Another Wolf
 

killed in Missouri. There have been several killed here the past few years, usually mistaken for coyotes. This time it was a female, so the old "young male looking for territory" thing doesn't work. All were DNA marked to be from the Great Lakes region, probably drifted down the Mississippi River drainage area.

I fervently hope every one that shows up in Missouri is mistaken for a coyote and promptly shot. I would absolutely hate it if they were to become established here. They would not only decimate our wildlife populations, especially the deer herd like they have in the western states, after which they would become livestock killers, all with full federal protection.

First small scale hunting season in northern Michigan last fall. Maybe a little hunting pressure will push them into states that don't allow hunting them and have an abundance of back yard pets...... Yum,,,,,poodle.....

When I saw your title, I was hoping you were asking for another one. We have plenty here that you could have.:)

We're starting to get more Mountain Lions and Bears here to.

big rockpile

I saw a cougar here last year. The state's website says there's not any. The ranger that came out to my house said that's what they're supposed to tell folks. They weren't reintroduced, these are traveling. I took a picture of the print and got a sample of spoor for them...all of which they haven't replied to me about.

Ranger at my house flat out told me, "Yep. That's from a cougar" about the poop.

We haven't heard of any wolves, but the darn coyotes are such a problem the DEC had to clear a pack out over the summer.

I wish the wolves here would decimate our deer population ...even just a little. We have an abundance of both. As pretty as the deer are - they are nothing but rats on stilts as far as my garden is concerned.

What part of Missouri? Hadn't heard about that yet, guessing it's the eastern part of the state?

Here is the story:

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/14...confirmed.html

One more emotional rant rather than a discussion backed up by facts.

Great. Bad enough worrying about cougars when I'm in the timber. Now I have to worry about wolves that aren't supposed to be there also.

Couple of years back I saw a yote on the neighbors ridge while out deer hunting. Darned thing was as big as a GSD. They are a real problem around us.

This is just another reason to go out in the woods armed.

Just pray the Feds don't go and stick them on the endangered species list like they've done here. Then the problem really gets bad.

WWW

We just talked about this. Not too long ago a wolf was killed in Hart county Ky. BIL has seen them in Eastern ky and we were wondering if they were ever native here. Grampa talked about "painters" (panther, meaning cougar) being around when he was a young. Nobody of the oldtimers ever mentioned a wolf. Bear and cougar, yes. (Grampa was born 1868).

No decimation of any deer herds here in Idaho.

Big time debate topic here in the northwest - kill or no kill? We have them around our place once in a while. No problems so far. We have electric mesh fencing around chicken and duck pens, don't let our dog roam alone and always carry just in case. I'd worry if we had livestock though.

Pff. We could use some wolves around here. A lot less scary than a puma and given the very serious problems with deer and other herbivores large and small destroying crops and how the state can't control their populations at all, well... Besides which, wolves kill and drive out coyotes which are a far bigger threat to most livestock and are a WAY bigger threat in the suburbs.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the emotional rant^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



The introduced wolves are not the native Canis Lupus Irremotis but a much larger non native subspecies, probably Canis Lupus Occidentallis. Calling this mess a re-introduction is an outright lie, this was simply the govt. forcing the will of a loud, litigious minority upon the most affected people, who for the most part, wanted nothing to do with this abomination.


The Elk herd has been reduced by over 40%. In addition to the adult elk a huge majority of elk calves born are killed by wolves, and more calves are aborted by cows chased and harassed by wolves. The fact is wolves have so decimated the Elk herd in parts of Idaho that Idaho Fish and Game found it neccessary to hire someone to thin out the wolves. They have also impacted the deer herd.



Fact is about 60% of wolves examined carried an infestation of the Echinococcosis Granulosis tapeworm the causative agent of Alveolar Hydatid disease. The disease presents in the form of cysts in the brain, liver and lungs of the victims, is treatable mainly by surgery and can be fatal.



Fact is this disease is spread by the tapeworm eggs found in wolf scat. Any warm blooded animal, including humans, dogs, cats and ungulates can contract this disease by direct contact or by air currents spreading the eggs to grass and bushes. Increasing numbers of infected deer, moose, elk and cattle are being found.



