Suit or Walk Away?

ChristieAcres · #41 12/12/13, 03:55 PM

I feel badly for your situation after reading this thread and also hope your health improves. As a Realtor, I can only give a little more input as you have been given excellent advice in a number of previous posts.

Contingent upon the wording in the Real Estate ad, you may have a claim with Errors and Omissions Ins. The Listing Agent may simply have been told by the Seller that there was a pond, trusted that info, and misled through ignorance of the truth. If the property couldn't be walked and there weren't prior pictures to go off, the only other source would be the Title Report. Here in WA, the Plat/Parcel/Survey Maps w/all Title Info would show Wetlands, Ponds, Creeks, etc..., as well as Setbacks and Easements. Weren't you provided with the aforementioned documents prior to purchasing?

I agree with those that recommend keeping the property and doing the work a little at a time until it is completed. Selling your current property, giving full disclosure as required, will be difficult indeed!

I hope this thread stops another from purchasing a property without being able to walk it fully. In addition, it is very important to talk to the neighbors before you purchase! They are a wealth of information about the local community and especially the property for sale. I wrote neighbor (s) for a reason. Always speak to multiple neighbors as you don't know who may actually either want the property or to cause trouble for the Seller... Also, I recommend every single one of my Clients to read their entire Title Report and ask questions/confirm info BEFORE they buy. I would much rather my Buyers back out of a purchase, than have Buyers Remorse afterward.

mnn2501 · #42 12/12/13, 04:12 PM

Looking at the entire property it appears its a lot of work. Take it 1 acre at a time.
As fat as the crater, fill it in and never think about it again.

libertygirl · #43 12/12/13, 04:20 PM

Tango, it sounds like you have already done so much work. Also sounds like you got to the point of looking around and only seeing all of the flaws. Seems to me that you should do a mental recap of what it was before you laid a hand on it, then look at EACH of your accomplishments, in the order in which they were completed by you. Give yourself a very large pat on the back and then pick something of reasonable size to accomplish next. Go from smallest to greatest. I think a gob of small things can outsize one large one. At any rate I am impressed with what you've done to this point. Oh and as a side note, we bought a place in MO that also stated it had a large pond on it. Indeed it does...although with the previously stated severe drought it did dry up to the perfect point of letting the entire thing grow FULL of brush/weeds. We have some major revamping to do. Then it will be the great pond it used to be.

Hope it all goes well for you!!! You should share some pictures of what you've done thus far. It would be fun for all of us to see and may even be a "pick me up" for you.

Best wishes, and Merry Christmas.

Chief Cook · #44 12/12/13, 04:24 PM

Don't know if this will help or not, but, we sure had a mess to clean up so I know how you feel about that. When DH's dad passed away we had to clean up the place to put it on the market. It was overwhelming to say the least. DH contacted our county and their inspector came out took one look and said the roll offs will be here in the morning, no charge. Check with your county, you never can tell they might be in the middle of their "clean up the county" program and you can get some help. We loaded up three roll offs full of trash! I have no idea how we could have gotten that mess cleaned up with out them. Hope you get some relief and can see the good picture on the far side of this.

Tango · #45 12/12/13, 04:26 PM

moving on.... but to finish off: there was a photo of the "pond" which turned out to be a depression in a low lying area if indeed that was a photo od the "pond" here i tmust have been taken a couple of years before. the parcel photo was inconclusive of whether that was a pond or what it was. i trusted that it was. the ad also used the word wet weather streams to describe what turned out to be ditches caused by erosion. there was a very serious erosion problem. it took two days with a dozer to clear the entire area to locate the "pond" that was how overgrown it was. anyways, ok moving on.. thanks ya'll.... i dunno if i will stay or go but i am feeling very much better about it all.

VERN in IL · #46 12/12/13, 05:25 PM

A gas station operating in the 1970's STAR Discount gas, went out of business and closed, they sold 'bad gas', located on the corner of a main intersection.....

Taxes were not paid, and the site set idle for over twenty years. Nobody wanted it because of the EPA cleanup required(old tanks and building).

So the City council in their fine judgment decided to buy the property!! Then they discovered that because the Gas tanks ventilation lines were attached to the building, they could not demolish it!! It was considered "part of" the tank system.

So it sat again, but this time they slapped another sign on the building, "For Sale- Cheap!" Six years later:

Ultimately they had to pay a hazmat team and completely clean up the site!!! it was over $100,000 after all said and done!

TnAndy · #47 12/12/13, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

Ultimately they had to pay a hazmat team and completely clean up the site!!! it was over $100,000 after all said and done!

THAT is why there are old country stores with underground tanks that have gone out of business sitting around that nobody will buy.....the unknown of the cleanup. I know of 4 right in out immediate area. If the tanks leaked, it could have been a million bucks as well as 100k.

DamnearaFarm · #48 12/12/13, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

A harley rake and a couple loads of topsoil might make things look a lot better. Scrap should be more than that. It is around here. Call around.

