Unreasonably high land use fees, permits, taxes, and regulations
 

I am new here (HT forum), have been readying 4 acres for my future, but am having reservations after visiting the county website fee area. I am in Pierce County, WA, and I am aghast at the regulations and fees, etc. On top of that, these people are not always fun to deal with. I already paid for the land, put in a well and septic, have power to the curb, but am actually considering selling it before I go any further, maybe heading off to Alaska or somewhere I don't have the government watching over me, charging for every stinking thing I do. The well guy told me they are now doing flyovers to find non-permitted structures. Is anybody else dealing with this? I mean, I want to put up a shop and the fees are as much as the structure. There's something inherently wrong with this. Sorry to be venting here, but I became a bit discouraged today.

I'm in Skagit county.When I built my house I had to get permits and such and didn't consider them exceptionally high. Now property taxes I do think are quite high and are climbing. I wish we had a law that prevented taxes from going up until it gets sold to a new owner. I'm on a fixed income so rising taxes hurt.

Move and sell. Greedy state, county and town governments are trying to bleed tax payers not quite dry. Before you buy in an area research it carefully to make sure you'll be able to do what you want.

small structures (<200 sq ft) can fall under the size requiring a permit in some places. lots of benefits to building small when possible

Yeah, I am considering that. I did research it, but it looks like I may have misunderstood the fees somewhat, as there are more than I originally bargained for. It's only going to get worse, too. I love WA, but I think it's beyond help. I just wanted the zone 8 climate for growing my plants. I may have to give up the dream.

Yeah, I can build one of those, though not for inhabiting. Problem is it's not big enough for my needs insofar as a shop is concerned.

The county pretty much has everybody over a barrel. It is illegal to live in an RV, and I think this is designed to force you to build and pay for permit fees, etc., and then pay higher taxes for the developed land. You have to buy a use permit to use the land as recreational for X number of months per year if you want to utilize an RV. I am trying to do as little as possible for as little money as possible, and I am finding that the county is standing there with their hand in front of me asking for money while telling me everything I CANNOT do. This isn't my land, this is some bastardized idea of property ownership rights where the state owns the land and charges me for anything and everything I want to do, and jacks the taxes along the way. My whole interest in the property is living frugally and treading lightly while growing all sort of plants and food, yet the county wants to force me to build something or leave the property.

Welcome to Babylon where you never do own your own land.

Arkansas, Missouri, rural Oklahoma, etc.

"Pierce Co seeking out buildings without permits from above

TACOMA, Wash. -- There's a spy in the sky over Pierce County.

Property patrol is taking aerial photos to bust people who didn't obtain building permits before breaking ground on a project.

The patrol simply compares two versions of the same photo - one from 2005, and one from 2008 - to determine which buildings are new, and which ones don't have proper permits.

"I believe to date, we've found about 2,400 in the areas that we've looked at already," said Diane Ranes of Pierce County Planning.

After the patrol finds a new structure, the county researches permits and sends inspectors to check them out.

Violators get six weeks to admit their mistake. If they meet the deadline, they get amnesty and are let off the hook with no fines or penalties. They also get one year to obtain the proper permit."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/83691052.html

Lots of stories out there about these people spying on us. So nice that they can afford planes and surveillance on our dime.

Whipsaw,

How are you zoned? I'm rural resource (RR) in Skagit county. I've reviewed the zoning restrictions and I didn't see anything that concerned me in lite of my expected uses. Your zoning determines regulations and tax amounts. Have you reviewed yours? One thing I found out is that the folks at the county permit offices are not always right in terms of what the codes actually say. It helps to be familiar with it yourself.

As far as building permits, K.B. is right about no permits for small buildings that you aren't going to live in. In Skagit it is 200 sq ft. The first building for me was a 14x14 log cabin. 196 sq ft. It is now my wood shop. When I built my garage which is 24x36, the permit was about $500 but that was 10 years ago. I lived in an RV for 8 years. 5 of those I was building my house. Never any hassles but I'm very rural. The permit for the house was about $1500 but with all the inspections they did, and those inspections did help me since I'm no pro at house building, I think I got pretty good value. There was a separate permit for electrical that I got from L&I that was about $100. Their inspections were even more helpful since I had no prior wiring experience. I just read the building codes. They found several things that I had missed. I didn't pay for any permits for dirt work. When I bought this place it already had a well in and electricity as well as an approved septic plan.

What are you experiencing that you feel is out of line?

PM sent.

Pierce county has always had flyovers. 1st there is two military bases in the county. 2nd usually they are looking for meth labs, moving stolen goods, and stolen cars.

They have been doing "Eye in the Sky" program for at least 6 years state wide.

Things vary from county to county. The east side of the state is more reasonable, the west side much more controlled. Spokane county is much stricter than Stevens county for instance. If you don't have proper permits in Spokane county and you don't rectify it as they want, you will have to tear it down.

If you work with the county people most of them will be quite helpful.

