ugh - looking for building code advice
 

Hi all,

I tried searching around on here, but had a hard time coming up with too much. I'm sure this has been asked before, so please forgive me for the repetition.

My husband and I are in the process of planning our home, and we're running into code difficulties. It seems like everything we want to do isn't allowed. We want an outhouse or composting toilet rather than septic, we want a smaller house less than the required 700 sqft, we don't want running water (haven't even tried asking that yet), and don't want electricity. We're still in the planning phases, but boy are we getting push-back on anything we've brought up so far.

It feels like we will spend an entire year and thousands of dollars above what it would otherwise take to build our home - just for the sake of following codes only to end up with a house that doesn't fit us as well as the non-code-conforming ones we dream up. It's blasted frustrating to have to waste additional time, funds, resources, just to fulfill a set of building codes based on certain assumptions (I'm guessing that to have a home with a separate kitchen, bathroom, living area, bedroom(s), and hallways you probably need 700 sqft - but we don't want half of those things).

Has anyone else been here before? Looking for any words of advice or encouragement.

thanks for the read.

This is Wi and its codes are pretty strong compared to other places. I do not believe you can build a Home and have a so called Outhouse not in WI. You can by it being a hunting shack but not a full time residence. I can ask my Dad as he was a plumbing inspector for many years. I also have a Uncle that has a plumbing business. But in WI codes are codes
And I doubt very much that you can have a permanent residence home without "Running Water" either". Not in WI. As far as size I have not heard that one but it also makes sense as well in WI as building codes are pretty demanding in WI. And I doubt very much that you can built New without electricity without making sure you have Solar, Wind BUILT at the same time as the house is. Like my Dad has always said, he would like to see NO septic tanks allowed at ALL in the state but have EVERYONE connected to a municipal septic system. And Positively NO Outhouses. This is not the 1880's anymore.

And this is in Wisconsin? You will not be able to change the codes. They think they are doing you a favor, keeping you safe from yourself. I think 97% of building codes are valid and there for good reason. If you want to build said house you probably need to build it in a less regulated area.

I haven't built a house, but have dealt with inspectors a jillion times. They are just doing their jobs, but man they can be annoying and really make you think you are making a giant mistake. I am a contractor, and recently brought a house back from a complete disaster, having to do things like, regravel my drive way, and scraping loose paint from the ceiling in my garage, a long with a list of 75 other things. BTW I got this list after reading the regulations and I thought I would be able to pass the occupancy permit no problem. 6 weeks later and about $2k later they let me move into my house.

Short story, your are going to have to jump through the hoops.

The building codes may end up standing in the way of your dream but you might try going around them. You don't say what kind of area you live in, how much land you have and what relationships you have with your neighbors. Variances can be granted but they take a lot of work and planning. Get your ideas and plans together. Put in writing how this will be feasable, it helps if you can give real world examples of it being done successfully before. Lobby your neighbors before taking it to any local board. Address their concerns rationally, not emotionally. When you have all your ducks in a row, including community support, file for a variance. Expect to fail or at best not to get everything you want. Good luck.

We built our own house. In the areas with a square footage requirement, they are way larger than 700 sf. These are usually to keep mobile homes out, but they just make the MH bigger. I don't know of any area that would let you have an outhouse. However, I know the Amish families in our area have a septic system, but build the bathroom separate from the house. Would you consider building a modern system instead of an outhouse? Would cost a lot more.

Even if you could build the way you want, if you have children you will be told you must have running water.

What sort of restriction do they have on temporary structures and vehicles. I have watched a lot of youtube videos about tiny houses. The way some get around codes is to build their small house on a trailer base and register it as a vehicle. You still wouldn't be able to have an outside, but you could have a composting toilet.

Saw an article a few years ago about a couple building in Hawaii. They originally wanted a tiny house, but codes would not allow it. So they drew up plans for a huge, two-story home with a 1-car detached garage with bathroom and got it approved.

Turns out that after they built their "garage" they didn't have the money to build the house. I'm not sure if they petitioned to move in to their garage or what, but they ended up getting a certificate of occupancy for it. If I remember correctly, the "garage" looked a LOT like their original tiny house plans!

I do not think there is a state or county that still allows/approves an outhouse. As a teenager in the 1970's I dug several out house pits and moved the ou house or built an outhouse to go over it.

Now days you need a sealed vault that has to be pumped out or install a septic tank and lateral field that you place a outhouse on top of.

Most states now define shower water, dish water, laundry water and toilet waste as sewage and require all of it to be treated. The grey water cannot be just put out on to the ground or allowed to go into a stream.