In my part of the state it's 10-11 bucks a hundred.

driftwood · #49 12/12/13, 05:50 PM

my main concern would be liabilty of cleaning it up......otherwise,don't worry be happy.

Steve in PA · #50 12/12/13, 06:08 PM

My only grave concern would be what was dumped. In my part of PA there are plenty of canal beds that were filled with hazardous chemicals from the factories. People a few years older than me remember pools of psychedelic colored liquid or pits full of barrels full of who-knows-what later covered with soil. These locations are within yards of the river and I'm sure stuff gets flushed into the river everytime it rains.

My Uncle purchased a warehouse for his business in upstate New York. It was a former furniture factory. His goal was to expand his very successful hvac business into that building while renting the upstairs to tenants. After his entire business had been relocated into the building it was discovered that the entire area was a toxic dump site.

He lost everything because he was liable for the building and property as the owner. He declared bankruptcy and walked away from a mess that he did not create and had no way of knowing about. He moved to Fla with my aunt and lived as a handyman until he retired a few years ago. So sad to see someone lose EVERYTHING.

I hope there are no surprises like this on your property.

Tango · #51 12/12/13, 06:25 PM

i was more concerned with hazardous waste like oil or fuel than anything else when i purchased which is why i had the attorney add that the seller didn't know what "as is" was. some people use "as is" to sell a property in its current condition but it is also used for selling a property in unknown condition as this one supposedly was. there hasn't been any reason to think there is any hazardous waste on the property. plenty of amphibians which are the first to die off when an area is polluted but also nothing really to raise suspicions. the trash is mostly household crap which includes broken glass and twisted rusty metal from old siding. maybe a corpse or two out there since this is the land of "Walking Tall" fame but as for that old stills dot this part of tennessee my last place had three. people around here joke about corpses buried in trash piles.... people that disappeared whose bodies have never been discovered.

**Shrek** · #52 12/12/13, 06:50 PM

If you bought "as is", you generally own it as it is. You have made improvements, continue to do so.

You have a cabin, work out from the cabin mulching and introducing organics as worms, rove beetles and compost to build good topsoil.

Use the bulldozed junk provided it is not overly toxic as hardpan addition as you continue to generate topsoil.

Landfills are routinely built atop of. Just build your place atop your small landfill.

Maybe as you clear it you will find some vintage glass of value or scrap steel to haul off for recycling to offset your bulldozer expenses.

If you have the house and pond already concentrate your efforts primarily out from the house towards the pond initially.

agmantoo · #53 12/12/13, 07:23 PM

I make good money buying properties like you have. You have already started taking the lemon and converting it to lemonade. I do not bury anything that will be harmful/hazardous. I will bury old wire, glass, concrete, bricks, non treated wood, etc. I convert gulleys to grassed waterways, I reroute water to stop erosion, I plant trees to hold soil in place, driveways are rerouted to create scenic views, you get the idea. Most people do not have any imagination so I create features and then I put the acreage on the market and sell. Over the years I have done this on hundreds of acres of assorted land and numerous properties. Why not finish what you have started? Remember this....you bought the land and paid what you thought was a justifiable price. If you improve the land why cannot you resell it at a higher price to someone at what they may think is justifiable with the improvement?

topofmountain · #54 12/12/13, 07:39 PM

You see this a lot. People buy something being from out of State, never really research the area let alone the property. Buy it then fine out the truth. I have never understood this thinking pattern.
We just bought a few pieces of property in the State we live in. In an area I knew a little about. We bought through an local agent, the seller paid for a Title Search on one piece. Before we bought we talked to local business owners & employees about the area this property was in. I knew the County was a Code Enforcement County. So I knew that just anything wasn't going to happen.
But we did our homework, it turns out we like the area & property even better than we hoped. I heard how hard the County was to get permits etc. Well that has not been true at all.
I think you made a bad choice for whatever reason. You clearly had no idea of the area you choose. The time to of talked to the passer by was before you bought. Clearly there must not be any enforced coding. Did you need a permit to build your cabin, was it inspected? Does it meet the basic UBC Codes?
You have no one but yourself to blame. With the SELLER selling "as is" says a lot more than two words. To me that means, "enter at your own risk". NOTHING IS BEING DISCLOSED. A GAME of CHANCE.

Selling it might be a real challenge. Because the locals knew all along. Maybe because you were from out of State they weren't disclosing either. What little I know about the South is if your not from there you are an outsider & stay that way for a long time. If your from north of the Mason Dixon Line your not viewed in very good light ever. This is really true in the small out of the way towns. Not as well seen in the Cities.
Sorry to hear of your troubles, but as said before, make the best of it, or sell if you can, or cut your losses & just leave.