I have a friend that got caught with a barn that was not permitted. They gave him two options, meet all building codes and pay twice the permit fee - or - tear it down. He took door #1.

I know this may sound like a poor attitude to some, but suppose a person was to say, "No, I will not tear it down, and I don't have the money for your permits. Now, kindly get off my property." What would they do? Are they going to forcibly come onto the property and do it themselves? I don't understand when push comes to shove what these power trippers are going to do. At a certain point in time there has to be some sort of pushback. They are just "adopting" new fees and charges and citizens don't even get to vote on them oftentimes.

They would slap a lien on the property. Ultimately, probably with fees, it would be paid. Or, they might end up owning the land.

You're right. It would take a bit of time, but they would probably take the property. Disgusting. I think I was born in the wrong century. I want to go back when property ownership actually meant something, not just owning the right to pay the government a bunch of money every year for their property which I had to pay a bunch of money up front for as well.

Recently I have discovered WETV which does reruns of old shows that I grew up with. I get it on Dish satellite. One of my favorites was the Rifleman (Chuck Connors).
Those were times when you could do whatever you wanted. Seems to me those times are over.

Here Spokane County will rip it down for you and add the cost to the tax bill. You either prepare it for all the inspections, pay the fees or have it torn down. Or the county will.

Well here last summer i built a new shop :clap: Did it my way no permits or inspectors either ,won't live where there is such none sense either :awh: If people would vote with their feet the whole state could join Detroit :happy:

There are reasons why the ptb presume authority and only "allow" tenant status rather than absolute ownership, a.k.a. allodial title, a.k.a. equitable title.
Namely, you probably did not pay present value when you bought it, but only exchanged legal tender.

THIS is why we were removed from the gold standard.

http://www.hisholychurch.net/study/gods/cog11movma.php

A few snippets from the essay........

One of the most important disadvantage of paper currencies is probably the least understood. All credit money is mere legal tender and the bearer can pay for nothing with them. That is to say that the one offering them for payment of debt, in the purchasing of a thing, is able to do so only because the issuer of the obligation to pay the redemption value of the note is assisting in the actual deliverance of the purchase price. So, although the bearer of the note may purchase a legal title, he has not actually purchased the item itself, failing to deliver present value. At the same time, he is creating a constructive trust.

“This (Federal Reserve) Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the president signs this bill, the invisible government by the Monetary Power will be legalized. The people may not know it immediately, but the day of reckoning is only a few years removed. The trust will soon realize that they have gone to far even for their own good. The people must make a declaration of independence to relieve themselves from the Monetary Power.”
Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., December 22, 1913.

“Of all contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money”
Daniel Webster


“Banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies.”
Thomas Jefferson

“It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford

“I see in the future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the public is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln

Again, from the essay......

This was not the first attempt to accomplish these ends, nor will it be the last. The so-called Civil War had begun to collateralize the debt of the federal government. By 1872, in response to “National Bank Act,” Horace Greeley stated his perception of the changing civil situation in no uncertain terms when he said, “We have stricken the shackles from four million human beings and brought all laborers to a common level, not so much by the elevation of former slaves as by practically reducing the whole working population, white and black, to a condition of serfdom. While boasting of our noble deeds, we are careful to conceal the ugly fact that, by our iniquitous money system, we have nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined, is no less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery.”
Internalizing the debt saved America for a short while. But the Federal Reserve Act again pushed the process of collateralizing the debt and title to everything in America and, eventually, the world into a massive collective trust.
There has been only one real attempt to undue this process on a governmental basis. Kennedy had prepared to print four billion dollars in US notes to replace the Federal Reserve notes. He began to bring troops back from Vietnam, he signed a series of Executive Orders in preparation for total economic depression if and when the money powers made their move to collapse the economy as they had done in 1929. Robert Kennedy, as Attorney General, had realized the collateralization of US debt which made every piece of land and natural resource, all livestock, factories, and machinery, as well as the people themselves, nothing more than chattel for the security and surety of debt. Kennedy’s plans died with him and all his efforts were thwarted by Johnson.


End snippets.


Read the essay.


We are in the latest stages of a worldwide dominion and land title coup with its roots in paper currency, warned against at every level since it's inception.
US citizens are esteemed to be a status having waived all right for privilege; they can own nothing outright, but must pay homage/fee/tax/usury for the use of the lands beneath them and the conveyances in which they travel, having been absolutely removed from their natural rights by the use of unbacked paper currency.


Yeah...... that should make you mad as ****.


Public "education", they call it.....?

To the op, pierce county is one of best counties to live in the I5 corridor. They go out of their way to help with permits. They most likely tried to get you to put in a general use building where you could turn it into a shop. They may have suggested a dirt floor.

It sounds though that you bought inside city limits. Cities pay extra for secruity. That extra tax they pay to the fire department will make the first responders get there in three minutes. Where as rurally a person may be lucky if they respond in ten minutes.

It is up to buyer to do there research prior to signing. Now if you do continue to complain about gov, it probably best you move away. Pierce county can be creative at getting rid of nonsense.

You might want to check into their legal definitions for "Trailers" or "portable buildings" Here, there are builders of "Storage sheds" anywhere from 8x8 to 14x40. They are built on skids, and hauled to the location and set up. I've never known of an instance where anybody had to get a permit, because they were considered portable. Hey, if you give it enough thought, you probably could figure a way to put wheels on 2 or more buildings, and back them up together with a breezeway in between. I know that custom and history dictates the bigger the better, as far as workshops go, but how much actual space are you going to use at one time? If you were going to work on furniture, or even a vehicle, a 12x24 is plenty. So what if you got to walk a few feet to the next building, er, vehicle, to get your tools. Always think outside the box. Sit down with a building inspector and find out what they'll allow you to do. Here, you can build a 12x12 building with no permit nor inspection. What if you built 4 of them, really really close to each other?? Ask. It don't cost anything to ask.

The area you are considering for a homestead style of life is in the three county area that contains half the population of the state(Seattle Metropolitan Area) . Looking at the over one hundred pages of Pierce County Zoning regulations alone, I think you are living in an area where the overwhelming majority of the people would rather buy their vegetables than grow them.

This happens in all areas of the US. People collect together wherever there are good jobs, good recreation, good culture, good scenery--and good coffee..... The more people, the more regulations are created to insure that all residents/constituents are treated as equally as possible without harming each other or the total public. A person in the minority(you) may feel that these regulations squish your desire to live as you please like a jackboot.

Unfortunately, you have the choice to learn to live with the regulations and fees, go under the radar, or move to somewhere in Washington where it is less populated. Isn't that what D. Boone did? Please understand, though--I do feel your pain. I just don't see how somebody with the "homesteading" spirit could ever find peace by fighting City Hall forever--which, in my opinion, is what you would do....

Best of luck.

geo

my take is taxation without constitutional representation

Mobile structures are another option for many areas. Some locations have actively closed the "loophole" of building several small structures close together with regulations for minimum distances btw structures.

All seems pretty crazy to me, too. My area has adopted the LDO (land development ordinance) over the past few decades. Interesting talking to people who have been here long enough to see it happen. I keep thinking that if more folks got involved in the government process, the creep of the LDO restrictions could be stopped or even reversed... wishful thinking! :hysterical:

This. What Alice said.

Do your research, though, as each of these states have "nanny" counties - usually near major metro centers.

This is the reason we're moving to WV... No permits. Build what you want how you want when you want. Live in what ever you want..

Taxes are cheap... we've got a house and 5 outbuildings with 57 acres.. less than $900 a year..

I agree.. vote with your feet.. move somewhere that fits your style.. I was just looking at the county stats for our county. Since 2010 zero building permits filed..

Get out of there. Nobody should have to ask permission to build on their own land.

No one should have to, but the reality is most do have to... very few places left in the US where you can do as you please..

Having run a bulldozer for most of my life, now, I have some experience in clearing land.

Yes, the bigger trees are going to take more time and effort, and carry greater risk to the operator, but they all have to come out if we're to farm efficiently.

Same goes for obstacles to liberty set against us.

There's nothing worse than one big, sprawling and gnarly, intimidating tree left standing in the middle of a 160 that just lays beautifully, otherwise. :)

County assessor increased my assessment 6 times the prior assessment. I told her to provide the buyer and asked when closing was cause I selling to that fool and moving. She couldn't and restored my former assessment. If she does it again I'll just go the sovereign route and pay her nothing.

Here is a true story about what can be done with official regulations.

My sister got a divorce. My folks were living in a huge house and they wanted to convert the back half into an apartment for her and her soon to be born child, but after looking at the plans the zoning people said that they had a single family home and they could not add a second kitchen to a single family home.

So.

A "Wet bar" is allowed in a single family home and so my folks asked to put in a wet bar and submitted the same plans with a different title.

It was approved, and the staff said they liked to see folks upgrading their property and said they hoped he enjoyed it! The wet bar has a sink, a small stove, a fridge, a ...... you get the drift.

My folks are now elderly and they have rented out the back of their home to a succession of grandkids. We are happy because they do not live alone and the grandkids are happy because they get a real deal on rent and my parents are happy because they like young folk around the house.

On the down side, my Father had to read and understand all of those regulations. It probably took him a bit but it was worth it.

SO! The fees for the shop are unreasonably high. Can you put a structure that is not a shop up for less and then move your tools in? A detached garage, perhaps?

Is it the state or the county? Is Oregon the same way?

They can use google earth like me. I can see a 4" PVC pipe laying on the ground.

I've come across "google maps" that can pinpoint a ladybug with some clarity......

They can lien the property and even collect interest on that lien which will be paid out of the sale proceeds. This effectively takes your property as they then can sell it for the lien. The easiest thing to do is sell and move.

The short of it is you don't own anything as you pay for it and then rent if from the state who thinks they have the right to be on and in the property at will. Locked gates mean nothing to them.

You really believe you're represented? ehehehehehe oh my!!!!