Maybe I'm Just Stupid

She said it better then I could have.

Jena: "I guess it's easy to demonize electricity when you have a choice about it and I personally think we ought to pause and consider what life was really like when there was no such thing."

I couldn't have said it better myself!! My point exactly!
As well as how it could be NOW!

It ain't gonna last forever!

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"TIMSHEL"
Spoiler ALERT: For those of you who've never read Steinbeck's "East of Eden".... timshel means "thou mayest".

We had no running water for awhile as a kid ... lived in a single-wide MH with an outhouse ... we kids thought it was great adventure but I do think it was awful hard on my mom.

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"In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."

It is quite possible to live "without electricity" and still have many conveniences.
I have a lot of Amish friends in different communities, and have encountered a lot of different setups.

In Holmes County Ohio I went to supper at one home and first, as the mother was getting ready to do the mashed potatoes, she opened a drawer, pulled out an air hose, hooked it on to her mixer, and proceeded to do her potatoes. At this house they also had a very large oscillating fan that was powered by air. A lot of the homes I was in had propane gas lighting installed on the walls of their homes. One place had their water pumped via a windmill with a gas motor as backup for when there was no wind.

I have seen gas motors for the wringer washers. I have also seen them set up with an air motor. Most homes I have been in have propane or kerosene fridges.
Sewing is generally done on treadle sewing machines. But don't think of the old Singers as a lot of ladies have Berninas hooked up to the treadle, as do I. In one community a lady who is now having some difficulty and she can't treadle any more has a car battery and inverter hooked up to sew.

Someone mentioned wanting heat when it is 40 below. I have been in homes heated by woodstoves (admittedly when it was only -10) and it must have been 85 degrees in the house, I thought I was going to melt.

And some of the folks I know have used the internet at the library to research things like medical conditions, etc...

Now that I have finished writing this, I think I'll write a letter and see when I can go for a visit for a few days!

I agree with you chickflick, we are all so spoiled. When my husband and I were building our house in 2002, we lived in a tent all summer (a two man tent inside of a large tent that we kept the building supplies hidden in), used a grill for cooking, and bottled water. I had no idea one could completely bath with less than a gallon of water. I had long hair then, waist length, and I could wash it and rinse it with less then two gallons of water. No electricity.

In September we moved into a two story 16 x 12 shed and ran an extension cord from the house to the shed so I could cook on a hot plate and hook up the computer (how's that for hot and cold :haha: ) We were in the shed until mid March when it burned to the ground.

People would ask how I could live like that? I wondered, what about camping? We were just camping. I'd say, "Think about how most of the world lives." The person would then stop and think, and realize, yea, most of the world does not live the way we Americans do. I admit to using the laundromat. Did people think we were nuts? I think they already knew that before.

I still think that you're on the grid in some form or fashion if you are on propane (someone has to supply it unless it is on your land)--I don't see a whole lot of difference between a tank that is filled on a more or less regular basis and being hooked up to a natural gas line.

I would like to see more efficient appliances--not everything needs a clock built in, for example. And that goes for cars, too--power steering is good, but power doors and windows I'm not a fan of.

Also, as Jena points out, progress eliminates a lot of drudgery, and this allows the human race to create, to reach to the stars, and so forth.

I have lived without electric before in the past. My wifes and i second winter together found us living in a little place known as Blue Creek, Ohio. We moved into a 10x60 house trailer, installed an old wood burner and lighted some candles.This was in January. We lived that way not by choice. It was six weeks before we got the pole up and got the wire ran. My wife and i had the time of our lives during those six weeks. I remember it fondly. It was also a very trying time. Life revolved around that old wood burner. We had a coleman lantern, as well as kerosene lanterns. We had an old radio with a nice little stockpile of batteries. I think of that time now and how things were. I think of now and how it is. I think we were better for the experience in Blue Creek. We were more intamately envoled with each other as well as more in tune with our son. There were no distractions from a telephone, a television, or even a computer. It was just us, with each other to keep company . We shared more, communicated more. It seems easy to say or feel that it should be that way no matter what.With these distractions, its easy for us to lose focus and slip into another place or world. Without electricity the family is a tighter knit unit. More open to the needs of all individuals envolved. A more nutureing atmosphere can be obtained without these modern contraptions. I think living without electricity is just a lifestyle choice. Some of us are just a breed apart. My wife says i was just born 200 years too late. I think she might be right. Is it still possible to be a true pioneer. Living from the land. Without any connection to the outside world. Living in love, peace and harmony with each other as well as the earth. To behold and commune with the forces that surrond us that truley make us feel alive. To be in tune with the forces around us as well as each other needs would seem a more noble ambition than worrying about whats going on with your favorite t.v. show, or trying to figure out that new computer gizmo. Yes i think electricity is a great invention and has advanced us in many aspects, but i think it has also robbed us of some of our greatest attributes.

Be good
Jagger

Yes but there is a difference. With your propane fridge if the power goes out for a week due to a big storm, you are not going to lose all your food. That's on my wish list for when this one dies. I've heard people complain about the size of them, but we are currently using one that size with no problem. Two adults and two children. When it is that small you monitor leftovers, etc., more closely.

