Propane

MO_cows · #**221** 02/10/14, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haley1

do the people who's land the pipelines run across get a cut of the action when the fees for using the pipeline go up?

Depending on the contract signed when the pipeline was put in, the land owners get nothing a lot of the time. We have a natural gas pipeline at the back of our property. The former property owner got paid a nice chunk of change when it was put in, but they didn't get any "royalties" after that, and neither do we.

Allen W · #**222** 02/10/14, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haley1

do the people who's land the pipelines run across get a cut of the action when the fees for using the pipeline go up?

No, not that I've ever heard of.

fordy · #**223** 02/10/14, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen W

No, not that I've ever heard of.

...............landowners get compensated by negotiating a 'damages' amount when the route is surveyed across their property ! , fordy

haley1 · #**224** 02/10/14, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by light rain

And correct me if I'm wrong, but, the Cochin pipeline from Canada will be permanently shut down on April 1, 2014. This pipeline supplies about 40% of Minnesota's propane. The pipeline will change to a pipeline that sends a petroleum product UP to Canada instead. The Star Tribune had an article concerning this. Who makes these decisions? And how will the U.S. compensate for this loss?

Is this pipeline certified for petroleum? I would think different standards for different things

VERN in IL · #**225** 02/10/14, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by light rain

I have some questions. How many pipelines are there in the US and who owns them? I read that propane came into the US on the east coast from foreign country/countries this year, is this true? I think everybody that is physically and/or financially able will be taking any possible steps to prepare for winter in 2014/2015 but those steps vary with each person's ability. What doesn't vary is each person's need to know/understand ALL the factors that went into making this heating season one we'll never forget...

Quote:

Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing and petroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.[citation needed] The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.
After it is produced, North American propane is stored in huge salt caverns. Examples of these are Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta; Mont Belvieu, Texas and Conway, Kansas. These salt caverns were hollowed out in the 1940s,[8] and they can store 80,000,000 barrels (13,000,000 m3) or more of propane. When the propane is needed, much of it is shipped by pipelines to other areas of the United States. Propane is also shipped by truck, ship, barge, and railway to many U.S. areas

There ya have it.

PlicketyCat · #**226** 02/10/14, 05:45 PM

They keep talking about a gas pipeline and processing facility here in AK... I'll believe it when I see it. And even if they did build it, they'd probably export it down south and make us pay extra to bring it back like they do with crude.

It just makes so much more sense to simply burn off the gas released at the oil fields instead. It's not like the locals could use during our 15k+ heating degree days.

Allen W · #**227** 02/10/14, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordy

...............landowners get compensated by negotiating a 'damages' amount when the route is surveyed across their property ! , fordy

The land owner furnishes his own grease, also.

blooba · #**228** 02/11/14, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by light rain

I have some questions. How many pipelines are there in the US and who owns them? I read that propane came into the US on the east coast from foreign country/countries this year, is this true? I think everybody that is physically and/or financially able will be taking any possible steps to prepare for winter in 2014/2015 but those steps vary with each person's ability. What doesn't vary is each person's need to know/understand ALL the factors that went into making this heating season one we'll never forget...

These are the major pipelines across the country. And they are all owned by multiple private companies.
http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/no...pipelines.html

WriterontheHill · #**229** 02/11/14, 06:11 PM

Our company said they would honor our original quote and contract of 1.99 a gallon! We prepaid and should have had two, maybe three fill ups left...but someone at the company never entered our contract info. Thankfully the lady in billing remembered us. We're down to just enough to use for bathing, if we're careful. That's doubling up, family of 7!

City boy husband is eating crow while two maple trunks are sitting in the side yard under a couple feet of snow. This year I'm pretty sure when I say I was ten cords of wood, I'll get it. Your first time hoping that tiny space heater gets you warm while your wife splits the logs you left, then crosses her arms while you sheepishly warm your hindquarters by the fire she built will change your view.

/rant

MichaelZ · #**230** 02/11/14, 06:19 PM

We bit the bullet and ordered propane last week. For hot water only and they let us order only 100 gallons. Cost $3.84 per gallon. I was starting to smell the mercaptan as the hot water heater ran and we were down to about 20 gallons. At least we held out long enough to avoid the $5/gallon prices. Makes me want to look into a wood hot water heater.

PlicketyCat · #**231** 02/11/14, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WriterontheHill

This year I'm pretty sure when I say I was ten cords of wood, I'll get it.

