Couple of property purchases questions

haypoint · #21 12/11/13, 07:03 AM

If I wanted an accurate test of the well water, it should run awhile. All sorts of build up of minerals and whatever in a well that has been idle for awhile.
Anywhere near Midland or St. Louis? Toxic areas near there.

Sawmill Jim · #22 12/11/13, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogglebug

Well, then, I guess you don't know that much about the use of fluorine in water.

The reason they decided it was a good idea was because through public health statistical analysis they found that there were areas were children's teeth hardly rotted at all, compared to national and world-wide averages. They discovered that this was because there was fluorine occurring naturally as a trace element in the water in those areas. Those trace amounts of fluorine found their way into the tooth structure, making it much harder and resistant to decay. They found that happening in the areas where the kid's teeth weren't rotting, tested it in clinical trials by dosing kids with fluorine in areas where decay was either normal or very bad, and saw tooth decay drop dramatically. Since they thought it was better for people to have a mouthful of healthy teeth rather than half a remaining mouthful of rotting ones, they decided to supplement water supplies with fluorine. Nation-wide tooth-decay figures also dropped dramatically.

It's certainly not the first or last time that small amounts of something were found to be necessary or helpful, whereas large amounts can be toxic. That even applies to water or oxygen.

So... fluorine added to urban water supplies is imitating nature.

All of which was clarifying a single off-thread misconception, and has nothing to do with the original subject.

Yep believe what you will .Clarification is sometimes a good thing is it not .The point was the spill was two miles away but yet one puts poison directly in their water . For those that want to know

.http://fluoridealert.org/articles/50-reasons/

||Downhome|| · #23 12/11/13, 12:05 PM

I had a lot of issues when we had city water.
I won't cover them.
But I will tell you since we are on this sweet well not one issue.

Kasota · #24 12/11/13, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Over 20+ years ago, a gas spill occurred that may have caused ground water contamination. In the last two years the company responsible added to the city's water system, so that people in the area now have city water available to them.

This part sets off alarm bells for me. That's a long time between the spill and when the company put in the water lines. Why the long time frame? Did it take that long for illnesses to start showing up? Did it take that long to get through a court battle? If the company was going to do it out of the goodness of their heart it would not have taken them 18 years to get 'er done. So that makes me wonder if there were lawsuits involved.

You might check court records for that company and see what comes up. And I darn sure would stop over and talk to the neighbors in the area to get the real skinny.

You might also check real estate records. Have people in the area had trouble selling property due to this spill? If it's on an EPA list somewhere trouble may raise it's ugly head down the road.

Me? I would not touch it.

GardenGekko · #25 12/11/13, 09:07 PM

Do you know where the spill occurred? Groundwater flows down slope. You can pull topographic maps off the us geologic survey website for free. (Usgs.gov I believe). Groundwater will flow perpendicular to the contour lines. The rate of the dispersion will be governed by the slope and the soil type. You're in michigan? Are the soils sandy? If so, the contamination is likely widespread downslope from the contamination source.

Contamination from petrochemical spills can last for many decades. MTBEs are highly carcinogenic. They can persistently contaminate the groundwater, the soil and vaporize into the atmospher above. Unless you can conclude definatively that the property is not in the path of the plume (which it probably is given the company paid for a water hook up) I personally would avoid that property.

sidepasser · #26 12/12/13, 12:53 PM

Perhaps checking the ERNS database would be of assistance:

http://www.rtknet.org/db/erns

Here is a fact sheet on remediation of MTBE: http://www.epa.gov/oust/mtbe/Mtbefs2.pdf

I would pass on the property myself if I could not test the water well over a period of time, especially after a lot of rainfall to see if the groundwater filtering into the well was contaminated. Water that is contaminated with MTBE has an unpleasant odor and taste and MTBE does not break down easily in the environment. On the other hand, MTBE is not known to build up in the human body either (like mercury does).

