EPA Tightening Restrictions on New Wood Stoves
 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...cmp=latestnews

They are taking "comments for 90 days...and are saying the costs to you due to the new restrictions will be made up in your medical savings.

Just chip, chip, chipin' away:sing:

Well we need to get the hospitals on our side...They could stand to have some more patients instead of it saving the health insurance companies..

Seriously... Like the converter for my stove isn't already way expensive enough to pay for.. and now I'll probably have to buy something even more expensive eventually?

New cars have gotten so safe the average person can't afford one.. .

Now heat will be the same..

"The EPA in its announcement said dollars spent for compliance would be made up in medical cost savings."

Why? Is it gonna make my health insurance (that I rarely use) cheaper?

I'm so tired of being mugged by the Goobermint!

Nah.....new cars went up for two main reasons:

1. The Federal Reserve has KILLED the purchasing power of the dollar. I saw a 1968 VW beetle for sale the other day for $3500. Nothing special about it, well maintained, but brand new in 1968 they were 1/2 that.....I know, because I bought one.

2. New cars today DO have more safety features, but far and away, they have more 'do-dads'.....power everything, sun/moon roof, electronics that even 20 years ago would have be The Jetsons kind of stuff.....CD players/movie screens/GPS screens/Backup cameras/you-name-it.

No way you can blame the cost of a new car on safety.

Again, nah.....old stoves will be around long after we're gone. These requirements are for new manufactured stoves.

Going to require 4.5gm max out of non-cat stoves next year. Stove I bought 4-5 years ago is non-cat, and puts out 3.5gms.


Not only will these new stoves burn a lot less wood ( since they burn what would have gone up the chimney in old stoves ), you'll end up with cleaner air. If you live in an area where a WHOLE LOT of folks use old stoves, (like I do) and you can cut the air with a knife some days due to wood smoke, you'd appreciate that someday that might clean up.

There are plenty of cities battling poor air quality from wood burning stoves to justify this measure.

I expect the government to keep me safe from things like this since I cannot plug my neighbors chimney in order to protect my health.

Up where some of us live we need heat or we die, or at least a whole lot of property damage happens.

Many of is have wood stoves with no need for electricity as a good backup heating system.

Such simple devices would be banned under these rules. All wood stoves would end up,with computer controls. Computers become obsolete very quickly, and need electricity, and do not like power spikes or static electricity or damp summer conditions.

It will make simple, homesteading living a bit of an outdated idea.........

Much like trying to burn used cooking oil in the new disel engines, single rail, computer controlled, DEF using engines are a no go on that sort of thing.

Paul

More efficient, burns less wood to make the same heat, puts out less pollution. If the stoves can do that why not?

Old stoves still available.

I have seen stoves from the 1880's still being used. Lots of old stoves out there no reason why non-electric stoves new or old would not be available.

Many McMansion homes could benefit from an efficient wood or pellet stove to heat a couple rooms during a power outage or use it more often if it the stoves in the neighborhood put out less pollution.


Air pollution cost money just ask the parents of kids that have to use inhalers. Or someone who has had problems growing a crop due to aid rain. Air pollution will be getting worse not better as the worlds population increases. We can take steps now or wait till we cannot see to land an airplane - except we have that problem now .

The problem with air pollution is we're reaching a point of diminishing returns unless you live in terrain such as LA that holds pollution. Meanwhile the pollution in China is getting worse and is being transported to other countries via wind.

Yes it is getting to the point where this epa stuff is getting out of hand. They Need To Be Stopped. And stopped Now. Roll back the regulations 14 years and thins country would be better off and everyone that lives here as well.

You are kinda missing the boat here - the stoves would not be available due to govt regulation. Non-electric stoves would not meet the regulations and could not be sold. That is the issue being brought up, the point of this thread I believe?

Then you say town folk should get a pellet stove to use during power outages?

Huh?

That is the bad thing about pellet stoves - dont work when you need them, during a power outage.....

You kinda point out the exact bad parts of this.

Paul

Sure just like the epa has told coal fired plants they must get better emissions controls and set a standard they must meet.
Thing of it is NO Technology Available today that can bring those plants into compliance, so they Close the plants. Same thing goes for those stoves. The Epa is way too big and has to be booted down to size to nearly nonexistence.

