pine trees
 

I am new to this forum and just beginning my adventure in making a small self sufficient farm. Today I had a fellow come out to assess taking down some dead pines on a knoll where I want to put my cabin. He suggests putting them down in the open area and burning them. I am wondering if I could use them as terracing material for garden beds, the trees are quite old and big around and about 30+ feet tall. The slope goes down hill from the cabin and I could lay the trees across it then backfill some dirt in. The land there is pretty rocky and needs a lot of help as far as topsoil goes, so it might help my garden spot a lot, then the pines themselves will eventually rot and be compost. I don't know if this is a smart idea or not so wanted to throw it out and see what others with a lot more experience think. I just hate to see a big burn pile in the middle of my future garden area in case they don't get it all burnt, and it will probably take out the wild blackberry patch if they burn it so close to them. Thanks in advance for your ideas.

Pine trees in contact with dirt will rot fairly quickly, maybe last 4 years. I would hesitate to build something with them.

If you build a retaining wall to make a garden terrace be sure to use deadman so it doesn't move.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deadman

How about cutting the pine up and using it for campfires.

I agree with Nimrod. And, don't worry about them burning. When I cleared a section of my property of pines, the dead ones burned so hot, I was able to throw the green ones right on the pile and they burned to ashes as well.

There's a secondary advantage to burning them over your future garden spot as well, by killing a lot of insect eggs and mold spores that might be dormant in the ground there. The pine will rot too fast on the ground to be much use, and might be more useful, burned to ash.

what killed the trees if sothern pine beetle burn or risk the others

Thanks everyone. I had planned to cut up some of the smaller limbs into pieces I could handle and keep for campfires but the big trees he felt would be too much work. I don't know for sure what killed them, there are about 8 tall pines in this area, one whole tree has died and the other is a twin tree (two coming up together) it's other half is alive. The one half did get torn up by a storm about a year ago and I was thinking that might have been its demise. I think from your responses the burning is the better idea. Thanks again

Plus even if the fire does singe some of your wild blckberries, I'm sure they'll return in force.

Fire seems to sterilize the ground and it has taken years for vegetation to recover anywhere I've burned a brush pile. A person may be able to re-inocculate the soil with fresh dirt tilled into the burn area.

I agree. Downed pine rots quickly and it's not much good for anything. One idea though, if you have a ravine or wash out, have them dumped there to slow down erosion for you.

Also, brush piles = habitat for rabbit and other small game animals for future hunting.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Homesteading!

Have you explored hugelculture? Do you know what type of pines they are? The more resinous pines will last several years in contact with soil. I wouldn't do anything fancy, but the logs could certainly be used to establish some modest terraces less than knee high on gently sloping land, especially of some strong rooted perennials are planted along the terraces. Once the logs rot away, the perennials will help hold the shape and prevent erosion. Are you planning on heating with wood? Many advise against it, but I burn a lot of it in my wood stove because it is what I have. Cover it and let it season real well, at least a year, burn it hot, and keep an eye on creosote and it works just fine.

If you're building a home and you want to homestead it makes sense to me you will need some out building. Logs make lumber and cheaper and better than you can buy.Get a portable mill in and stack and cover it till you need it.It's part of homesteading.

Wade

Put em across the hill and throw a little dirt on them. If you're willing to work just a might harder dig a trench for them and cover. This will retain the organic matter and help retain water instead of it running off.

Wastes great soil nutrition. I used to burn my slash/brush till I read about the nutrition in it. The stuff can't be gotten anywhere else. Its part of how the forest works. It never gets artificial chemical fertilizers.

Insects aren't a problem in healthy soil. To get healthy soil requires organic input. Healthy soil isn't likely to wash at least as bad as soil lacking it.

Density. My trees are killing themselves because they're to close to each other. The drought didn't help them much either. I'm working to get at leas 30 feet from trunk to trunk. Got bout 500 to go.

Very good reason not to burn.

Probably not good for dead wood.

It depends on the wood. I don't know a lot about pines but I've cut a lot of dead trees with great lumber in them Each species is different. Walnut and cherry will last about4 years laying on the ground. Oaks will only rot about 1" deep per year, and black locust will last laying on the ground for 25-30 years.I'm digging out locust posts my dad cut and never got taken out of the woods and used. They are in great shape and he got killed 16 years ago!


Wade

Thanks for all the advice. Actually Silvercreek farmer your comments were what I was getting at but you described it a lot better :)

We have the same problem with overcrowding in our timber. We had the state Forrester come in and look our timber over. He advised us to pick a healthy desireable tree, one with a nice trunk and crown and then clear out every thing around it so there was 20 feet between trees. We can drop 30 trees and not notice any difference in the way the timber looks in the target area. He also said to remove all Cedar and locust as they are undesirable trees.

Most of the old growth trees were stripped from our timber leaving new growth trees to take over and over crowd.

The neat thing is that if you cut the trees leaving a foot of trunk, the trees will re sprout from the roots and become new growth.

Check with your local conservation dept and your state sponsored forester.

If these are really old pines with a large trunk. Then don't worry about them rotting anytime soon. I have one of my land that we took down 12 years ago and the heart is still solid as rock. It was dead when we cut it down. We have several others that have died and fallen or been taken down after they were dead and while the bark has fallen off not much else has happened to them. The smaller limbs will rot quickly, but the trunk will not. It seems as if the heart will actually petrify. They aren't easy to burn either. We have tried several times with one in the pasture. After several large fires, we still have half of the tree. It will take a lot more fires to burn the rest of it. Our trees suffered terribly during the several years of drought we had a couple years ago and then started dying. That might be what happened to yours. They fought for years and finally couldn't fight the oak trees anymore for what little water was available. Pines have shallow roots and so drought hits them hardest. The trunks are useful though and last longer than landscape timbers. We built a large compost area with some of ours. We also built a brush fence on a portion of the back property line to discourage my neighbors dogs from coming over and bothering the horses. The trunk was the base of the fence and we piled dead limbs and yard trash on top. The base/trunk is still solid although the smaller stuff has shrunk, but we always have more of that to pile on top. I would think using them to terrace your garden area would work just fine. Covered with soil they might rot a little faster, but judging from the speed of mine it won't be that fast. Blessings, Kat

One part of considering what you could do is where you are. What is good management in the south east may be the wrong thing in the northwest. What you do in one part of a state may not work as well in another.

Also if you do decide to burn, check the local laws. Open burning in some places requires a permit or is limited to certain times of the year and the fines can be large.