Rule at my 'stead is 3 X and you're out!

I think you've been very nice, patient and sound like the type of person I'd enjoy as a neighbor.
So, my advice to you is list everything you've written here - with approximate dates then turn it ALL over to the sheriff. They're gong to want as much information as possible. The more you can substantiate your claim the better. Ask them about sort sort of restraining order (on a church run group - ha!). Yes I know the pros & con's of a restraining order, but anything helps to back up what you want.

Or you can continue being nice and get the same results.

Christian is as Christian does. Treat them like the common thieves they are.

geo

Stop talking to them. They know exactly what is going on and are treating you like a doormat. Go to the sheriff, bring photos. If you know where they are coming in, take photos of that, too.

Next time their dog visits your property, make no phone calls, SSS. Although, I'd get the dog into my car and take it to an animal shelter in a different county. If I couldn't get it into the car, SSS.

If the camp is affiliated with the 7th Day Adventist Church I would also fire off all of your information to Church headquarters. They should be able to stop this, no Church wants the sort of bad publicity that would come from a news story about them encouraging theft.

If it weren't for the fact it was open to the public and you were in California, I'd recommend setting up some targets in the area with the bulleyes nicely shot out and take some time to practice in that field. Oh, well.

I have to agree with small claims court. File a claim for the maximum amount possible. (Stolen property, damages to fence and grounds, lost time for court, court costs, etc.) On top of the sheriff visiting them, court might put the fear of God - finally - into them.

ETA: Is Captain Dreadlocks running the camp now? ;)

I think the Seventh Day Adventists have a central governing body, I would start with the largest local church, and find out who controls the camp. A Christian organization should be very upset with members/employees that are behaving this way and should put an end to it quickly. I would do this even if the Sheriff gets it stopped. What they are doing is theft, supported by the church. Not good. And I'm sure someone would really want to know what is going on and the impression their church is making on the public.

Simple solution. Install hot wires at 3 different places. They won't come back once they get zapped. Make sure it's set high enough to zap a horse. It'll pack a wallop but they won't attempt to do it again.

We're waiting to hear what the Sheriff said.

I'm sorry but unless you see the owners or people running it on your property you probably don't have much of a case(unless there is a way to identify the trespassers). I know this from personal experience. I was given permission to hunt a piece of land one time. The land wasn't owned by the person who gave me permission, after all. It cost me a lot of grief and him nothing. He was the only one who lived around there so I wasn't stretching to assume he owned the land and I was young and not smart enough to know to double check. I could tell everyone of you to trespass on my neighbors property but you are ultimately responsible for your own actions. Also, is there a possibility that they are sending them to their own apple trees and they are ending up on your land by mistake?

There is something else to consider . . . .
 

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Just because a person, a group or a 'church' camp claims

to be "christian", it does't make it so. Herein is a case in point.

These folks aren't .

The Lord gave us instruction in how to help identify such people.

"You will know them by their fruits.-
Grapes are not gathered from thorn-
bushes-nor figs from thistles, are they "- Matthew 7:14

And yet again, for emphasis in Matthew 7:20 -

"So then, you will-know them by their fruits. "

These folks are thieves . . . plain and simple.

What you know about them (their character) is 'their' fruits,

which, coincidently, just happen to belong to you! [Pun may possibly be intentional]

Prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law each & every time.

Spot on CC, Spot on.

It bothers me that your communication with them seems to have been verbal over all these years?? Making it hard to prove you have repeatedly warned them and brought the problem to their attention. Wish you had sent them a certified letter or two to be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they were informed.

It seems to make it tougher to deal with because it's a "you pick" orchard and you don't want to scare away your paying customers with electric fences and razor wire and forceful signs, etc. You probably don't want that kind of liability for your business, either. How do you keep it appealing for the paying guests and still make it unappealing for the thieves? A real dilemma.

Hope the sheriff does a good job for you.

How about LARGE copies of the photos posted around town saying "Have you seen these thieves?" Or get in touch with the local newspaper and have them put photos in an article discussing the long standing crime wave...

