Which state is best to homestead and be self-sufficient?
 

For reasons I will not bore you with I have decided to take the plunge and homestead. My goal is to purchase a plot of land, build a small cabin, and become completely self-sufficient. This would include a having a garden, a solar power system, and preferably a clean water source nearby. Some timber on the land would also be a plus.

In my search for land I have been mainly looking in Oregon and northern California. Which state (any of the lower 48) would be best for what I want to do? I am trying to take into account all factors including taxes and any state stipulations I might have to deal with.

- Please be patient with my replies. I only use the internet about once per week.

If you want to stay in the west, I might suggest you look at Idaho and Utah as possible places for a homestead. I suspect they may be a lot less inclined to want to micromanage your cabin building project. They are also two states that come recommended highly in a book called, "Strategic Relocation". Wouldn't hurt to pick up a copy if you want to explore some info on various states and how friendly they might be to relocate to or to live in. No, it's not the end word on all states, but it has a lot of info that can be useful, some of which may or may not be relevant to you personally. It's worth seeing if your local library has a copy.

Complete self sufficiency is a wonderful goal but one you'll probably never reach. Not too many people can build their own solar panels or batteries. Not too many people can make all of their own nails and screws, build their own guns, grow gunpowder in their gardens, make their own cloth and then use that to make their own clothes, etc, etc. That's not to say that you can't do a LOT to minimize your reliance on goods and services from outside of your homestead. If you have a decent piece of land and adequate water, you can grow most of your own food. That means a lot. If you have no debt and no need for much cash, that means a lot. If you're healthy and don't need a lot of medical care, that means a lot. If you are physically capable and have the skills to garden and build and repair stuff, you'll have the ability to go a long way towards self sufficiency.

If you've just read some books, you might want to start with maybe a small garden someplace and see how that goes, building on that.

Good luck!

Florida was the right one for us. If you like cold weather you can get some great prices an hour from Tallahassee and have a short winter, rolling hills, clay soil, 8 - 9 month gardening. If you like it warmer, head south and the soils become sandier, you can garden year round once you get to Palm Beach and south, but the prices go up.

Florida has a right to farm law, low taxes, and a less than average intrusive gov't.

Depends on what part of the country you like best, and what you are looking for..

We chose WV for the for the following reasons...

Very cheap land tax, no permits needed to build.. very little local government.. Lots of running water, a whole lot of great hunting, very fertile soil where we bought, water straight fromt he ground... got lucky with free gas out of a well for winter heating and all cooking and such..

Not too dry, not normally too wet... um... lots of other great reasons.. Oh. no tax on groceries... and still more.. .

Not to bust bubbles but you will never be "completely self-sufficient"...

No one is, you may come close, which is good but very few people do so.

Farm family's where large for a reason, more hands make the work go by faster.

There is also a reason for the Farm Flight of the Early century... Life was easier in the city.

To come close to full sufficiency your going to be working around the clock. Unless you rethink what your needs are , a meager life takes less work then a enriched one.

Where ever you go Taxes are Inevitable, so that would be one priority in my search.
Another chink in the self sufficiency, besides taxes you'll need cash for other things from time to time, its just impossible to do everything yourself. Barter is alive and well in places but most folks prefer cash cause thats what the tax man and the big stores take.

I also do not want to go anywhere arid and prone to drought.
Out west they have strict water laws.

Thats the other side of the coin is I don't want to be in a law repressed area either.
(not that Michigan isn't!)

Climate well I like 4 seasons, each one signals the new jobs needing to be done.

Best place to Homestead really depends on your wants more then anything.

I'd want it close to family and Friends, a safety nets important, and well the kindness of strangers may come in to play, I would not count on it.
Due to the economy here many of my Friends have moved, only to find similar in the new locations and have no support system and are stranded.

I learned late in life many things that I thought where necessary are nothing more then wants, and you can live very well with out.
Also society puts a certain amount of pressure to live a certain way.
If you have kids or may have kids, your life style could come under fire from government officials.

My advice start slow, don't jump into it, start living how you plan now, do what you can with out taking any skin off your nose.
start developing the skill set and knowledge you'll need.
Also acquire tools you'll need, Buy used. I have a shops worth of tools that I paid a percentage on.
Had I been "needing" them, well I would not of had the luxury of waiting on a deal.

Can you make due with out? Lord knows I have, but if you have the right tools for the job , life's becomes a little easier.