Oh, the second piece we bought was "as is" "kind of" the seller disclosed there were no issues & taxes were current. my conversation with the County validated those facts. But it was so cheap that we knew there was enough fire wood on the property to cover the selling price. But we again knew the area a little prior to buying I called the County & asked questions. When they told me the answers I was satisfied everything was OK. Sometimes we just go up to it on top of a hill & just sit down & look at the scenery. Because we never had any plans to do anything with it, still don't. It can sit there until I die. (my wife is younger than I) When we want to we can go up there & sit in peace & quiet & nobody can tell us to leave.

sidepasser · #55 12/12/13, 07:40 PM

When I bought my farm in Ga. it had not been a true farm in over 40 years. Man was the place overgrown with briars, scrub brush and to top it off, all the "good" timber had been clear cut leaving scrub and hardwoods and just a few young pines. I had to machete my way from the paved road up the hill just to get ON the property..

but I saw potential and lots and lots of work. I was young then, 27 years old and thought I could do anything..lol..and I did. I took that overgrown mess that even the survey crew couldn't get through and turned it into a rather nice place. Took me 26 years to do it, a little at a time. In order of priority, I first hired a dozier to put me in a driveway..land sakes one can't continue to machete their way onto their land! Then a well, needed some water. Then some fencing, then some electric (can't build much if you can't plug in drills and whatnot..then "I'll build a house" and I did, and then "I need a barn..and some pasture, and..you get the picture.

Turned that place into a business before it was over - horse boarding and lessons, breeding farm, and had a world of fun before I had to move up to Huntsville. Now the next folks are going to improve on what I did and make it even better.

and that is the way of it. Take pictures along the way so you won't get so discouraged. Sometimes we forget what we started with and how far down the road we have traveled.

You can do this..and you can make the place what you want it to be. Have faith.

GardenGekko · #56 12/12/13, 09:08 PM

When I bought my property I had the seller rep that they had no knowledge of any dumps, cesspools, buried wastes, etc on the property. I walked the property thoroughly several times throughout the year so I could see it during different seasons (distressed vegetation is a good clue to buried contaminants, and obviously things are easier to see after leaf fall). I looked up historical areal photos. Internet searched local newspapers and state EPA for aquifer contamination, local superfund sites, etc. utility right of ways, proposed pipelines, etc. Used a buyers realtor and made it clear I would buy A property with him, even if it wasn't THIS property, so he would have no incentive to mislead me.

The key to due diligence is imagining all the horrific things you could discover after buying a property, and then looking exhaustively for evidence of their existence.

This is a really sad and horrifying story. I hope the worst you find is garbage, and that you don't discover you're living on a toxic waste site. But it's hard to believe anyone would spend their life savings on a property AND build a home, without at least walking it once.

farmgal · #57 12/12/13, 09:43 PM

Im sorry. Im confused. You bought this property. Put up a brand new cabin. You began a clean up. So you own this property free and clear? Why would you walk away from something you could sell for at least something, if you own it free and clear? Hunters may want it.

VERN in IL · #58 12/12/13, 10:49 PM

By the time you discover it's a toxic waste site, will be when your physician discovers you have cancer.

I would figure out where the "dump" is and not disturb it!

The only thing we bury around here is the ash from the burning barrel.

ChristieAcres · #59 12/13/13, 01:24 AM

Please ease up a bit on Tango... We have all made mistakes, but the way we handle and move on is a true test of character. I wish you well, Tango, and hope it works out for you staying there. Are there any organizations or nearby churches you could contact for some assistance. Even our little church has a list of men who step up and help those in the church and local community. It could be a community project to help you clean up your property... Keeping in mind, I am not familiar with your area or the local economy.

I actually got a call out of State from Buyers for a property another Agent had listed. I went over to that property and walked the entire property, took a lot of pictures, and sent them before I felt good about writing their Offer. I included plenty of contingencies to get them out of the purchase, too. In addition, I negotiated a Lease for them to live in the home until it closed (Short Sale took months...). There weren't any surprises for them. Yes, you can actually buy a property out of State if you work with an honest Agent, who will do due diligence for Buyers, also be willing to walk the property, and research thoroughly. I have only done this a few times, but they were happy Buyers!

Tango · #60 12/13/13, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

I actually got a call out of State from Buyers for a property another Agent had listed. I went over to that property and walked the entire property, took a lot of pictures, and sent them before I felt good about writing their Offer. I included plenty of contingencies to get them out of the purchase, too. In addition, I negotiated a Lease for them to live in the home until it closed (Short Sale took months...). There weren't any surprises for them. Yes, you can actually buy a property out of State if you work with an honest Agent, who will do due diligence for Buyers, also be willing to walk the property, and research thoroughly. I have only done this a few times, but they were happy Buyers!

This is my 5th transaction with United Country and I worked with an agent from beginning to end. I purchased my first place in Tennessee site unseen, working with an agent. It was beautiful; I wish I still lived there but I gave everything away to ordain as a nun. They all knew they were working with someone who had vowed to a life of simplicity and service, who trusted what they said. What goes around comes around. I must have needed this lesson. Check.