Is this for me?!

There is also "middle ground". I don't have a garden this year, but since I have only about an acre, its not normally a huge garden anyway. What I do have is 10 cords of wood cut and (slowly) being split and stacked in the wood shed. I heat with wood (for the last 37 years), cook with wood, and live on a little rural community gravity-fed spring for water.

To me it is all about self-sufficiency. Until a couple of generations before mine--you know, just as the Earth's crust was cooling--we were a nation of farmers. There's no magic involved, just work. My magic in canning---follow the directions until it becomes second nature, and bingo! Done. Start with high-acid foods that don't require a pressure canner if it seems less threatening---pickled cukes, canned apples, whatever. Also, I have two sewing machines, one a 1927 "electrified" machine, and the other a treadle.

When I was younger I had chickens and goats, and I had *so* much fun with the goats! There is nothing on Earth (except your own babies) that can compare to a brand new-born goat! Of course, selling them isn't quite so much fun.

We have deer in the area, since there are lots of apple trees around, and in the logging cut across the street there are bear, and at least one cougar has been sighted. Best way I've found to keep deer out of the veggies is a dog stationed in close proximity...

It seems to me that a goal that is within reach is to establish a reasonable degree of self-reliance. I can't generate electricity, but I don't need it except for the freezers, and 90% of what I've (being lazy) frozen could be canned and stored. We all have our goals and definitions of "homesteading" (which, BTW, is impossible by today's legal definition), but mine is to be off the grid. So to tie it all up, my suggestion is to first have a clear goal defined. Family farm, live off the grid, easy to defend if the SHTF, whatever it is, *then* break it down into do-able bits and one by one chip away at them. And think of this: people who couldn't for one second fathom the use of these computers lived all their lives without electricity, and did just fine. So can we. (One fine day Ill master the art of a short posting.....but not today. Nope, not today.....)

Barb

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"Midnight girl in a Sunset town...."

Whow!! I can't believe the quality of people on this site! If I had worked with you guys(and gals of course) I wouldn't even consider the early retirement I took! Never been anywhere that I felt I fit in but y'all are changing that.Great replies y'all ! It just feels like family around here!


Wade

I would find a place you want to stay with for ever. Renting or starting with a tiny place isnt a good idea. You will want to plant fruit trees and permanent berry bushes, asparagus etc. Establishing a good garden spot takes a good few years of amending the soil.

If the prices are too high then you need to move a little farther from the city. Find an area where the prices are much lower. They are out there. Do not take on a huge mortgage. I would never take a mortgage that is more then a minimum wage job could pay. Accidents can happen on a farm, ask me how I know I was very lucky I didnt have a huge mortgage to try to keep up with, while I got back on my feet. I would concentrate on paying down the mortgage and dont take on any other debt.

you will need a small tractor, 4000$ to keep the land maintained and till the garden etc. they are worth their weight in gold.

Good luck its a wonderful adventure. Love my place. Its lots of work but every day I say, I love this place

I was thinking the same thing!! You are all so welcoming and helpful!!

Unfortunately for us, we are products of the world around us and we DO have debt...2 car payments (one ends in just over a year, the other ends in 3 years), I have student loan debt out the rear (which will probably never get paid because the field I went into makes crap for money-wish they would have taught me THAT in school, lol)...and we both have at least 1 credit card. I can't say that I am glad or proud we have debt and we are working every day to get out of debt. BUT, we will probably never be able to afford a house without taking out a mortgage loan. We have set our monthly price at no more than $800 a month (including insurance and such).

I guess when everyone here talks about setting goals I really have no idea what my goals will be at this time. Ideally I would LOVE to be off the grid. Right now, I don't see that as being very likely. As much as I would love to have us buy a place, have zero debt, be off the grid, quit our jobs and be 100% independent...I would settle for being somewhat independent and just being closer to nature and having the piece of mind that I have certain skill in case S(really did)HTF.

My first place was a small log cabin on 55 acres. No elec., water or heat. We rented it for $ 75. a month which paid the owners taxes. He allowed us to take all the money we spent in upgrades off of the rent. This was the late 70's,we stayed there 5 years. Maybe you can find such a situation.

Didn't read all the replies, but here are my two cents.

We left our "regular" jobs and started homesteading full time in 2008 and then had to start over again here in Missouri in 2010. If we had to do it over again, we would have gotten a place with a house already on it. One that maybe had a basement and a hill side facing South so the basement could be turned into a walk out. We'd just live in the basement, cooler in summer and warmer in the winter. A place that already had a water system. We started with just land. We built a house for my MIL, but we're still in the "temporary" RV.

Prepare for everything to cost 3 - 4 times what you think it will and to take that much longer to do as well. Things break a lot and especially if you are learning as you go, you will mess up a lot. Also it seems like we're in a state of permanent temporary. Take time to do things right, if you build something temporary and it half-way works, then you'll be stuck with it for a long time.

You and your partner have to be 100% committed to it and talk about what you have in mind for who does what and how much time a day you spend working. Keep in mind if you have gardens and animals, you will probably never see another vacation day. It's a 7 day a week job and all day, even in the worst weather.