The population density is such that in order to keep the ground water from being contaminated the treatment of all waste water is needed. It is not a bad thing.

If for some reason you really want an out house check with your local county . Do they have routine maintenance inspections of the system after it is built ? If so you most likely cannot add an out house. No follow up inspections then build a normal septic system under inspection and comply with all rules. After completion take the riser off the tank and put a small building /outhouse over top of it.

All sewage goes into the tank and gets treated same as it would be coming from the house. The odor in the outhouse will be very strong and I would not do it but it could be done.

As to the square footage that you could ask a variance on and get it granted. If they insist the house have electricity put it in makes the home easier to sell if you ever decide to sell. Just because the wires are there dose not mean you have to use it.

Read the building permit laws for your location and talk with the building department about what you want to do would be my recommendation.

Maine still allows permited outhouses 'primitive waste disposal systems' course the $500 permit will cost you more then the outhouse

Are you wanting to do this on principle or because you don't have the money for any of it? I found making a plan and explaining it to the building inspector, getting him to understand my reasons, worked for me. I knew I would have to put in the septic system from the start but I got to do it my way. A tank and 1 short leach line, grey water separated. No washing machine or dishwasher. I do have a gravity fed spring so I was already doing running water. Wood stove and heat jacket was OK with him. Gutters are required here but with the water collection he was good with my plan. A lot of it is OK if you submit a complete plan from the start. Don't know all the details for you....James

Do you do a lot of primitive camping? Just wondering if you've lived in the way you describe - it might be a steep learning curve. Especially with no running water or electricity in the WI winters, hauling water over ice/snow and of course the enchanting
trip to the outhouse when it's -20 can become quite enlightening.

Easy fix find a cheaper and warmer State to build in :grumble:

Ya really as WI is pretty tight on their regulations as to what a person can and can not do in the state, even if it is their own land does't matter. I sure wouldn't want to live downstream, or down wind form somebody that wants to do as they please. And that is why WI has strong rules as to what and how things should be done. My Dad sure has closed a few companies down until they comply with said rules and regulations.

Lots of times i agree with you but this time i call bunk .It is WI opinion on how things should be done backed with the guns of the local Gestapo . I see many Amish houses no electric no water no codes and not a smell no where unless it is horse poop . Bet WI has a horse code too. :eek:

I've read that outhouses actually impact the groundwater and nearby surface waters less than a septic system because there is less water movement from an outhouse to transport the nutrients to the waters. But it is still site specific.

I would find a state with out quite as many codes.

*sigh* spent a long time writing up a reply and my login timed out so I lost it. Here I go again:

Yes, we do in fact want to live this way. dh has lived w/o electricity, running water, and an outhouse. Same here (not together, it was before we got married). I lived in a developing country in a one-room building with a bed, chair, and very small night stand. There was electricity for a couple of hours at night, and all cooking was over a fire. I loved it - it felt like it fit, there's no other way of explaining it. We both heavily prefer to do things ourselves and live simply. For example I've biked exclusively for the past year and a half, including commuting through Wisconsin winters (all of last year, and partway through this year), and 40 mi to visit my parents, and 90+ miles to visit dh (then fiance). That -20 degree day this month and the "oh-my-so-cold-everyone-stay-inside-you-might-die" days a few weeks ago I biked through and was just fine. I thoroughly enjoy doing transportation "the slow way" where I'm physically doing it myself. It's invigorating and delightful to me to get myself from one place to another by the power of my own legs. We both feel the same way about almost all "basic tasks." It fits us, for some bizarre, stupid reason we're wired this way and finding that we don't fit too well because of it.

they have restrictions on mobile homes/campers - $500 permit and only allowed on developed land (driveway, electric, private sewage).

we actually aren't trying to make a stand for environmental awareness, or green living or whatever. We just want to live simple and impact our land as little as possible. But really, I guess if it comes down to it, I'm baffled as to why we can't live with a light footprint and minimize the amount of manufactured goods that go into our home. We live simply and try to create as little waste as possible, so the type of house we're expected to build goes against our fundamental approach to life.

And -- well we can afford to build a small home, put in a well, build a driveway, build an outhouse, and all the associated permits, etc. We can't afford to build a bigger house and we wouldn't be able to use all the same building materials we want to for a larger house because they would be out of our price range. We bought the land out-right, and won't build a house any other way.

as for it being irresponsible to not use septic (as a few seem to indicate), we have every intention of doing things right, we will not pollute the land around us, heck it would be contrary to all of our other efforts to minimize our impact on the land.

