Propane

light rain · #**181** 02/06/14, 09:52 PM

And correct me if I'm wrong, but, the Cochin pipeline from Canada will be permanently shut down on April 1, 2014. This pipeline supplies about 40% of Minnesota's propane. The pipeline will change to a pipeline that sends a petroleum product UP to Canada instead. The Star Tribune had an article concerning this. Who makes these decisions? And how will the U.S. compensate for this loss?

davel745 · #**182** 02/07/14, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer

Thank you. I have all three forms of heat, propane, pellets and wood. Up to now propane has been cost effective since I use it for all other heat requiring appliances, normally about 300 gal a year. Cut to length and split standing dead Oak (cutting live Oak is illegal) costs me $250 a cord as at age 73 I am no longer able to go into the forest and get my own.

I am running into the same problem I cant go to the woodlot to get it anymore but I am going to try this spring/summer I want to put up 10 cords. I use propane for cooking and hot water

davel745 · #**183** 02/07/14, 05:04 AM

how in the world are people dealing with this high price? there must be older people freezing. I am trying to get natural gas put in but I am afraid the same thing is going to happen with gas too.

homstdr74 · #**184** 02/07/14, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davel745

I am running into the same problem I cant go to the woodlot to get it anymore but I am going to try this spring/summer I want to put up 10 cords. I use propane for cooking and hot water

We always put up ten cords in our woodshed; this year we've used approximately half of that already. Some years far less, but the reason for the surplus is that there are always going to be years like this one (maybe worse, but let's hope not!)

NorthwoodsMike · #**185** 02/07/14, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by light rain

NorthwoodsMike I went to the electric co. yesterday and discussed heating options. A nice young man(shows my age) spent a long time explaining things to me. If we had a separate meter installed just controlling an electric furnace/boiler the cost would be about .035 cents per kwh. We would have to turn off that electricity between 5pm and 8pm daily. That would be ok for us. If we turned it on during that time period it would be .25 cents per kwh. He was very helpful and encouraged me to come back next week and talk to another person there to explore how we could have an electric boiler and also have the option of still using our propane boiler. We don't have any ductwork in our house.

Lets look at some numbers. With the extra meter, it costs $10.26 per million btu(293x.035) For propane to compete, it would have to cost $0.94/gallon, and that's assuming 100% efficiency!

Depending on setup costs, I would definitely add an electric boiler-in line with your propane one. They aren't very big, and not too expensive either.

Is your heating system open or closed? How many btu is your current boiler?

JoePa · #**186** 02/07/14, 12:20 PM

Explorer - it is illegal to cut a life oak? - is this on your own land? - man that is a lot of BS if you ask me -

Win07_351 · #**187** 02/07/14, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginny63

I prepay 800 gal every year. $1.62 last fall, usually have a carry over. Not this year, paid $4.29 yesterday for min 200 gal.

Somewhere down the line, somebody is profiting heavily from this.

Elie May · #**188** 02/07/14, 02:14 PM

$2.85 a gallon here in Texas - 7 day waiting list. UUGGGGGHHHH!

solsikkefarms · #**189** 02/07/14, 02:20 PM

turned my heat down to 60 in my house so i can stretch my propane.

Have a wood burning furnace in my basement and garage, had to disconnect them for my insurance company. Today i dropped my insurance and will reconnect my wood furnaces.

60 acres of oaks and plenty of downed wood cut and stacked, but cant get to it in 3 feet of snow.

all i can do is laugh and hope my tax return gets here before my propane tank runs out.

jlxian · #**190** 02/07/14, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solsikkefarms

turned my heat down to 60 in my house so i can stretch my propane.

Have a wood burning furnace in my basement and garage, had to disconnect them for my insurance company. Today i dropped my insurance and will reconnect my wood furnaces.

60 acres of oaks and plenty of downed wood cut and stacked, but cant get to it in 3 feet of snow.

all i can do is laugh and hope my tax return gets here before my propane tank runs out.

Fingers crossed you don't need that insurance!

PlicketyCat · #**191** 02/07/14, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solsikkefarms

... plenty of downed wood cut and stacked, but cant get to it in 3 feet of snow.