When you have alternate means of doing things, the loss of electricity isn't as big a deal. Last week I was sitting and sewing using my treadle powered Bernina. I didn't have a light on in that room, but thought I saw a flicker in the other room, but didn't pay that much attention. It wasn't until I went into the bathroom - which has no window - and closed the door that I discovered that our electric was out.

I agree about the fact that everything seems to have so many extras that add to the cost/maintainance. We moved in here pre-y2k and the previous owners used an electric stove. I have always hated them, so we bought a new gas stove and made sure to find a one without electronic ignition.

I have 2 propane fridges. The propane people wouldn't put a tank back here because they said they wouldn't be able to get the truck in. I have 4 100lb tanks I lug in and out when I need some. I use a small propane heater in the winter. I also heat with kerosene. My water heater operates on kerosene. I cook with propane. In the summer, a 100lb tank will last me around 3 months.

It's a lot of work sometimes but I wouldn't give it up for any house in the city.

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Diogenes' Philosophy..
"The gods gave man an easy life, but man has complicated it by itching for luxuries."

"With your propane fridge if the power goes out for a week due to a big storm, you are not going to lose all your food."


That is of course if you haven't yet run out of propane and can go get some (as someone mentioned) or it is delivered. I only mean to point out that you (general you here) are still depending upon an outside power source, just as you would if you had a backup generator and had to fill it with gasoline or are hooked up to a normal utility system.

For us, oh well, out comes the barbeque and ice cream for breakfast.... LOL! Good opportunity to clean out the freezer too!!

I've lived a good chunk of my life without electricity or running water, both when I was growing up, and as an adult with children of my own. I could and would do it again if I had to, and in fact I'm making sure that we will be able to survive here if the power goes off. I'm getting a hand pump that will go on the well, leaving the electric pump there and working; a wood stove (which will probably go in the garage, as I don't think Grandma wants it in the house); a scrub board and hand wringers; and so on. Just in case. And As Soon As Possible. But I hope we don't *have* to live without electricity again. I *like* having hot and cold running water, I *like* being able to take a shower and do the laundry in a washer and dryer, I would miss being able to use the computer or read comfortably after dark. It would be difficult to water the whole garden by hand. If you are able to have electricity, be thankful. If you don't have it and are comfortable without it, more power to you. Who knows how much longer we'll have it, anyway.

Kathleen

I don't try to "demonize" electricity. I am glad it exists, especially in the medical field and facilities. However, I do think its a grossly abused resource and try to limit my use of it.

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:yeeha:

I'd eventually like to be permanently off of the grid. First, though, I need to better manage what I use and cut back on the unnecessay conveniences. My kids used to go into spasms when the electricity went out...go figure...no videos or TV, no computer with instant messaging, no radio turned up loud enough to wake the dead. They're slowly learning that they can do without alot of these distractions because that's what these things are. Family time and manual crafts have taken the place of many idle hours spent in front of the idiot box. Cable and unlimited internet access are never to be. We used some of the money we would have spent on unessential distractions for board games, craft supplies, and an idea board (what to do when I'm bored). Don't get me wrong, not having to feed the fire or pump water from the well on a brutally cold winter's night is a blessing. There just needs to be a better way. Simplify, simplify...

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CJ

I'm sorry if I upset some people but I find it very hypocritical that guys are posting on an Internet forum about how they hate electricity and how it is the downfall of society, etc.

And you battery guys, you do realize that that is electricity too, don't you?

Electricity is not unlike any other human advance. It can be used for good or for evil. If, however, it is used for evil you can't blame it, the blame should belong to the purveyors of the evil.

Examples:

- The Internet, this site = good and online child porn = bad.
- Cars, transportation = good and fatal car accidents = bad.
- Electricity, good and for the life of me I can't think of a bad other than somebody being accidentally harmed by it.

Having read this entire thread, I think I have an understanding of the 'off grid' supporters. It is not the electrons traveling on a conductive path that is the issue. Instead, it is the corporate stranglehold that power companies hold over the vast majority of the world that irks them. If someone is able to create and store their own electricity either via wind, hydro, solar, whatever, then they are happy, they have the convenience of electricity at their command, without the expense of paying a corporation to supply what they can provide for themselves. It i s not unlike being happy to drink milk from their dairy cow instead of paying the cost of a gallon of milk at the store...veggies, fruit, lumber, etc.... self-sufficiency at the technology level.

JMHO.

Oh, and yes, I still work for corporate america, working on computers....I like electricity, but I look forward to when I am making my own. I want to be off grid someday too... for economy reasons.

There seems to be more meaning to 'off grid', that I had ever used it for, I don't think electricity is bad, but the way it is made available IMO is, it doesn't have to be a controlling influance in life as we know it, but it often is, but that I mean the system, not the power itself.

grid and system don't mean the same thing to me, resent coversations I have had about living 'off grid', have run into complants about the system, taxes or 'you got to pay some where' as if makeing do with less or making your own is trying to escape the social interaction of comunities, or a hopess quest, so why bother, I don't think it is.