Mary

It would seem to be far past the point of sensible to try talking to them again, but possibly you might do so with a camcorder in hand, stating you have it as you turn it on and that you want to document the conversation for possible legal purposes, swinging the cam around to include the surroundings and other people (and dogs) present. Ups the ante on them some and might give you something to show to higher-ups in their church as well as the sheriff, unless taking that action would be invasion of privacy or such in Calif. Written trail with receipt-sign required from here on is needed, too, if the law doesn't get them stopped pronto after all this.

If you confront someone running the camp while a bunch of their patrons are standing around watching, you might get the listeners to thinking as they hear their pious camp-runners lying through their teeth.

Now that people possibly including the camp inhabitants are likely to see those game cam photos, I'd for sure MOVE that camera a distance away and conceal it well, unless there's no way at all the trespassers can mentally trace the angle and now know how to just go there and swipe the camera. too.

I want to thank everyone for their responses. This morning Hubby went down to check things out on the trail they entered by. I had originally put 7 No Trespassing signs up. Three had been stolen. One was torn and laying on the ground. 2, which I had affixed to wood, and put them as high up as I could, by backing my ATV up to a tree, standing on it and reaching up as far as I could, were still there. I took photos of them.

I had to make a run to the nearest little berg. I had my iPad, and showed the pictures around to some of my friends there. Nobody recognized most of the trespassers. But two people recognized the very large older lady, as a local physician! What a shocker! I'm told she has a busy practice. One might think that she could have afforded to pay for apples rather than stealing them.

Anyway, I looked her up, and she is affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist Medical Center. She attended the Seventh a Day Adventist university and did her residency and internship at that same hospital. I believe she and the others parked at the neighboring camp, and hiked over from there.

Whenever I've spoken to the sheriff about trespassers, he always asks if our boundary is marked No Trespassing.

So I sent him another email this morning with the pictures of the signs. I gave him the lady's name and phone number, and told him I wanted to press charges.

He may not be working this weekend, but I expect to hear from him soon. I'll let you all know what he says.

Nice detective work finding a name of one of them! And good for you pressing charges. There's no excuse for their disrespect of your property rights.

After you talk to the sheriff take copies of the pics to a lawyer.

I would invite all of them over for some apple pie. Then appoint them guardians of the orchard. Then make them stewards of the trees.. Then ask them to fertilize, spray and prune when necessary. Then make them participate in the harvest. ...maybe they can do all the harvesting. After they see how much work it is.. They'll leave the orchard alone.

As an SDA, I have no respect for what any of that bunch is doing. They are wrong to be stealing and I will not stand by them as they commit acts of theft. They are not living according to what the Bible teaches or what the church teaches.

I am sorry you are experiencing this from people who should know better. I hope you won't condemn the entire global church organization for the actions of a few who do not represent our beliefs at all in their actions.

FWIW, there are numerous SDA offshoots as well as the official church, some of which do have some rather "out there" ideas. Whether some of them actually dismiss the commandment not to steal (officially), I do not know as I haven't kept up with the offshoot groups.

I whole-heartedly agree with your decision to pursue this and if sitting on a jury listening to the facts as presented, would award you full damages without question. Stealing is stealing, no matter what label they paint on themselves. I am sorry that they've not only stolen but taken the Lord's name in vain (by labeling themselves as followers of Christ while doing the deeds of the devil).

Were I in a position to do so, I would compensate you myself, for the loss you have suffered and would also be involved in advocating on your behalf with any local church body that happens to be close by. Sin is sin, no matter how high and mighty the sinner may be. God is no respecter of persons and his law applies to all of us from the greatest to the least.

(Phew... had to get that off my chest.)

Well, if your orchard is fenced, If it was mine.....I'd find out how fast who ever it was could run from a nice young Bramha bull...Red Sindhi or cross.....they're the ones that look like ole Satan himself! Post warning sign on your electric fence too.....if Californy law requires it.

Thank you Bellyman, I was wondering if their teachings were different from my own biblical understanding and moral compass. Because so many of the SDA folks that I've found in my orchard over the years couldn't grasp the concept that they were stealing or even trespassing.