Stoves currently made / manufactured that last many, many years are still available to be purchased/ used. If the rules change the models that do not meet the new standard could not be made new - old existing stoves could still be used, sold, moved to a new home. They are not taken out of service.

You assume that without grid power that a pellet stove cannot be used. Not true.


The new designs to meet the proposed standards do not have to use electricity. If a design needs electricity that electricity does not have to be provide by the grid.

There are backpacking size stoves that can heat your hot water and charge your cell phone at the same time now for sale at stores. If that can be done then the heating stove can be made to generate electricity to operate blowers or feed systems once started ( battery or hand crank on a feeder) .

Is that what the proposed regulation says ?

Source, please ?

My reading says newly manufactured stoves.

LOT of mountain valleys like where I live ( long way from LA ) commonly have winter temperature inversions that hold smoke down in the valley. I live fairly high on the mountain, but I can look down on my neighbors pouring out their smoke. It goes up a hundred feet, makes a right turn and hangs right there.



Not just China. North Carolina paper mills dumped their waste into the river that flowed over into Tennessee for years. Feds finally stopped it.

What needs to happen is trade sanctions put on countries that export their pollution.

So how much pollution is that really going to save when they make it so cumbersome to burn wood in a stove that nobody does it and then the dead trees etc that would have been used for firewood are then just piled up burned instead,to get rid of them.

Also do you think they will try to regulate the emissions from forest fires too?

I do understand, more of us, less room for us to pollute and remain healthy and happy. I don't prepose we all burn mounds of coal just because we can on our front lawns. ;)

I don't think those of you from south of me quite understand what winter really is, and the seriousness of living in the real cold. And keeping your pipes running, your house heated. What some of you went through here the past day or two would actually be a good day for me. Pipes need to be 5 feet deep to not get frozen on extremes like this - many of you just have pipes open, in your crawl spaces??? It doesn't work like that.

A backpack heater doesn't heat a house. Some of you use a milk house heater to help out. Heck, I have 2 of those running in the house to help out, keeps 2 rooms warmer. But in the extreme cold we had the past 2 days, I would need 60 of those heaters running to keep the house warm.... That is just a typical house around here, I don't have any palace, just typical farm house.

The regulations preposes you can't manufature a furnace - that means the old units are dead, gone, no longer available. Just like light bulbs, can no longer make or import them. They are currently selling out inventories, but you can't make them here any more.

Wood stoves are a rather small market. We will have even fewer choices than we do now.

My house uses a boiler, radiators, hot water. There are very few indoor manufacturers left. It is very very hard to make a boiler meet the air requirements of a hot air wood stove. But does the govt care? No, one size fits all....

And do any of you care? Doesn't seem like it, if it doesn't affect you, no,big deal, let the govt walk all over other people, no concern of yours....

Just in a down mood tonight, not trying to put words in anyone's mouth here. :) kinda how it sounds tho.

Paul

I'm with you Rambler, I think its ridiculous for the government to stick their nose into this. It seems that they will not be happy until they can control every aspect of our pathetic little lives.

Wood stoves create air pollution - lots of it. That is fact.

If other sources of pollution, have to clean up their act, why not wood stove manufacturers?

Why is clean air and water, always someone Else's, responsibility?

One doesn't need to see to land an airplane anymore unless it doesn't have the newest systems on it.

Remember to vote democrat. Not saying some republicans aren't just as bad. Obama promised change. He gets to keep yours.

Plow Jockey, the point is, I don't believe their intention is to clean up the wood stove emissions, they want to eliminate them from existence. Their is a hell of a lot more wood that is openly burned on this earth than is burned inside someone's wood stove. The benefit that might be gained is miniscule compared to the expense and inconvenience to those who depend on wood for their heat. And its like a drop in the ocean as far as how much smoke goes into the atmosphere from all sources.

When is the epa going to ban fish because they crap in the water and pollute it. How many people need to lose there job due to epa regs before we the people stop them? Lets just ban cold and hot weather because it can kill. How about we all give up everything that might pollute something like cars, electric wind and solar still makes pollution from the start to finish of making the solar panel or wind mill.

I think I see a new business model. The manufacture of "antique" wood stoves. Add a bit of rust and ash and the customer is home free.....Joe

It's not only the stove but the venting system.... stainless lined chimney of the right size = way cleaner burn.... run you vehicle with an improper exhaust and see how it does.