If you have to pay taxes, are they resonable?
do you really need a 2-1/2 story brick home? In an comunity that controls how it must look and what color it can be? and how far the trim has to be from the egdes, where the plants can be in your yard, etc,etc,etc,

If I couldn't get propane I would cut wood, if I couldn't get gas I would stay home. I will do what I can to live as comfortably as I can, and try to do what I can to never end up being like a hamster in a maze running the preaproved tunnels to support the system that put me there to start with.

Why does that make some people so annoyed?

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Thumper/in Okla.
Growing a Homestead from the dirt up.

save the grass, eat a cow
C.L.F.
{chlorophill liberation front}

Thumper, I'm not sure who it annoys, but maybe they don't like your independence when they aren't....

I know we can do just fine here without electric. But then we have a natural gas well. The stove, some heating units throughout the house and the hot water heater all run on gas. We can be very comfortable for a long time without electric.

However, I like easy access to it for so many reasons. I haven't had any run-ins with our electric company so I can't speak to "the corporation" end of the discussion. I do know electric allowed my father to have access to oxygen freely here at the house when he lived with us. It allows me to be pampered by forced air heating/cooling when I desire. I think the electric convenience at our home helps to make it an attractive re-sale option.

I know I am rich in this world we live in. I also know I could manage if TSHTF. We each have to make the best choices for ourselves and our families. I like having choices. Here's to yours!

When we moved to MT nine years ago my granddaughter was 3 months old and my son was in a wheel chair due to accident that destoried bone in his lower leg. My husband had a week before he had to go back to work which ment he would be gone 6 months. We cleared area set up a 16 X 32 army tent and cut what wood we could. He went back to work. Two days later we got our first snow. We spent two years in that tent have seen it 40 below and had to open vents because it was so hot inside. Yes we did fire watches at night when it was real cold that hard wood is hard to find in the area of Mt we were in and pine burns fast, but that just ment we stood three hours watches at night to make sure the fire didn't go out. We had a great time built two houses, erected a water tank to gravity flow water to the house. I did get propane fridge eventually and even little hot water heater so didn't have to always heat water on the stove, had a small genarator but didn't crank it very often. The one thing that I did insist on was a cell phone incase of major accident.
Is living off grid hard, in some ways yes it is but in a lot of ways it is better for you, the stress level is way down I had been managing a store for several years putting in 50 to 60 hours a weeks and was having health problems related to stress when we made the move out to the middle of no where 60 miles to the closest town, a son confined to wheelchair or crutches with teenage wife who had never so much as washed a dish in her live and a three month old baby and I was in my late 40's we managed fine. My son who had had one infection after another in his leg in civilazation healed, in fact they were able to take the stablizer off 8 months before they figured to be able to do so they said he would be on crutches for another year it was three months, they said he would never walk with out a cane, he doesn't eeven limp unless he is tired. Why because he couldn't set in front of a TV wheelchair or not he had to help split wood, we climbed rocks, crutches, metal halo and all, he walked 7 miles down the mountain with me to the truck when we couln't get it in that first winter, on crutches in the snow and 0 temps the doctor told him that the activity was what caused him to heal so well. My two youngest grandson's were born while we were there also the 5 year old was very premature they kept him in the hospital for three weeks and sent him home wioth montior that ran on battery, he never did do well while he was in hospital but thrived once he was home by the time he was 3 months he had caught up completely
so I really have hard time seeing where living off grid is bad for you a little hard work would do most of us more good than harm.
We had to leave our mountain due to my parent advanced age and needing to be where I could help care for them, I'm still in the country but onlt 15 miles from town now and we do have elec and all the so called modern convinces but I miss my mountain and the more peaceful live we had there.

Echo

If using propane you haul in yourself is "hooked up" Then we all may as well consider ourselves "hooked" . I buy gasoline for my car - which I do not refine myself, clothes from cloth made by others, food not grown in my own garden. We are all part of our communities. (just some of us are more "involved" than others.
We (my family) are spoiled by the easy availability of quick eats and premade everything. I love my phone, electric lights ect. and my computer allows me to make my living while being at home with my kids. AC doesn't exist in my home! Which currently is a 10' by 20' Costco tent. We bought 31 acreas in Arlington, Wa. and are building a home here. OK-- actually I have a large hole which was once used to dig out gravel which will be my basement. We are negotiating with our county planning and development on several topics before they will aprove of our designs. They do not like the idea of our sod roof, water catchment systems, ect.. Gray water systems of any sort are illegal in this county!
ARRGG We use 12 volt systems charged by swapping batteries back and forth from our trucks and pedal power.
My point is that we are all dependent on outsiders for something. And that's not so bad. It's harder to shoot at your neibors if you like them. We do intend to be "off grid" which the powers that be seem to think ridiculous as we do have power lines that come right onto our property.
I too really dislike the idea of meter dudes sauntering onto my land any time they like.

Loki

Grid living is a beautiful thing!

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Cheers from Southern Ontario CANADA!