I was informed last night by my cousins kid , the farm he was buying is getting yanked out from under him.
He put a substantial amount into it, on a lease to buy contract, guy now has another buyer...
I had cautioned him to move slow and avoid it, but he plowed head first into it.

Had he taken that money and time,and used it differently he would be far ahead of the game.

Lifes not easy what ever you do, and you have to take chances, but a hedged bet better then a easy pick.

I'm fond of sayings, ones "always under promise, and over deliver" in essence set you sites low and if for what ever reason you can only achieve that little goal, much easier on the soul then being crushed by a defeat. Life is riddled with such.
But when you accomplish more then you set out to do, well you will be on cloud nine.

One more saying for you "the grass is always greener on the other side"

Again not discouraging only stressing caution, what you propose is most likely a huge lifestyle change.

best of luck on your endeavors!

If you want less government interference and lower taxes, etc. I would recommend a southern state. The middle band of the country also offers a more moderate climate which makes off grid living easier, no long harsh winters and not overly hot summers either. There is also plenty of cheap land, plenty of wooded property, and plenty of counties where you build just about anything and live in it without any interference.

What is your vision of self sufficient? How do you foresee raising the funds to pay for taxes and necessities?

First let me thank everyone for the advice, suggestions, and precautions. I realize complete self-sufficiency is very hard to obtain. I expect certain things will always have to be purchased, and my goal would be to minimize these things as much as possible. The yearly taxes are what concern me the most. I would like to put my land to work for me in raising these funds, but the only ideas that have come to me so far are excess solar power sold back to the grid (not sure how profitable this is), and farming. I am not adverse to hard work... in fact I prefer it. I'm looking forward to putting my labor into something I can be truly proud of.

Some places they only credit you for energy put back into the grid.

Our green energy program blows.

Cost YOU to tie into the Grid and they only credit you, if you have a surplus thats not use they take your credit.

Oh ya they expect a 30 year contract to extend these "BENEFITS"...

I said no thanks...

Honestly Michigan is not that great of a state for Solar or Wind, Forget setting up micro hydro too...

Really I think in the long run, its better to go grid if possible.

Most cases less out of pocket and its a wash eventually.

Now if it was not available (grid power) or it was cost prohibitive, then yup thats the way to go.

Why not stay in New York? Depending on where you locate you would have access to various markets for produce and goods you could produce.

Honestly Taxes are the smallest expense you will pay on a modest homestead.

In that case you will definitely want to look for an area with the lowest possible property taxes. :) The West coast is known for being high on taxes.

I know a lot of people out here where I am earn a living from a variety of odd jobs, collecting scrap, selling some vegetables, firewood etc. I know other people who make their money from selling crafts on Etsy or Ebay or in small touristy type shops that focus on local items.

That would be the one in which your heart lies - I do not think that it is possible to move to Happyville.

One can try out many places ... but can only find content within.

Definitely NOT Illinois. We live in town and our property taxes are very low but we have friends who live 40 minutes North of us, in the country, and theirs are over $4000 a year.

Why do you want solar panels?You can not be self sufficient if you have electricity on the place.Heat and cook with wood and pump water by hand or have a spring.Save seeds and gather.Those are the things you need to do.

If you want to do your own thing and not be bothered by local building depts and permits, and have lower taxes, NorCal and Oregon are NOT your place!

In either place you will pay too much money for any land. And the building depts and permits will kill you. The taxes are high in both places, the cost of living is high, and you don't have much freedom. Oregon is the same.

My son's Dad has lived for 40 years without building permits and such in the Medocino Coast area, in the forest, and one angry renter neighbor (mentally ill) turned in all his neighbors to the Bldg dept for one thing or another. It has been a year and he is still having to deal with the dept. Even tho he had a legal, permitted septic system that was fine for all that time, the inspector decided the whole thing had to be replaced for no reason other than he wanted to be a jerk and put some one's chain. It has been one thing or another just going on and on, and they threatened him with a $4500 fine per DAY it wasn't fixed to code. And NorCal is corrupt government at it's best.

I lived in the Portland Oregon/ Vancouver Washington area, and I can tell you first hand that the government regulations are bad. The property prices are high, and the taxes are high. I did a lot of research and narrowed it down toTN, and MO. I finally moved to MO, and love it here. Taxes are low, property prices are low. There is sales tax on everything, including food. I figure the more I become self efficient the less I will pay in sales tax any way. One of the best things I like about it is the fact there are building permits in most counties.