"I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

Might want to remember Richard Nixon signed the bill that brought EPA into existence.

Well, kinda off subject here BUT a little known fact is, over $10,000 of every new car sold goes towards advertising.

If you are a gooberment agency your power is directly tied to your budget. The bigger your budget the more power you have. The EPA was formed to stop pollution. Folks figured that that meant the big polluters like industry. So the EPA stopped most of the big polluters but instead of saying "our job here is done" and fading off into the sunset, they started looking for ways to continue their existence. They have come up with "problems" that need them to fix so they can continue to exist and even expand.

The spouts on gas cans are an idiotic example. They came up with regs that resulted in the new spouts because a bit of gas was being spilled into the atmosphere. The reality is that I spill more with the new spout than with the old because I could bend the old flexible spout into the opening on the gas tank while with the new spout I have to aim for the opening and hope I hit it.

I went to buy a new fuel line for the outboard and found out that the EPA required a new attachment to the gas tank. This raised the price of course. I have several outboards and 5 tanks. I am not about to replace all the connectors to make the EPA happy so I cut the new connector off the fuel line and put on an old one. Still had to pay the higher price for the new line.

New regs on light bulbs and carburetors are similarly stupid. If I were king for a day, I would slash the EPA's budget so that they could only address any new major pollution.

On the darker side, the current administration is using gooberment agencies to further it's agenda. Shutting down coal fired power plants when we have a million years worth of coal in the ground hurts the economy by taking away jobs and making electricity more expensive. The IRS tried to inhibit conservative nonprofits by denying them nonprofit status.

They tried to institute cap and trade which charges you for producing carbon. Carbon is one of the components of the exhaust from wood stoves. They were trying to make burning wood so expensive that no one could afford it. There was no distinction between carbon that was locked up in fossile fuels for millions of years and carbon that was locked up in fire wood for 20 years and would be released when the wood rotted anyway.

It seems to me that the new regulations on wood stoves are just a way to do an end around since cap and trade didn't pass. Once the new regs are in place the EPA will ban all old stoves and we will have to spend the big bucks for one that meets the new regs.

The gooberment is trying to make us all dependent on them. People who burn wood can still be fairly independent so they must be brought to heel.

I would LOVE a source on this!

Come on! You think ford can spend $10k on each $30k mustang? And still make money!?! Maybe you misread something but that simply isn't true. Profit on each car is very low. They make most of their money on replacement parts and such.

And there are selling some in th slow 20's can;t tell me that Half of that cost is for Ads. No Way~!

More proof that the EPA is just another horribly out of control, power mad govt agency.

I don't see any links in the article to where you can tell the epa what your thoughts are...did I miss something or did foxnews not provide it?

They why don't they just ban their sale and use, then?

The EPA cannot do much about wood that burns naturally, but when a cul-de-dac is choked with wood smoke from fireplaces and wood stoves, there is something they can do about it and that what they are doing.

Everyone always thinks their pollution out is miniscule, but when multiplied by hundreds, thousands, or millions, adds up.

Some time back, posters here noted that their "EPA approved" wood stoves, actually put out more heat on less Wood.

I've got a few wood stoves I intend on using. If I put them in a new house, there may be a requirement that any stove I use be EPA approved. Already needs to be UL approved. So this effects more than the manufacture of new, could make your stove illegal. When the insurance companies discover that a EPA approved stove builds less creosote, making them a touch safer, you won't be able to use grandpa's stove and keep your fire insurance.
On the other side, most of those outside wood boilers puff out an awful stench. Partly because they have short stacks and partly because you can't split 3 foot firewood,so wood goes in half seasoned. Already many cities banning them.

I wonder if Jethro next door can still burn all of his plastic trash in it?

Would you suggest that a fire insurance company approve a less safe model ? That would seem like a stupid business decision on their part....the whole reason UL labs came along.

You could always simply not carry fire insurance and assume the entire risk.


Yep. And there are new EPA standards for outdoor boilers in response.

In fact, 7 States actually sued EPA to force it to up the standards on these boilers.

Seven states filed a federal lawsuit against the Environmental Protection Agency over health-damaging air pollution from outdoor wood-fired boilers that have become popular for residential heating. The lawsuit asks a federal court to order the EPA to review and adopt updated emissions limits for the boilers, which have been banned in some states and are strictly regulated in others. The coalition includes New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...7d8_story.html