Thanks - this was encouraging and helpful. Would you be willing to share more about what you did? We really are trying to work with the township, though we're just starting the process. We're hoping they're willing to work with us.

most Amish in our area have running water, but no electricity. :)

We have had to change our plans because of codes. But Septic & water in most places are almost a must. That is environmental & most States are not going to let that slide. Composting toilets are fine if you use them regularly. If not the bad bacteria take over the good & you end up with a stinking mess. But it is all hoops & money.

In the County we are in 480 Sq Ft for a house in min. But without a expensive fight septic is required & has to be approved & final inspection by County. Permits were required also. Our septic was $6000 for everything.
But the cost with plans, permits, material/labor costs. Even as an owner/builder, it looks as if we can get a 600 sq ft manufactured home set on property with County approval cheaper than the house. There is $2000 for permits & drawings/plans to clear the County process.
But as a former licensed contractor there are always hoops to jump through. You learn it is cheaper in the long run to jump through them than to ignore them. They almost always win.
The guy in back of us tried doing his own thing & almost finished when someone from the County saw it & they came in & shut everything down. He basically had to tear it down or vacate the property. So it sits empty.
But having codes has its up side I believe. Even if it ----es me off sometimes that I have to do it their way.

this young lady seems not to have run into the same problems you have, she is in Arkansas.
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/gen...ing-newby.html

I realize that moving to a different part of the country would be the "easy" solution (ignoring the fact that we own land here out-right and don't elsewhere), but we aren't looking to move that far from family. Plus we like our little chunk of land. :-)

Also - we will be doing everything via permits. It would be most incredibly stupid for us to do otherwise, and I'm really more of a rule follower type, or at least a finagle within the rules type. ;)

My B-I-L is a builder so we used him as a go between as they ask who does what and if they know them they almost don't look or ask any more questions. The plumber is/was his S-I-L. But we did all the work except insulation was cheaper to hire out. It cost us less than just the insulation with the builder discount. All septics have to be at least 1000 gals but the leach line calls for 1 line for each bedroom, 1 bedroom 100 ft of line. Why no running water, it can be done with a small 12v pump unless the well is deep, then how would you get it out of the ground. If you haul water I would set up for pressure anyway. Draw up your plan as required and turn it in, get the red marks, then work with them to get each one eliminated....James

Amish can not build new houses without having electric installed to code. They may not have it hooked up but it has to be there. I believe that plumbing would be the same but I am not 100% on that.
In addition to state codes there are all sorts of township specific things. Ours does not allow any single wide mobile homes, another allows them to be put in but must be no older than 10 years when installed.
In our county there are no more standard septic systems allowed. Everything is either mound or tanks and if you have a standard system it must be updated if you sell the place.

@ jwal10 - thank you very much for the additional information! Your posts have helped me to see approaching the zoning/inspectors more rationally and less emotionally (not necessarily my strong suit). I think someone else mentioned that as well.

as for why hauling water? For no other reason than that we think we want to.

I wasn't suggesting you move to ARK, just maybe she has some pertinent experience and can make some suggestions.

I hated hauling water and was very glad to get hooked up to rural water. Well water in my immediate area usually has natural gas and strong sulfur smell. Winter time was when I hated it the most nothing worse in my opinion than to fight frozen hoses/ valves.

The rainwater from a very a small house was not enough to keep my cistern full during the winter and in late August.


Amish houses in my county have to follow all the rules as any other house which means all they need is a septic permit. We still use a lot of lagoons. Some Amish families have dug theirs by hand. Home owner can do all the work themselves but must have a permit and follow installation guidance from the state and have inspections of the work done. There is no inspection of houses built in the county of plumbing in the house, no inspection of the electric or anything else. No minimum size, no running water and no electric required in fact nothing but the septic system is required.

Some think this is good yet others have complained because they bought a house that was not properly built. Houses that split apart at the roof ridge line, no chalking/ chinking between the logs of a log home, cracked foundations after one year.

If only you were born 200 years ago.

Talk to the Amish folks by you. Am not sure if they have outhouses, but the couple of families that I have stayed with did have inside bathrooms. If it's an older community, they might not...... A lot of them are going with inside running water too but they might be able to help you. Maybe you could've checked that out before you bought there..... Just saying.....

Southwestern New Mexico, I have built three major buildings including a house, and each time the assessor dropped by when the building was nearly complete and asked me how big it was for the tax records, thanked me and left.

I was concerned about the septic for the new house and got the guidelines from the state EPA and studied all the rules and regs in the book, then flipped to the last page that had the "penalties" listed for non-conforming systems. Maximum penalty allowed by law per family........$100. I did a GOOD job installing it, but stopped worrying about permits and rules......Joe