Getting power to shop

4 poles for a 400 ft. run sounds excessive.

How is power delivered to your existing service? Buried, overhead triplex, or high voltage to a transformer?

Im not sure what triplex is, but it is overhead to a transformer.

Triplex from a 100 amp breaker in the main. Put a post with a box on it halfway, put a Square D subpanel in it. Triplex from the box/post to the shop.

Put the triplex in 2 inch conduit, buried 18 inches. Rent a ditch witch or other machine, should run you less then $200 for a full day. Both subpanels should be less then $100, triplex is also cheap.

Thanks, sounds like you know what you are talking about... You dont think that distance would be a problem for the triplex?

Triplex is 2 black and 1 silver/bare wire.

Got it... So if I HAD to have 100amp at the shop. What do I need to have coming from the house? With the house having an existing 200amp service, im sure I will be eating up power without the shop in the summer by using well, hot tub, ac and rest of electrical items. Do I need to go back and look at my original idea about putting in a 400amp service and splitting it 200 to house and 200 to shop to compensate for the voltage drop?

Triplex is a service cable rated for exterior use. Its is a braided alluminum line mostly used for service. It is usually sold as 2 wire. You do not need a neutral for service, both wire's will be used as hots. Neutrals are to complete a circuit by returning un-used electricity to the panel, to be dissipated by the ground.

Line loss on triplex is less then on regular wire, since braided wired provides more surface area for the electricity to travel. That being said, I would put a small subpanel on a post midway through the line. Make sure to use dialectric grease on any exposed wire, as it will oxidize and corrode.

Unless you have very uneven terrain between the existing transformer pole and the shop location, or other structures between the two, sounds to me like the power company is blowing smoke up your skirt.

They should be able to tap into the two high voltage wires that feed the exsisting transformer to run the 400 feet to the shop location and set another transformer/meter pole, and use at max. 2 guy wire anchors, 1 at the existing tranformer pole and one at the new transformer pole.

This was my thinking too. setting four poles to get across 400 ft just seems way out there to me. Our power company runs about 800 ft per span on regular service lines. Sometimes further if they are going over low places. They like to keep the lines from sagging much below 18 ft above ground. Our farm is not quite a half mile long (about 2400 ft) and there are three poles.. one very near each end, and one in the middle. Those spans have to be right around 1000 ft each. They set one new pole for me.... about 20 ft from one of the existing poles near the north end of the farm. Their transformer is on the original pole with a triplex drop to the new one where I built a 200 amp main service set up with meter base and outdoor 200 amp breaker box. I installed a two hundred amp main breaker and a 100 amp breaker powering about 100 ft of buried triplex to the house along with another 50 amp breaker and separate buried line that serves the shop. At the shop there is yet another 30 amp breaker powering a branch to the trailer. Nothing is much over 100 ft from their transformer so I dont have to deal with voltage drop to any great extent. Note. I did drive double ground rods both at the pole and at the house, one at the shop and one for the trailer to insure a good ground at each supply, along with the use of the ground line that comes with the triplex. Our power company boys are very fussy over ground rods. The op does have a lot more distance to his shop and faces that issue if he runs his from his house to his shop which is why I suggested getting the power company to run the line on their poles to his shop building. With the transformer at the building, his supply will be at top performance.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Another thing you could do, if you have the skills. Get enough poles of the correct lenght to keep the wire high enough off the ground to not be a hazard from a lumber yard and set them yourself and use screw in insulators of the correct size to hold the triplex with the appropriate insulator to end the run at the pole at the shop. You may or may not need to install a guy wire to this pole, or you could terminate the run by attaching it to the shop building. Purchase a meter loop and an outdoor service disconnect to mount to the meter loop instead of having a meter base/meter. You can run your shop wiring from the disconnect into the building to a service panel/breaker box.

The power company should connect this run to the load side of the existing meter loop for only a service charge at most.

You would need to also put a ground rod at the pole where you place the service disconnect to be on the safe side. If you are in a dry location, probably wouldn't hurt to install 2 ground rods.

Disclaimer, you should check to see if there are any local codes that would prohibit you from doing the above.

Also, you have not mentioned whom you talked to at the electric co. Suggest you talk to either the Manager or the line superintendent and see what they tell you.

I thought it seemed like a stupid high price to me also. All the other poles on our property go about 500ft. Im not sure why they wanted so many? She was supposed to email me the "quote" two weeks ago and I havent heard anything. Ill reach out to them again tomorrow. The lady that gave me the quote was somebody that Pacific Power sends out to look at new installations.

That ^^^^ speaks volumes.

:-) So whats a person to do? I had the monopoly that you only have the options of one power company, no competition for other buisness to provide power.