Texas. Do a search on cost of living, land values, property/sales/income taxes, etc. Yes I AM prejudiced by the fact that I am a native Texan but there is a reason I have not left.

The largest wind power farm in the US is here in Texas. Some of the best medical centers in the world are here in Texas. We get lots of sun for solar energy. Plenty of cattle here and it is easy to buy and sell. And here in the south, we have two growing seasons. Just don't expect to have any fruit trees that require lots of cold days because we don't get that many but then again, who really wants that much snow?

Was that typed correctly? You like the building permits? What county are you in? :)

Everyone has different opinions. Few of us agree on this topic.

I farmed in California, and owned homes in various places. I chose Maine.

After 7 years of homesteading here, I am still happy with my choice.

Universities of FL and, I think, AR and MS have done a lot of work to develop "northern" fruit trees that do well in warmer winters. They have apples, pears, peaches, plums, that require less than 800 and some as few as 200 chill hours (less than 45F as I recall). UF has also developed citrus that can take the frost and will do well in the northern parts of Florida and even into GA. SO there is a ever widening area that can grow citrus, pome and prunus. I'm planting them all.

Apples, pears, plums, cherries have always been able to grow here in Maine.

There are a lot of people who have been very successful with peaches here too.

I have lemons, figs and olive trees.

NW TN land taxes for 6 acres, house and barn are 282.00 year. You have to pay the volunteer FD 50.00 a year if you want them to put out a fire on your house.
Groceries are taxable. Neighbors are good. Not many jobs. No State Income tax. Some areas are rather lackadaisical about permits and such, but I personally never built anything. Good sun exposure for solar, water is fairly plentiful and there are good clean and cold wells.


~ST

no thanks. I don't do cold and neither do oranges and grapefruits.

First let me say that anyone who says complete self sufficiency is "impossible" is 100% wrong. There are many examples of complete or near complete self sufficiency. Here is a family who lived completely cut off from the outside world for forty years; http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...188843001.html

^^ This does absolutely prove, beyond any doubt that complete self sufficiency is possible. If you read, you will note that it is also very very difficult, and probably not preferable to most people.

How can you make your property taxes of of your land? Well obviously you are going to have to market SOMETHING. You can farm, you can cut and sell firewood, you can go into business marketing some skills you might have, or you might get a part time job, or seasonal job. There are some big benefits to each and some drawbacks as well. Starting a small business enterprise might take time to develop and in the mean time you are still going to need money for those taxes. I think there are nice advantages to have=ing a part time or seasonal job because you will meet local people and form relationships. This is especially important to a new person moving to a small rural area.

The people I met while working my part time job in town became my friends, I met my wife there, I got to know my neighbors, and many of my customers are people that I met. When the time was right and I started producing more I went full time homesteader. The wife still works part time at the same store and that money is important to us. Just my 2 cents worth, good luck!

When looking for a place to homestead, we did a lot of research. We want to have two places: One in NY and another in a warmer climate.

We started with the lists that you can find online. They are usually found in articles titled, 'The 10 Best States to Retire In,' and the like. We searched for best places to raise a family, best places to retire, best places with lowest taxes, best places to age, lowest cost of living, etc... You can often find similar lists compiled for individual states. Some of the criteria didn't really apply to us, but we were able to spot some trends and prioritize what was important to us.

For our NY home, we wanted to be close to family. We discovered that the counties that surround us have lower taxes, so we are actively looking for something outside of our county. Since we won't be here year round, we wanted to be able to install a lot of permaculture, like fruit, nuts and asparagus. We'd also like to have a stocked pond. We expect to be here during the full planting and harvesting season, but wanted to make sure that we'd have a crop of SOMETHING even if we weren't. The crop would probably cover the taxes if we needed it to, but we have outside income that is not tied to employment.

We are still considering Florida for the other home and plan to do something similar. We'd like to have fruit trees and a stocked pond on the premises. We won't be able to have any livestock until we eventually settle down in one place or the other.

The one thing that I would caution against is relying on any ONE source of income for paying your bills. I tell this to everyone and not just homesteaders. It doesn't matter what the source is... it can be cut off due to government shutdown, lost in the mail, loss of employment, rental tenant moves out, crop failure, business failure, etc... You should always have a backup plan and a backup to the backup plan, if possible.