From your lips to God's ears!! I'm in the exact same situation -- 10 cords is not 5, it's not 7 with a pile of downed trees somewhere under the snow on the back acre, it's 10 bucked, split and stacked near the house and preferably covered!

light rain · #**232** 02/11/14, 06:49 PM

WriterontheHill I am happy and relieved that you'll get the lp you need and at a good price! I know that you can breathe a little more deeply and relax. I ordered 200 gallons. Expensive but necessary. I keep thinking about the poster from Iowa that hasn't come back for awhile. I hope she and her husband are somehow getting through this ordeal. It was somewhere bet. -11 and -17 here last night but it is suppose to start warming up during the night. We've got a good load of wood under a tarp(and in a hoop house) and another pile too big to put in the stove that I've got to cut smaller. Been waiting for a little warmer weather to tackle the task. Anyhoo, thank God you'll have you're tank full.

VERN in IL · #**233** 02/11/14, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelZ

We bit the bullet and ordered propane last week. For hot water only and they let us order only 100 gallons. Cost $3.84 per gallon. I was starting to smell the mercaptan as the hot water heater ran and we were down to about 20 gallons. At least we held out long enough to avoid the $5/gallon prices. Makes me want to look into a wood hot water heater.

What you need is a on demand tankless heater, so you don't waste fuel.

oh, warmer weather coming for the weekend, hopefully the coldest nights will end this week *CHEERS*

Win07_351 · #**234** 02/11/14, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haley1

I hope people upgrade insulation and fix air leaks etc this summer, a wise investment

Agreed. I have a fair amount of insulation here, but the house still can get cold.

MichaelZ · #**235** 02/11/14, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

What you need is a on demand tankless heater, so you don't waste fuel.

oh, warmer weather coming for the weekend, hopefully the coldest nights will end this week *CHEERS*

We almost went that route. There were two problems. First, our well water is just over 40F year round - and some on-demands have a tough time getting that cold of water hot. The other problem is our hard water - neighbors and others advised that if we used our hard water that the on-demand system would have problems in a few years. The obvious answer to that is a whole-house softener but we did not have the money for that in addition. Also, at the time, we did not have the electrical service for an electric on-demand. Now, we do have that service.

Right now the solution is a sign taped inside our shower that says "5 MINUTES". That was a fairly cheap fix!

MO_cows · #**236** 02/11/14, 09:30 PM

We are still holding out with electric heaters. The house stays in the mid to upper 60's. This morning we had -6 outside and 68 inside. I can live with that.

The little town we live nearby, the community center is closed til further notice, also the Lion's club. They can't afford propane, either, just have enough heat on to keep the pipes from freezing.

PlicketyCat · #**237** 02/11/14, 09:52 PM

The mini-electric company in the nearby village just threw a rod their A genny, the B genny is out for repairs and the temp back-up is on it's last legs. Folks using their electric space heaters and fan-forced oil heaters and motor-fed pellet stoves are going to be SOL if that goes unless they can afford to get into town for more propane/oil at these crazy prices, have enough cordwood out back for the woodstove, or have their own genny and enough fuel to power their own places. Yikes!!

light rain · #**238** 02/11/14, 10:19 PM

PlicketyCat are you and yours gonna be ok if the electric goes out? You heat with wood but don't require fans, right?

PlicketyCat · #**239** 02/11/14, 11:37 PM

Thanks for the concern. We'll be fine since we're too far from the villages to hook to their grid and have our own system. We heat primarily with woodstove and non-electric assist propane & oil backups. We don't use electricity for anything except light, electronics and power tools (with DC solar freezer for summer).

Unfortunately, there are a lot of older folks in the villages who can't haul wood anymore and have propane, oil or electric heat I hope the power company at least distributes its fuel stores to the customers for their generators if the grid goes down because fuel delivery of any sort out here is $$$$ and not timely in winter (too costly for retirees on fixed income for sure). There are a bunch of us 30-40 somethin's with trucks and chainsaws ready to help bring in & deliver wood for the ill & elderly if it the last generator does kick it.

WriterontheHill · #**240** 02/12/14, 12:02 PM

They'll be here today or tomorrow, 100 gallons at least.

Told City Boy to pull cash from the ATM, there's a man down the road going to benefit from this, if he delivers a load of wood fast.

Hope you're all warm!