You may have difficulty selling the property in the future as in many areas if you know of a haz mat condition, you must report list it or disclose it when selling.

topofmountain · #27 12/12/13, 09:01 PM

MTBE is a cancer causing agent. These chemicals don't just go away. They get hushed up. by things like the company responsible paying off the city by buying a new or improving or adding to the City water system. But the ground is still most likely still HOT, even if within so called standards.
That why is is such a good deal.
I also would pass. What if your kids eat the dirt like most of us old bast$$$ did in our childhood either on purpose or by accident.

GardenGekko · #28 12/14/13, 08:44 AM

Do you know the type of spill that occurred? Mtbe is typically associated with gasoline spills or leaking gasoline USTs. Unless it came from a plant specifically manufacturing the chemical or say a truck carrying it that overturned.

I mention this bc if associated with a gasoline leak, there are likely many other severe nasties contaminating the soil and groundwater as well that make the issue more dangerous and harder to clean up.

Sometimes we fall in love with a property so much that we downplay in our minds the potential problems. Especially when we can't see those problems or are unsure of their magnitude. This type of contamination can be a REALY BIG PROBLEM, one that could quite literally make you and your family very sick, and prevent you from safely using the property as you'd like to (gardens, livestock, etc). You'll have a hard time understanding how serious it is until its too late, bc everyone (company responsible, neighbors, seller, real estate agent) will have a financial incentive to down play it.

This land might seem like your dream property, but it could become a nightmare. There are other pieces of land out there. With a bit more patience and hard work I'm sure you'll find one that will be better for you.

GoldenCityMuse · #29 12/20/13, 11:53 PM

Pass on that property, or at least offer much less than they are asking.

Wendy · #30 12/21/13, 12:32 AM

Quote:

One of the criteria for my homestead was it must have a well. I don't want to pay for water, just a sticking point for me. But I've seen water bills go from 20 dollars a year when they introduced them in my area decades ago, to 100 dollars a month in some cases or more. Once you are dependent on it they will jack the price up over time, guaranteed.

Just my opinion, but I would look elsewhere.

Getting city water was the best thing we ever did here. There are 3 hand dug wells on this property laid up with rock. None of them have enough water to supply our house. We always had to have water hauled & then it would be stirred up & muddy for days. Tried digging a well & they hit rock 15' down. So we wasted $400 there because we still had to pay for them to try. We spend half the amount on city water than we were having it hauled. It's also nice to have clean water & know we have enough.

plowjockey · #31 12/21/13, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Over 20+ years ago, a gas spill occurred that may have caused ground water contamination. In the last two years the company responsible added to the city's water system, so that people in the area now have city water available to them.

How big was the spill?

The move to city water may have been their way of kow-towing to and reducing EPA fines.

The precautions for dealing with a broken CFL light bulb are extensive, even though there is only a tiny amount of Mercury in it.

Do your homework.

It might not be that big of deal.

A lot of places that have city water, might not even have the option of drilling a well.

GardenGekko · #32 12/27/13, 09:14 AM

It's pretty easy to determine whether there is or isn't contamination. Soil samples are taken, monitoring wells are drilled, water is analyzed. It's all sent to labs. Often an area is sampled and monitored for years or decades before a remediation plan is developed, negotiated between the offending party and the state / federal regulators, and implemented. Often millions of dollars are spent by both parties in protracted legal battles, obfuscation (on the offenders part), etc. In my experience (albeit now somewhat dated) the "solution" is a compromise and less than ideal for correcting the problem.

Don't confuse the hysteria and political sound bites of light bulb disposal with the very complex regulatory / legal process of cleaning up a hazardous waste site. The danger is very real. And if the company is putting folks on public water, there's a reason.

ronbre · #33 12/29/13, 08:17 AM

i have knowledge of a few places where people have purchased land near a spill and had to put in millions of $ worth of water purifying equipment..Rexair in Cadillac Michigan is one that put it's factory on land near an industrial location and they had to put in two HUGE water purification towers ..that was about 30 years ago..and they still run them both daily