Other sources of income that many people tap into include becoming a childcare provider, teaching music lessons (or whatever else you might be good at), plowing snow, tilling gardens, landscaping, selling plants starts in the Spring, scrapping metal, hauling junk, house cleaning, selling firewood, fixing machinery, baking (depending on regulations), specialty sewing, pressure washing, Ebay/Craigslist sales, etc... There is always something that you can do to earn a buck, but you want your income to be diversified to protect your family.

Well no you do not take into account a few things.

They where out in no mans land, thats not the case for most of us...

Now factor that in to your equation and tell me what you come up with!

Well you can move out to no-mans-land...or you can use some other model. The fact is if you say it is not possible to be completely self reliant then you are wrong. No argument there, its a proven fact.

Well As long as your endeavors is here in The USA, or really any modern country, I will have to disagree.
Show me examples here?

I can give you one and a hero of mine Richard Louis "Dick" Proenneke.
He choose to live a life in the last real frontier of the US.
Even with what he accomplished, he was not 100% self sufficient.

So again and this isn't even apples to oranges, Its dolphins to ostriches.

I said earlier in a post, a modest life is easier to live then a enriched one.
Not many would live the way that family did.
Well we all want the chains of society off us, well there are more of those that are comfy with them.
As such resources are regulated as well as activity's.
So where can you go park your self and just live the good life?
Hard to do in a country of private property, sure you could do it for a while, but you must of missed how much people dislike others trespassing.
In one of the National,State or County Parks.
Well I can think of a few examples of that too.
Not too long until someones going to come along and move you.

I suppose you could Label the Homeless as true self sufficient people.
Foraging is Foraging,Right?
Even thought the harvest is normally the cast offs of the society that would not have them or they choose not to be part of.

Well Dicks lifestyle calls to me, I would not want the other two...

Even with Dicks Hunter Gather plan, its lot of work.

Besides certain road blocks (mainly society and their Laws) very few are going to be willing to live a subsistence lifestyle.

Or Able.

Like I said One person can not do everything themselves.
Most folks today will tell you there's not enough hours in the day, just wait till you go back to manually doing everything...

There. fixed it for you.

There have been a lot of great ideas mentioned above for earning money from the land. Keep in mind that if you finance your purchase, the bank is lending money based upon the value of the land. If you change that value, they have a say so in how you do it. Specifically, I am talking about cutting or timbering. Most banks will not allow tree removal for profit or at least require an approval. So research before you leap.

Good luck with your endeavor. Self sufficiency is a lofty goal. And keep in mind that it is not always a profitable one. Financially speaking, it is not good advice to spend two dollars to save one. I hate this saying (because of management overuse) but will go there anyway: "Go for the low hanging fruit". Make sure that "the juice is worth the squeeze".

Thanks Batt, you are correct, I meant no building permits.

Arkansas has some counties with no permits.

Around here, if you make a permanent foundation then you need a permit. But most of the state has no inspectors.

The only folks we get from the government is the tax assessor. He makes his way through every township once every ten years. He does not care what you build. He just wants the outer dimensions recorded for the assessment, every ten years.

Florida has no bldg permits for ag bldgs. Some folks build barns and then convert them to non-ag uses.

I've always wondered when these topics come up, why Pennsylvania is always so underrepresented. I don't protest, because I am quite willing to keep the low tax, low cost of living, low input from the government, warm summers, good hunting and fishing all to myself. Once you get outside of the 3 or 4 metro areas that represent about 10-15% of the land mass...the rest of the rolling hills and mountains of the state are quite wonderful.

Rural southern alabama gets my vote. Lo land price, utilities, taxes, game warden Is lawman, pick produce on halves. Have a herd of cows. They eat anything green.Bunt oil, salt, bleach is total meds for cows. No cable service . No iphone service . Free dinner Weds at church

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I grew up in Lancaster County. Wonderful farm land... unfortunately, much of it covered in black top and subdivisions these days. 60 years ago, when my parents built their house, it was along a sleepy little road. Today, it's a major thoroughfare with traffic that I couldn't move back to.

If moving back to that area, I'd have pretty high property taxes, plenty of regulations and restrictions on what I could do, and even emissions testing (Uugh!!).