I'm quite familiar with that situation and feel your pain!

solsikkefarms · #**192** 02/07/14, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlxian

Fingers crossed you don't need that insurance!

me too but it's not like they help anyway.

We had a "wind storm" last year (tornado but it wasn't verified by an official spotter) ripped up two large reinforced concrete block machine sheds, lots of damage trees down everywhere. After 2 months of insurance inspectors running around we got a check for $1,700 to tear down and rebuild them............

20 years of paying premiums without a single claim and that's what you get. Think I'll take my chances. Couldn't even clean up the debris with that check.

solsikkefarms · #**193** 02/07/14, 06:29 PM

According to the EIA website the Weekly Wisconsin Propane costs for the week ending 01/27 was $4.49 a gallon and the week ending 02/03 was $3.945 a gallon. I'm about a week or two out from ordering again and have my fingers crossed it continues to trend downward and I can get it at or below $3.00

That would feel like winning the power-ball after this winter. lol

light rain · #**194** 02/07/14, 08:57 PM

Mike, I hate to hear that you cancelled you insurance. There are some co. in your area, (our area) that will cover 1 woodburner on the property. Also the cheapest price I found for lp in the area is amerigas. I don't know what today's price was but as of last week they would sell to new customers. Like you, we're waiting for prices to come down...

kimmom2five · #**195** 02/08/14, 05:26 AM

My husband just called our insurance to see how it would change our insurance to get a pellet or wood burning stove. They said we could have propane, the pellet or wood stove, it didn't matter, it wouldn't raise our rates any. I don't know if that is because we already have decorative propane logs we never use or what. But I already talked to the stove guy to find out prices.

VERN in IL · #**196** 02/08/14, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by light rain

And correct me if I'm wrong, but, the Cochin pipeline from Canada will be permanently shut down on April 1, 2014. This pipeline supplies about 40% of Minnesota's propane. The pipeline will change to a pipeline that sends a petroleum product UP to Canada instead. The Star Tribune had an article concerning this. Who makes these decisions? And how will the U.S. compensate for this loss?

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) makes the final decisions.

Lazy J · #**197** 02/08/14, 10:39 AM

FERC was just ordered to open the pipeline from Texas to Propane.

VERN in IL · #**198** 02/08/14, 11:12 AM

Quote:

FERC Forces Private Pipeline Owner To Deliver Propane

Concerned about increasingly severe propane shortages, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) today ordered a pipeline owner to prioritize deliveries of propane from Texas to markets in the Northeast and Midwest.
To do so, FERC invoked its emergency powers under the Interstate Commerce Act for the first time in its history.
The order, which FERC issued late Friday, instructs Enterprise Products Partners LP (EPD) to allocate “available capacity” for propane shipments on its TE pipeline, which runs from Mont Belvieu, TX to points in the Midwest and Northeast.
“We’re mindful of the emergency situation that has developed in parts of the country where bitter cold weather has created problems for consumers who need supplies of propane,” said acting FERC Chairman Cheryl LaFleur. “The problem is acute enough that we feel it is important for us to take this step.”
Under the Interstate Commerce Act, FERC has authority to give directions for preference or priority in transportation, embargoes or movement of traffic during a national emergency.

Hmmm, yeah the prices are high and availability low, but an EMERGENCY? 1st time in history they used emergency powers? Can someone say over reaching Government!!!!

Quote:

Woman Dies in North Dakota with No Propane to Heat Home
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3313632.shtml

Being single sucks during winter, too many "three dog nights" this year!!

NorthwoodsMike · #**199** 02/08/14, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

Hmmm, yeah the prices are high and availability low, but an EMERGENCY? 1st time in history they used emergency powers? Can someone say over reaching Government!!!!

You said it...unbelievable. I'd love to pay less for propane, but there is this little thing called freedom that matters more.

light rain · #**200** 02/08/14, 05:02 PM

NorthwoodsMike and Vern I understand your apprehension and agree about fear of govt. overreaching in private business. But I have a couple of questions. Do you think the propane suppliers in the USA have the right to sell to the highest bidder no matter what country they live in? And what do you say to American citizens who will lose their homes or their livelihood with farm animals dead or weakened by lack of heat? Just to make it clear that my opinions are my opinions and not necessarily the opinions of any other family members...