Fact is I've actually seen up close what these killers did to a flock of about ready to lamb ewes. A pack entered a friends fenced pasture on his property, killed his 3 guard dogs, ran his horse, which he never saw again, through the fence and killed at least 110 ewes and probably the other 20 or so he couldn't find/account for. These poor ewes were mercilessly slaughtered, throats ripped out, guts and unborn lambs pulled out. This was wanton sport killing at it's worst. And yes, it was a horiffically emotinal event. I was literally ill, to the point of vomiting, extremely stressful.



I suspect you will reject all of this because it doesn't fit with your radical wolf loving philosophy. And you appear to care nothing about the finincial ruin brought upon the folks trying to make a living.

Wolves have been confirmed in Illinois as well. A female wolf was captured and released in Whiteside county not far from here.

They reintroduced red wolves in eastern NC some years a go and now the wolves are breeding with coyotes . now they want to ban shooting either one of them now in the eastern counties. they all need to be thinned out. you can shoot the coyotes in the rest of nc. if i read it right.

There was a reason the settlers wiped out wolves. What is the reason they are being brought back??

Wendle, you must be near me. They shot a cougar close by also. it had holed up in a corncrib on an occupied (people and livestock) farm. There was also a wolf shot near here a couple of years ago. DNR said nope, not a wolf so the guy says, I'll get it stuffed. All of a sudden, DNR needed to confiscate it. A wolf was hit by a car and killed about 40 miles south of here at Christmas time.

65284

#16 - now that's a factual discussion - nothing like what you posted before and I can accept most of what you posted. - ya' kinda lost it there at the end though.

Got any links backing all this up? Like the elk herd reduction by 40 percent because of wolves, and if so..were the elk herds overly populous for their environment? And not links bypro- hunting lobby sources? Have to confess I've never even heard the one about our deer herds being decimated.

I live with wolf packs nearby here in northern Idaho surrounded by National Forest and we raised sheep for years with LGD's and never lost any stock at all. Coyotes and cougars have always been a bigger worry.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...-about-wolves/

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...1#.UtistCTgJmA

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...f-illustration

tapeworm in wolves:
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com...62c5e4a51.html

And what were those elk herds and deer herds doing to non livestock farmers? We have already established that no matter how much whining there is about a lack of game, human hunters cannot control deer and elk populations effectively in most areas. There are just too many. You have to have deliberate and heavilly protested culls for HALF the population of deer every year or two in areas with no predators to maintain levels that are appropriate for herbivores population density. Otherwise they not only destroy most native plants, allowing invasive species to take hold, they destroy crops and pasture too.
Humans didn't only wipe out grey wolves. They wiped out bison, beavers, a dozen species of parrots, birds of paridise, cheetahs, wild horses, elephants, bald eagles, salmon.... We have almost permanently killed a HUGE number of animals from poaching. I am all for legal hunting and the removal of individual animals and packs that cause harm to people... I would love them to start removing the SIX buck deer that live on my street and attack people every fall and I am filing for a FWS permit to relocate a hawk that keeps killing my chickens. But by the theory of "they were hunted near extinction, let them be extinct" (there was a reason settlers wiped out wolves?) the world would be a much sadder place.

Id also very much like to know... Were the sheep killings confirmed being done by a wolf pack? There are a huge number of livestock deaths wrongly attributede to wolves each year. If it was SEEN to have been done by a wolf pack, why weren't they shot on sight? Just saying that it sounds a lot more like a pack of coyotees or feral dogs than a wolf pack. Sorry for the loss of the sheep, though.

The sheep killings at DD's friends were on surveillance camera, right at the ranch buildings, the DS's friend lost sheep at summer pasture, with LGD's and herders with the sheep. This was on both sides of the ID-OR border. The elk in wilderness areas, where there are no farmers or gardens are being decimated when the wolves move in. The wolves are doing very well, they have spread 100's of miles from the areas they were introduced. They are turning into a problem that will only get worse if it's not addressed. It's easy to sit in some city, miles from the wolf release areas and think how nice it will be to hear wolves howl even if you never go near them. It's another thing to have them move out of the parks and on to your ranch.

The deer problem has been caused by urbanization of so much land. The deer and coyotes do well in suburbia, lots to eat and no hunting.

I do live in an area with wolves with no problems with them and the elk are doing quite nicely. I have read and heard from wildlife biologists that the elk population has dropped from other factors including wolf depradation but in places like Yellowstone, they were overly populous. I have no issues with taking out problem packs or thinning the numbers but I do have an issue with fallacies about the wolf reintroduction and the idea that because we drove them to extinction in an area, we should keep them gone.