The best way to build a low maint garden is start with a base of old rotting wood logs (not walnut or cedar obviously) and start layering with compost, dirt, grass clippings more wood etc till you have a nice tall mound. It's called huglekulture and it's the best thing we've done out here. Lowest maint garden around and we watered once. Then surround that with 75% wild flowers and that helps wiith the pest problems.

The rewards are tremendous, but this life has been hard on our bodies. We hope when we get our house finished we can slow down a bit. The no-till beds and hugle beds are doing great and are pretty low maint.

The other bit of advice, if you want trees... Build a tree nursery. A nice raised bed with great soil close to home and water. Plant your little babies there surrounded by clover and tend to them while you are building nice beds for them out on the property. Then over the course of a few years, transfer them out. Learn about permaculture, companion planting and guilds.

Don't go crazy mowing down every "weed" you see or cutting down trees. When you move into a place, learn about the plants that are already growing and how you can use them. When we first moved here we had a neighbor tell us to dig up all the multiflora roses and that the dwarf sumac was poisonous. The rose hips are one of our primary incomes. We've found that the frost weed has helped with flea beetles, the cinquefoil helps with aphids, the roses and gaura help with Japanese beetles etc...

Use what is there, observe how different plants grow together and don't immediately disrupt the harmony of the place like a tourist. Recently a few miles down the road, two properties were bought and both households cleared most trees (one place cut down almost 100 acres worth), put them in huge piles and burned them. I cried. What a waste. This can cause flooding, top soil loss and is such a tremendous waste. If they didn't want to burn the wood for the winter, they could have let the logs start decomposing and built gardens over them or given them away or any number of things.

I love our life here and am so glad we did it, but it can be hard and frustrating sometimes. The joys outweigh the hardships though.

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Our website promoting the use of Missouri Herbs. www.MissouriHerbs.com

First things first, pay off the credit card, car loans, student loan. Best way is a debt snowball. Take the debt with with smallest balance, and pay as much as you can afford to get it paid off. Make minimum payments on the other loans. When the first loan is paid off, apply that to the next loan, etc. Check out WWW.daveramsey.com he explains it better.

Getting rid of your debt means when you do buy a place, even with a mortgage, it will be the only debt you have. That's what I did when I bought my place, no credit cards no loans, just my mortgage payment. And don't go into debt to get things like fencing or tractors. Trying to build a place and paying debt can get you down really fast. So save, and think used, not new. Credit is actually a new concept, and our grandparents and great-grandparents thought credit was foolish.

Going this route may take longer to get your place, but being out of debt first is the best way, and well help with your fiancé feeling better about the whole thing. And IMO the two of you shouldn't purchase a place together until after you are married.

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Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein

Paradox, I don't want to rain on your parade, but your statement is not necessarily true.

There are three different "species" of squash and they will cross with one another (sort of).

Pepo (zucchini, yellow summer, acorn, spaghetti, delicata and pumpkin).

Moschata (Butternut, Long Island cheese)

Maxima (Amber cup, Banana, Hubbard, Turban)

If you plant a pure seed, the squash will look like it's parent, but if the pollinators are visiting one of the other types of squash (up to a half-mile away), the seeds will produce a cross between the two parents.

Try this: put up a wire fence, but make it loose and wavy. Then go in about 4 feet and put up another fence all loose and wavy. They don't like that.

Some posters have hinted about this, but I'll say it a little stronger - there's no way that I would quit my job and live off of fiance's money. Should he get tired of the whole mess and walk out, you're stuck with the whole shebang - the mortgage, taxes, bills - and no income. I would advise not doing this until you get a legal commitment from the fiance (ie: marriage). At least you'll have some degree of protection, small that it is.

Another good book is "Buy the butter, bake the bread". Sorta breaks down what is and isn't cost effective to do yourself.
Go to the Countryside Family forum and follow the Tightwad tips monthly postings and read the archives.
Countryside Magazine and Backwoods Home magazine are all about self reliance also.
Remember that what makes a homesteader isn't the acreage, it's the attitude. When I had a small child I was concentrating on gardening and sewing. Sewing turned out tobe a no-go for me, I have occasionally thought about picking it back up. Used to complain I had a "black thumb:" but when I treated it like school- ie- learning a new skill- reading and putting what I read into practice- started really making progress.
My city house is in a city that forbids fowl or mini-goats from being kept. Our city manager dismissed resident requests to identify city owned property that could be used for community gardens, saying that gardens presented the wrong image, it made a community look like it was struggling economically and would bring down property values. The only animal I could raise in the city is rabbits, and it would be difficult since right now we split time between th e city home and the lakefront (retirement) cabin.
In 2001 my goal for the year was to be selfreliant in jams and jellies. I achieved that, but there were problems the next year with building a pantry stock. GFB was not on board with that at all. I had a very hard time figuring out where that came from. You will not know where your partner's sticking points are until you reach them. We had a very difficult struggle, and if I had to say that I found the same pleasure in canning that I did prior to 2002 I would be lying. In fact, even the thought of it makes me feel just horrible. So it is very, very important that you make sure your fiancé is on board, and be prepared that even tho he talks the talk he may not walk the walk.