To move back "home", it would be way more crowded and expensive than I'd want. With the proximity to Philly, Harrisburg and even Baltimore, it's a little too urbanized for my taste.

What part of PA do you hail from?

I'm in the opposite corner of the state...but I'm very familiar with Lancaster county. My brother lives there (Manheim twp.). I consider that area as Philly's surburbs...that line running from Allentown, Reading, Lancaster and York and I'd consider that whole corner of the state one of the urban areas I was talking about (even though there are rural areas within that area too). And you're right, property values are sky high in those areas.

The greater Pittsburgh area, is the only other large area in the state like that...then geographically small areas in Erie, Scranton/WB, and Harrisburg Looking at a map of the state, approximately 80-85% of the state geographically is small town, agriculture, or mountains/forest, which suits me well.

Also, I used to be a road warrior and have travelled extensively throughout the country. Some other areas that I really liked were northcentral Michigan (although a bit too flat for me), central/western Maryland and northern West Virginia. Lots of great areas in the south too, but the icefishing isn't the greatest in the south.;)

A guy started a forum on just this subject. A place for every state and comments on it from people living there as to how much freedom there is or isn't in their state. http://walkingtofreedom.com/forum/

I do love my home in NY. I rent out one huge pole barn that was here when I bought the place for more then my taxes. Its way down the road, so its not near my home.

I would not live where I had to pay for water or need air conditioning..

The hubby and I have lived in CA our entire lives. CA is currently the highest taxed state in the union, have a very intrusive government and in my opinion the last thing that the CA politicians want is anyone that is self sufficient. This state wants everyone dependent, with their hands out. All I can say is Stay Away!

We are moving to Northern Idaho. No fracking or potential for (that I have been able to find), while not in the top ten of the most tax friendly states, it is listed as "tax friendly". Plenty of fresh water, nature, and really nice people. Seems the government is not intrusive. Great areas for gardening (especially if you don't get in a high elevation). As long as you stay way from the part of the state with the toxic mining problems, seems to be about as "clean" as you can get.

We are so excited to get out of CA in the next 6 or so months, we can hardly contain ourselves!

Good luck!
Janna

Water is an issue in the west.

It just is ... and there's not a &%*^$ thing you can do about it.

I grew up out in the dry part of southern Oregon, and was a newspaper reporter out there for awhile, covering ... you guessed it ... water issues.

I moved East for grad school, discovered that it rained here in the summer (Water. Falling from the sky. In July.) and I've never really considered going back. It's a big deal. If you've been living in NY state, then you probably have no concept of how dry the West is ... even close to the coast.

My advice is to stick to places where large scale irrigation is an oddity, rather than the norm.

In that vein, I'm not sure you have to look far. I lived in Rochester for years, and I was sad to leave the area (my wife is a Virginia gal, so here we are).

Here's why:

*there's a thriving (and I mean thriving) local ag scene in western NY. The Public Market in Rochester has an amazing range of local produce (including meat) at grocery store prices. If you want to raise for market, the market is there, even though the prices are low ... and if you want to supplement with good cheap produce, the option is there. Down here, farmer's markets are "boutique" affairs--and horribly, impossibly expensive.

*The land is cheap. Yes, it really is. Taxes run high (it is New York), but the ag land south of Rochester is some of the cheapest you'll find, so long as you're not starting a winery--the prices of lakeshore land in the Finger Lakes area is much higher than the acres on the backside of the ridge. You can find livable old fixer-upper farmhouses on 10-20 acres for less than 100k. You just have to look.

*The land, in general, is good. You'll find almost anything that can grow in the northern third of the country has a home in west/central NY. It's long-time orchard country, and was once the regional breadbasket. Overall, the dirt up there beats the heck out of our quartz-n-clay Virginia hilltop.

*The land is fairly clean, in East Coast terms. It isn't coal country, so you don't have Acid mine runoff or separate mineral rights, and fracking hasn't wrecked anything yet (though that fight is on, it seems). Most of the land in west/central NY is long-time farmland, and you aren't likely to find many "surprises" under the topsoil.

Folks tend to overlook NY state as a homesteader's destination because they think of the city and Hudson Valley and the reputation for liberal regulation of freaking everything. You might be surprised, however, at the possibilities to be found in the area around Rochester, Syracuse, Cortland, Buffalo, and the Finger Lakes.

I'd be back up there in a New York Minute if the wife would go along ...