The deer overpopulation is also due to the lack of predators taking them.

You live in the affected area Lisa, as I do, and it makes a difference. I have no trouble with some wolves around, it's when they do too well they cause problems. Right now we have more trouble here with poachers than wolves-actually no trouble with wolves-so it's a mote point. Balancing things in nature is not easy, hopefully we will learn by our mistakes!

I am a sheep owner and here is what I know about sheep: everything is a predator to them because they are dumb. They will line up to be killed. And they are killed by coyotes and cougars and wild dogs and tame dogs and occasionally wolves. Even foxes kill lambs. The sheep owners here seem to be the most rabid about killing anything and everything that sets foot on their property. On the one hand I understand because you own the dumbest livestock known to man and you have to work 10 times harder to protect it than any other type of livestock. But the reality is the problem is not the predators it is the sheep. And the way large flocks of sheep are managed out West especially.
In most parts of the country we need more predators because we are over run with deer and wild hogs and other species that destroy fields and farmland and gardens. We do not have enough hunters anymore to take all of the problem species out and keep them at manageable levels. Ask a farmer who has seen his farm destroyed by wild hogs if he would like a few wolves and I will bet he will say yes please! Someone is always going to lose something, the goal has to be creating a manageable system that helps the maximum while hurting the minimum.

Wolves kill, grizzly bears kill, cougars kill. I live here in Wyoming where all three are within a baseball throw of my front door. They run cows and sheep on the national Forest land that is on the other side of my fence.

Yes, wolves kill elk , so what! Do you known that we feed elk all winter long here? There are several hundred elk on a refuge with in 1/2 a mile of my house that get fed all winter long. We are feeding them because we have built on their habitat and there are now to many for the vacant lands. So the wolves get some of those extra elk. What is the big deal with that.

Yes they get a some stock but those ranchers get compensated. Real life is ugly and wolves are part of it. I guess we should kill off all the grizzlies and the big cats as well.

Not too far. I live in Mercer county and my brother lives in Whiteside. I heard about the cougar there. We have had cougars around here too. I'm glad for my lgds.

This is the kind of paranoia and misunderstanding that is so dangerous, yet so unfortunately prevalent in our society. A shame.

The solution to predators on your land? SSS. (Shoot, shovel, shut up)
The solution to too many deer on your land? SES (Shoot, eat, shut up)

So you want to "understand" the wolves?

And have you had predators or too many deer on your land?

Pretty sure he was talking about the OP's misunderstanding of the facts, as in, WHAT deer depopulation in western states.

I'm not sure... I hope to be on my land first thing a week from tomorrow.

Well you may find that fencing, barns, LGD's etc. are a better bet at keeping predators away from your stock than banging away with a gun. Do you even have stock? If not, what are you worried about predators for?

Don't bother posting any links, 65284, you were an eyewitness and THAT doesn't have any effect.
Matt. 7:6

Seldom have coyotes and wolves living nearby, for long. Wolves feed on them. In my area, wolves will eat yearling lambs before they run down fawns. Snowshoe hare and sharp tail grouse populations are down sharply. This may be different in other areas. The UP has 3% of Michigan's population and nearly all the wolves. Detroit Metro has half of Michigan's population. Is a vote of the people a fair way to set Wolf policy? SSS makes a lot of sense, in such cases.

There are a few of us that are eye witnesses that have different opinions. Have a gander at Lisa's posts. She taken pictures of the wolves from her window. I had a big cat try to take out my dog at my home. We live with this on a daily basis.

If you choose to live with them, that's fine. What I was referring to is constantly asking for links.
If I tell you a story about something I personally witnessed, and you ask me for a link, my interpretation of that remark is, "You are a liar, prove it to me."
Hence the Matthew reference.

All you have to do is say, "2 + 2= 4" and then throw up a cloud of meaningless words followed by scripture and that passes for a valid argument where you're from I guess.

I've told my own experiences here time and again, and all I get from the rabid, foaming at the mouth, skeered of the big bad wolf crowd, is. "It just hasn't happened YET. Wait and see....the big bad wolf will get you YET!" So might a meteor fall on my head.

I can't understand why people who don't live in wolf country and have nothing to lose get so rabid about the issue. If you live where the wolves are (and not just a couple who've wandered in for the weekend) and keep stock and have something to lose, then I can see getting heated about it.