A few things...

One or a few people have mentioned planting grapes and raspberries and more permanent food sources upon buying land...how expensive are those types of plants? Do you buy and plant seeds or already started plants? How hard are they to maintain?

The comments about me quitting my job...well, my job sucks. I make crap for money and basically work to pay for daycare and gas and only have a little left over. If we move further out, gas bill goes up and I'm now paying to work, which is why I would at least quit this job. Finding another job in the area we move to may be an option but obviously I wouldn't be able to start looking until I knew where we were going to move. If we did all this to the extent that we had a bunch of animals and stuff then I would think that staying home would be best so I could tend to those things. And I plan to ease into that.

The comments about debt: we definitely intend to pay off vehicles and credit cards, for sure! Student loans are a different story. As I stated previously, I make very little money and haven't made a payment to those in years. I am still in good standing with the loan company only because I'm on a program that takes my income and children into account.

About the whole marriage thing...we are engaged, so obviously the plan as of now is to be together forever. I know things and circumstances change of course. But we are actually deciding whether or not we want a "legal" marriage or just a commitment ceremony. Right now, we are leaning towards not signing the papers. I'm sure some of you will have strong opinions about that one, but please be nice =)

Also, thank you for all the book selections. I will be looking for some of those at the library very soon!

If you can find people to get cuttings for the plants from, you can get those started rooting then transplant them after the roots get started. I used to cut and root my raspberry plants to extend the size of my patch... It took a bit to get the process down to where they rooted well, but it was worth it considering I doubled my output....

You can buy small starter plants for not a lot of money too...

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Never let your fear decide your fate!
Kein Mitleid für die Mehrheit

There are quite a few nurseries around where I am now that have trees and herbs and some plants. Maybe in the spring I should check one out just to get an idea of prices.

That's a good place to start... you can also search around on the web.. lots of place and people offering starter plants for decent prices..

Also, I had to wonder about something you said.. It sounds like you intend to find a place near where you live... Are there many places with land around you for sale? Many people living in the city looking for land have to go quite a distance to find anything worthwhile and affordable.. Usually the closer to town a chunk of land is, the more expensive it gets.. We had to go about 5 hours from DC to find a piece of land that was dirt cheap and usable.. .Granted, there was stuff closer, but for a WHOLE lot more than we paid for a whole lot less..

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Never let your fear decide your fate!
Kein Mitleid für die Mehrheit

No, I mean, there are 2 and 3 acre lots maybe 20 minutes from where I am but larger land is quite a bit further. We intend to move north of where we are by an hour or slightly more. So not really too close to where we live now but not several hours away either if that makes sense. If we did find a good couple acres closer to us at a good price we would definitely consider it though!

Ah.. OK... I was wondering because of the jobs.. .My wife and I live about 25 miles from our jobs, and on bad traffic days it can take an hour to an hour and a half, and some odd times even longer. Driving an hour to work, traffic or not becomes a real drag... been there done it too many times..

When we go to move, we're both quitting our jobs and will find new ones... but more than likely, ,we'll be driving an hour to get to them... I'm really dreading that, but we've come to realize that if we want to live in the middle of nowhere, it's the only way it's going to be possible..

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Never let your fear decide your fate!
Kein Mitleid für die Mehrheit

That is why I would be quitting my job where I am now for sure. I already bring home so little after paying for daycare and gas and if we move further out, I will bring home even less if any. So, I would either not work, or find a job closer to where we would be living at that time. He likes his job enough to be willing to drive up to an hour but not more than that (and would be considering also finding a job closer to our new home). The only thing is gas. Right now we don't have vehicles with the best gas mileage so when they are paid off, we want to sell them and buy (with cash) cheaper cars that do better on gas.

I completely understand that the way we live will have to change. Perhaps my biggest priority right now is getting these kids out of these 2 tiny rooms we live in. I want them to have a yard and run free as kids should. Someone earlier mentioned my kids' ages, they are 2 and 7. So, at very least, I want them to have a yard to play in, after that comes my wants/needs for planting and animals and the like. More than likely we won't ever get to a point (not anytime in the near future anyways) where we are totally independent. So we will be "semi-steading" lol or "partial-steading."

Also, note that the fiance strongly desires a lot of land for shooting purposes, so he is on board with the land idea. It is the money that makes him nervous. I get nervous about the money too, but I am the one in the relationship that feels so out of place (that "born in the wrong time" feeling).

He doesn't want anything to do with gardening but would also like animals. He would also have to be working full time, more than likely though, so most of those things would fall and me and the kids to do all the "chores" and all the manly muscle needs would have to be done in the evening or on weekends. Or maybe I will just have to get buff He isn't much of a DIY person, but I am! My dad worked 60+ hours a week when I was young and my mom built all the sheds on her property, she built us a tree/play house, she cut down trees and chopped them for firewood. So I come from strong woman genes=)