Treating Icy/Snowy Roads

PackerBacker · #21 12/20/13, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerj

Don't put salt on a gravel road. It will never freeze and you'll have a soupy road.

Only if you use WWWWAAAAAYYYYYYYY To much or apply repetitively.

**highlands** · #22 12/20/13, 05:01 PM

We use sand and add about 50 lbs of CMA (Calcium Magnesium Acetate) per 12 cu-yds of sand to keep the pile from freezing. It is the sand that does the job of creating traction on the ice. CMA is environmentally friendly, doesn't hurt the animals, plants, steel or concrete. This is why I chose it. We've been using it for three years and are quite pleased with it. See: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:...tnfarm.com+cma

Sanding and CMA are not necessary for snow. Just for ice. I plow to create a hard pack of snow that builds up about 8" thick in the winter. We drive on top of that. Great traction. Ice is mostly a early fall and late winter problem with warming.

big rockpile · #23 12/20/13, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond James

Plow deep snow and use chains on icy gravel roads. Do not uses salt . Use ash and sand only on walkways not on roads.

Thought this is what I said

Couple pictures of our old road. Gets like this we just get Pickup out and walk in and out.

Treating Icy/Snowy Roads - Homesteading Questions

One of the places we would have trouble, come into a curve and go uphill.

big rockpile

rambler · #24 12/20/13, 09:50 PM

Never heard of putting a salt type solution on a gravel road or driveway.

Live in Minnesota, lot of gravel roads around me, got a hill of a 700 foot driveway.

Can't see the point of it on gravel road? They use many many gallons of salty stuff on the tar and pavement here.

But on gravel?

Paul

haypoint · #25 12/21/13, 06:06 AM

Most gravel roads get sanded when icy. To keep the sand from freezing into a rock hard gob, salt is mixed into the sand, ahead of winter. So, gravel roads receive salt.

painterswife · #26 12/21/13, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Most gravel roads get sanded when icy. To keep the sand from freezing into a rock hard gob, salt is mixed into the sand, ahead of winter. So, gravel roads receive salt.

Not our company. Sand is kept in a covered area, not salt what ever.

farmrbrown · #27 12/21/13, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowhillfarm

Hello there,
We are a farm that is environmentally conscious and attempting to be as organic as possible. We are trying to decide what options would be best for treating the snow on our roads that is least detrimental to the watershed/environment. We are trying to look into the practices on other organic farms in the area but no such luck yet so I figured why not ask you all for some input. My research has said that Calcium Magnesium Acetate and Potassium Acetate are the best options, but they both can be a bit expensive, especially the CMA. Any reviews on these products or other suggestions? Thanks!

To answer your question, many areas in the North are now using a beet juice concoction. I think the high sugar concentration acts the same way salt does to melt.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=beet+juice+for+ice+removal&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

ronbre · #28 12/21/13, 09:46 AM

sand, non clumping kitty litter (plain clay type), sawdust, wood ash

wr · #29 12/21/13, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmrbrown

To answer your question, many areas in the North are now using a beet juice concoction. I think the high sugar concentration acts the same way salt does to melt.

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It has been used extensively up here with mixed results. It is fairly effective up to about -25C but after that, it seems to freeze up and there is a range just before it fully freezes where it becomes a gel and driving on pavement through a thick layer of slime is fairly treacherous. The old sand & salt applications were more effective but because of environmental impact, is no longer a viable option.

Ozarks Tom · #30 12/21/13, 10:44 AM

Just plow it. I maintain 1 1/2 mile of gravel road by plowing, but I'm careful not to push the gravel all the way off the road. When it's melted, I come back and re-spread the gravel.

I used to use the tractor, but my old bones got too cold. I built a 3 point hitch for the back of our Bronco, and now do all my snow work sipping coffee in a warm truck.

rambler · #31 12/21/13, 11:52 AM

In Wisconsin they started using fluid waste from cheese making. Instead of disposing of a waste, making use of it. But, it is still a salt.....

To be most ecologically friendly, one would plow the gravel road, and not apply anything but sand or left over wood ash for traction if it ices up. Typically a gravel road always brings a little gravel up top as you plow it, and the sun will melt some grit out to the top from time to time, so the only problem areas are in deep tree shade or northern hills, and even there a little sand would be the solution.

Any other option is adding some version of a salt that will get into the pond, add some version of a fertilizer that will overload the pond.

I'm not for or against any ideas or options here; just if the basic question is how to be most Eco friendly on a private gravel road in winter, well then you don't use any liquid solutions at all?

In all the 100s and 100s of gravel driveways on hills around me, I've never heard of any farmer or homesteader using any sort of salty solution to treat their driveways. And we all typically get our driveways passable before the state gets the rural roads plowed out these days....

As always, in different areas and different conditions folks do things differently out of need, so maybe where you are you need to do things differently. But if you are coming from a city life on paved roads, things are different out in the country on gravel roads.... You need to and can deal with the snowy gravel differently than they do in the city. If that is what you are used to?

Paul

**highlands** · #32 12/21/13, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond James

Plow deep snow and use chains on icy gravel roads. Do not uses salt . Use ash and sand only on walkways not on roads.

Agreed, don't use salt. Bad for the environment, bad for the livestock, bad for the plants, bad for the concrete, bad for the steel.

I used ash years ago. Not a good idea. Messy. I don't have enough ash to waste on the drive or walks. We use our ash to create local warming by adjusting the snow's albedo in the spring - this warms are farm a month early so we are snow free by May.

Sand does the trick. CMA keeps it from freezing in the pile even in our deep cold. Insulating the pile and having big piles (24 to 36 cu-yd) helps too. Dry sand stays friable better than wet so cover it.

We have studded snow tires on our truck so we don't actually need sand for us. Extended body van. Climbs almost anything. Just wish I had 4WD or AWD.

The reason I sand is for the milk truck. He's so big and carrying such a heavy load that he isn't allowed by law to have studded tires and he has no chains. We have to keep our long driveway up the mountain ready for him to arrive at all times. Packed snow does work for him. Driving the tractor over it (we have logging chains) makes it even better for him. If it gets icy then he needs really good sand. I don't want an upside down milk truck on my farm.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

LisaInN.Idaho · #33 12/21/13, 04:37 PM

We plow and snowblow our long gravel driveway. The county road turns into a ribbon of compressed snow and ice till spring and the county sands it and grooves it with something on their plow trucks to improve traction. The state will put a magnesium chloride de-icing solution down on trouble spots but mostly it's just sand up here.