Talk to the manager or line superintendent of the power compay and explain in detail (same things you have posted in this thread) what you have been told and tell them that their estimated cost of extending/adding a new service is unreasonable.
(2K for a pole, 1K for a transformer, vs 12K --15k)
I could write a book about my dealings with a rural electric cooperative over the years. What gets done and the cost depends entirely on the person you talk to.

My last experience: I wanted to install a service disconnect on one of my services. I bought the things I needed and then called the elect. co. Was told I would have to buy their 200 amp rated box and in addition, the breakers that would have to be installed in the box. Kept going up the food chain until I talked to the manager. Explained what I wanted to do and how I wanted it done. He had no problem sending a service person out to do the installation using my box and breaker. They supplied the wire and coupling sleeves to extend the service to my box and the wire to connect my breaker to the load side wiring of the meter loop. There was no charge for getting this done.

ETA, talk to your neighbors and find out what it cost them for getting their service.

You could get one heck of a solar elect. system with battery bank for $12,000. and you wouldn't be getting an elect bill every month afterwards!

If solar isn't great in your area, I would go with LP/propane generator with battery bank.

Think outside the Elect. companies Box!

Depending on what Pacific Power manger says and some electricians it looks like Im going to have to check with... that will be the next option.

Would not buy enough solar to run much of a shop?

IMO at least.

A 30-35 k gen set would be a better option, as previously stated.

My shop would easily eat most of that...

The GF eyes roll when I head out there, she knows the electric bill is going up for the month.

What is a line side tap?

I didnt read all the replies, sorry if this is a repeat of info already.....

Very common out on the farm, 400 feet isn't that bad.

Underground direct burial feeder line, 4 individual wires, aluminum is what you can afford and works well. It will be thick wire, and expensive, but not that bad. Some folk hate direct burial, want their wire in conduit underground if you do be sure you use wire rated for conduit use, as it heats and cools differently if direct burial or in conduit, you need to match up right.

At each end be sure you have the proper box with a clamp than is rated for aluminum wire, and use the special grease on the connection and it works great and safe. From there you can wire the building with copper wire inside.

It will be far cheaper than the quote you got, my farm has a central transformer, and then 70 feet to the house, 350 feet to 3 buildings, and a multi branch line to the remaining 6 buildings and deep well up to 700 feet away. Had all that put in underground for $8000 8 years ago, all is capable of 200 amps. Prices for aluminum has gone up a little, and labor, but obviously I had a lot more done, and that 700 foot line has wires the metal is as thick as my thumb....

So you should have no problems, it will cost but not that much.

Paul

Edit - read the thread after all....

Current code you will almost always need to run 4 wires these days, from your one service. You can't get by without the ground wire any more. There had been some ag exceptions which may apply, but bet not.

The concern with long wires and bigger voltages is 'voltage drop'. There are many calculators out there. This one tends to be rather conservative and some folk don't like the big wires it calls for, but it correctly give you a 3% voltage drop for a service line, and then you have a remaining 2% drop for the in-building losses for the total 5% voltage drop you are allowed.

http://www.elec-toolbox.com/calculators/voltdrop.htm

This says you will want your aluminum feeder wires to be 500 MCM gauge, which is big and expensive, but will give you full 200 amp out there, and you won't see any dimming lights, etc. and can fit your budget. Forget the 4-0 wire and such others talk about.

Depending on what your current main breaker box is, you can pull off of it and be feeding 200 amps to your house and to your shop with the current 200 amp service you have. This is not a problem, however you can only be pulling a total of 200 amps all together at any one time. Unless you were going into shop business with employees, I can't see the single 200 amp service ever being a problem for your setup. You might need a new service box, or main breaker box, to handle the divide, but it should all work out fine.

It will take a smaller wire and potentially easier main connection if you only want 100 amps out there.

400 feet is not a problem, IF you do it right. And your electrician will do it right. And while expensive, it should not break the bank as other options you are getting will!

I'm running a deep well, 5 buildings with 60 amp services, and my big 48x81 shop at the far end of that 700 foot run. Along with the rest house included, all on a 200 amp main service.

It won't be a problem. Your electrician will have no problem setting it up.

My numbers and comments might help you figure out what you are in for ahead of time, I love doing that research too, but the electrician will have it all dialed in easy, and it will work all off 200 amps (unless you often have multiple workers in that shop at the same time).

My entire farm used to be on a 60 amp service until I upgraded, farm shop, house, well, livestock, etc. now that was a little cramped, lights would dim a lot......

.................A triplex , is 2-120 volt AC hots , with the aluminum being the ground..............just like the power run to the weatherhead at your house ! The power company's initial quote was to run a single phase , 7,200 volt line to a pole close to your shop , on that pole they would install a small stepdown transformer to go from 7,200 volts down to (2) 120 volt hots and an aluminum ground , just like you have for the 200 amp service to your home ! You would have NO voltage drop by running the hi voltage power wire all the way to the shop . , fordy