Simple (To You) Wiring Question

No that is not what I'm saying.

hook up your three white, hook your original single black to fixture then hook other fixture wire to your double black.

Enough guessing folks - as already suggested you need a voltmeter - then separate all the wires after you throw off the breaker - check to see that there are not any hot wires before you stick you fingers into the light fixture box - with the wires all separated throw the breaker on - now check to see what wires are hot - if the new light fixture is plastic then you need to connect one hot wire and one white wire to the black and white of the new fixture - if the new light fixture is metal you should run the bare ground wire to the new light fixture using a pigtail wire - if you put the breaker on and don't have any hot wire then put the switch on - now go check the outlet to see if it has any power - probably not because you don't have it connected to a hot wire - go back and connect the remaining black wires at the light fixture location to bring power to the outlet - now there may be some differences to what I think you have but with a voltmeter you should be able to figure out that is happening at the light fixture box - take your time and figure it out - it isn't rocket science - but you need a voltmeter - good luck

I'm certain one pair of wires is travelers to switch (the one that had the single black, also probably the one that has the ground cut)
I'm als certain one pair is the power, (Hot/Neutral)
I can only assume the third pair runs to the outlet.

Here's the 1st picture again.



The single black wire coming out of the box is connected to the tan wire on the light (at yellow wire nut). The 2 twisted black wires connect to both the black on light and on receptacle. The 3 twisted white wires connect to the white wire on receptacle.

Why does black connect to tan?

__________________
Rich

It would appear to me that they switched the neutral wire . That's why the white wire connected to the old fixture is wire nutted to the single black in the box . The 2 blacks in the box are hot all the time so connect the black on the new fixture to the two blacks in the box & connect the single black in the box to the white on the new fixture . Not the way I would have done it to begin with but appears to be what someone did .

I used your posts # 5 & 6 to come to this conclusion .

If you would like to know how to undo the wires & switch the power wire ask . You could do it all in the box pictured & not have to mess with the switch box unless they needed a neutral in the switch box to go somewhere else .

Just my thoughts here, not quite sure what you have at the switch. It appears to me that the original wiring brought a hot lead in from the breaker in one of three sets of romex. One romex went on to another part of the overall circuit and one romex went to the switch. If this was indeed the case the white wire should have been tied to the black wires, carrying the current to the wall switch, and bringing it back on the black wire. (all bare grounds tie off to each other and green) The other option would have been to bring the live romex from the breaker to the switch box first... switch goes in the black wire and the whites tied off there. That romex would have then gone to the fixture box... all whites together, all blacks together and everything from the switch and beyond would have been turned on and off with the switch... Shoulda woulda coulda.... thats how its sposed to work but then you also mention another hot wire coming into the switch box from a separate breaker.... That is never suppose to happen! My advice.... get a real electrician out, let them test and sort out exactly what your situation is and take the necessary steps to correct it.

ETA: Ok, you probably dont need to call out the electrician. After going back through and finding a critical post I now think I know what was done originally. There are two code breakers in your setup but both can be solved without extensive rewiring. The original set up switched the neutral instead of the hot lead. All you need do to correct that is to untwist your three whites, and run the white wire that is in the same romex as the single black wire over to the two black wires and twist them together. Next you use black tape on that white wire to identify it as a hot. Then tie your single black wire to your black on the new fixture, tie the white wire from the fixture to the two whites in the box, and the green to your bare wires. That will take care of problem one. (MAYBE) The other problem is having two separate hot leads coming into a single box. You need to put a divider between the two switches making two separate boxes out of the one double box.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I don't understand why, but it works. The 3 white wires are wire nutted together, but not connected to the light.

__________________
Rich

The single black in the box is actually a neutral & should at least have a piece of white tape around it to show people working on it that's it's a neutral . One of the 3 white wires in the box is a neutral going down to the switch & that single black is in the same romex & comes back from the switch to provide a neutral for the light fixture . As I said before they switched the neutral wire instead of the power wire .

Do you own this house?
Either way if you are going to do any more poking around in that bad wiring job you really should at least get a simple Volt Ohm meter.
Seems like you had written that all three white wires had been together. No wonder that fixed it.
.
Power is coming into that box and going from there to another box someplace. That is two of the white wires and the two black ones that were tied together. Then they added another white wire to send the common to the switch and brought the common back on that single black wire. It is very wrong that way but it will work. What it means is to be very careful changing the bulb in that fixture. At all times even with the switch off there is power in that socket. I hope they did it right so the hot wire is in the bottom of the socket. If the hot is in the threads of the socket and someone reaches up there with a new bulb they better just be touching the glass part of the bulb.
.
As a 13 or 14 year old kid I had to go down into the well pit at night to re-prime the pump. There was no switch to the light. To turn it on we just screwed it in. I was standing in water over my shoes and I reached up where I thought it was and grabbed onto it too high. I grabbed the threaded base and if I had a weak heart it would have been all over right there. That is where I learned the socket was wired wrong.

The 2 hot black wires in the box are connected to the black wire on the light fixture so the power in the light fixture is where it should be , not on the threads . Thing is , that even with the switch off there is still power to the fixture , just no neutral to the fixture . If it was mine I'd change a couple of those wires in the box around & run power down to the switch & back .

Me too. I would take off the white wire that is from the same piece of romax as the single black wire then wrap some black tape around the white coating back a couple inches then hook that wire in with the two tied together black wires. Then put a short piece of short white wire in with the white wires for the dedicated common to the light. I only wired houses for seven years full time.

Moonriver, all you need to do is place the black wire from your light fixture to the two black wires twisted together in the box and cap with a red wire cap. Then place the white wire from your light fixture to the single black wire in the box and cap with a yellow wire cap. Then the 3 white wires that's twisted together needs to be capped with a red wire cap. Everything should work.

__________________
r.h. in oklahoma

Raised a country boy, and will die a country boy.

This is true, it will work, but its still switching the neutral wire. Not the best situation when correcting the problem is not that difficult.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Everyone seems to assume the guy may have actually used color coding correctly?

Usually I can figure out electrical stuff, but this has to be one of the most confusing threads ever. I got lost halfway through page 1. So I'll just add that when it comes to electricity, just because it "works" doesn't mean it's right and safe. Be careful if you don't know how it's supposed to go.

It does seem he did due to how it appears and works. The error seems to be that he switched the neutral Instead of the hot.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Green is the safety ground.

The clump of black is the live power, one comes in other goes on to some other light/receptical.

The clump of white is the neutral, one comes in, one goes on to some other light/receptical, and one goes to the switch for the light.

The single black wire goes to the light switch. It is live when the switch is on, it is dead when switch is off.

Do not trust a word I said..... There are many alternative possibilities.

Paul

Couple there be more than one switch for the light? Could the green wire be the common between the switches?

Moonriver.
Did ya get it yet?
You've got what most folks have in their house, but never know it until they replace something.
A fixture that was being used as a junction box.
It's legal and ok, just confusing, lol.
But you DO need a meter for stuff like this unless you have a lot of time and patience, a cheap one will work, or one that just lights up when it's "hot".

All the whites go together and stay that way.
You've got one black wire that is always hot when the breaker is on.....find it.
You've got one black wire that goes to your light switch......find it and separate it from the other blacks.
Tie the all blacks together (yes, the one on your new light too) EXCEPT for the one that you separated that goes to your switch.
Now take the white from your new light, and tie it by itself to your lonely black wire.
Tie all the grounds together.
Try it and then button it all back up in the wall.
You're done.

That will get things working, but it is still switching the neutral. In my area electrical inspectors frown on that.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain