.
They had caught and curt a couple, when dad handed one out to me and told me to watch it. It was bleeding and would die. Then they cut another with the same result. Grandpa asked dad if he had checked the almanac before starting this. Dad worked weekdays, and this was a Sat, and he had the time to do it then. Grandpa said lets go up to the house and get an almanac and see what sign it is. Dad was hacked I could tell. They went up to the house and mom made coffee, and found an almanac. Grandpa read it cause, likely dad was too dumb to read it. Same as me, OFA. Grandad said that the sign had changed at 10 00 thereabouts and went into a bad sign. He found a good sign and said wed do it then. Dad was mad, but he didn't say anything around granddad.

I don't think we had any other trouble when they cut the rest. I wasn't around for it, but im sure I would have heard about it if they had lost some more. By the way, the 2nd pig lived, but was a runt,

"If not by the signs, what would be the biblical time to plant?"

Either when the oak leaves are the size of a squirrel's ear or when the soil has warmed sufficiently and we are passed the average last frost date. Biblically? That would be Spring. The time to plant is Spring. If you intend to believe that the Bible was telling you to plant by the Farmers Almanac, then the time to die would be controlled by the same?

Either when the oak leaves are the size of a squirrel's ear or when the soil has warmed sufficiently and we are passed the average last frost date.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if in an average year all those things corresponded nicely .

As ye see fit Mate. If ones positon can not be upheld in a non-cursing discussion, then one has no reason to post eh?

If censorship is granted such a leeway as to define how one is to feel, then the effort is rendered useless and surely not worthy of complying if one must deny their own feelings.

Their fault or mine ... irrelevant as it remained civil amongst those that replied.

Best Wishes to all. I wish ye all the best

"Generations have survived by these beliefs - there is no dispute there for we exist today " Simple as that? We owe the survival of the human species to the Farmers Almanac? Totally indisputable? Could you entertain the thought, for just a moment, that lots more people survived without planting and butchering by the signs? The very opening post was about a person that swore my the Almanac, but hadn't realized that it was a back issue and all the days didn't match up for this year, yet she wouldn't give it up. Seems that is a common emotion among true believers in the Farmers Almanac.

I decided to do some research on this whole topic, so I called the offices of the Farmers Almanac. They told me it was nonsense, dreamt up for entertainment purposes only. There. Does that settle it once and for all?:rolleyes:

Do I want you to be for or against the subject and who am I censoring? HT has a fairly firm be nice rule.

I think you and others are talking about two different things.

Some people are saying the moons gravity has an effect on the way plants grow or sprout and others are talking about "planting by signs", as in, " the brown eagle flew west when the sun was setting and a wolf howled, so now its time to plant" type of thing...Two different things.

I think some people are talking about two different things in this thread, like I mentioned in the post above. Some are talking about the planets effects on growing plants while others are talking about "signs to plant by", kind of like your post (example).

Lots of confusion in this thread there is....Maybe the OP can be a little more specific?