I never assumed that this branch was an offshoot. I assumed that it is the main group. We are just up the mountain from Loma Linda, and that is a massive SDA hub. And many of the residents of surrounding communities are also SDA. I thank you for your sentiments. I wouldn't accept your money if offered. You have done me no harm.

The thought that has really bothered me about the religious aspect of this is this. I am a Christian. But what if I weren't? What if I were grappling with questions about salvation, and these folks were the one group of Christians that I looked at, not just as examples of the SDA church, but all Christians. In this location, that is a very viable scenario, because they are the biggest contingent around these parts. I would be horrified by the hypocrisy, and avoid all churches and Christians in general. I would be embittered because of the theft and monetary losses, the violation of my rights, the disrespect of my Hubby and I, etc. They really are terrible witnesses of their faith. And I REALLY hate to think of any group with such negativity, especially Christians.

They didn't take good care of it when they owned it. I don't think they would do a better job for me than they did for themselves.

That's part of what makes me wonder what kind of guests they have. Maybe they are telling the guests they are friends of yours & not worry about the signs & such. Still I would really have to wonder about crawling under the barb wire.
Seems to me when your friends with someone you come through the front door so's to speak. Not past the signs & fence that say get out.

I might call the doctor's office and talk to her. Of course you will have to tell the receptionist why you want to talk to her. Maybe she can give you some idea of what is going on and why they have decided to use the farm as if it was still theirs. Is it possible the members do not know the land was sold? This is a bizarre way for a group that calls themselves Christian to behave, especially when at least one of them seems to be a respected member of the community.

Tatar:
I've been pondering on this awhile and considering
exactly what makes them so brazen and bold in their thievery.
When you mentioned that a prominent doctor had been identified as a local,
it occurred to me to ask if you know exactly where the sheriff goes on Saturday mornings?

Something to consider. Make a copy of the tape to give to him.

Keep the original in a very safe place.

I've sent off an email to a friend who's higher up in the organization than myself to see if there's any advice he might have. I'll be interested to hear what he might say.

You are taking action from the legal end locally. I'm poking at the church structure end. Maybe something will happen from both ends. (?)

I don't know if more specifics would be helpful internally or whether the organization may have some knowledge already. If you feel the desire to forward some of the particulars by PM, I may be able to pass along that info internally, not sure yet. If not, no big deal. I don't know any of them personally and have actually never been to CA at all. But it still ruffles my feathers big time when people act like that while wearing a Christian label, SDA or otherwise.

FWIW...

I don't know where he goes, but I doubt he goes to an SDA church. The local SDA. Folks are vegetarians, and the a Sheriff is an avid hunter.

While most SDA are vegans . . .
 

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I know of no restriction that prevents them from hunting.

He could give the meat away . . .

Would certainly check it out to eliminate

that possibility that the camp has built-in protection from prosecution.

Wouldn't hurt to also check on the county prosecutor and judge(s) as well.

Wow, best answer...

Love this, but The Tators shouldn't have to pay the expense of a bull & its lodging/feed/etc.

Fiist I would see what the sheriff does - if I didn't get any satisfaction I would hire a couple guys to patrol the place - when they see some unauthorized person or people on your land have them confront them and make them leave - if they won't leave I'd have them remove the trespassers - using force if necessary - sounds like you have tried everything else so there isn't much else you can do - except maybe get a lawyer and sue the camp - it's the sheriff's job to arrest any trespassers - you can always call him when you see trespassers on your property - he should come and arrest them - if he doesn't then I'd hire some guys to do the job -

I've been debating the SDA folks for over 5 years. They have no respect for the rules of a forum. They repeated lie and falsely accuse to the point of legal slander. They never apologize or change their behavior. They have no respect from me. They even refuse to identify themselves as SDA. Problem is their presentation identifies and betrays them just like Peter's speech pattern at Jesus' mock trial.

My SDA neighbor has tried for 13 years to convert me. It came to the point I had to tell him not to come back to my property. I don't want them as neighbors.

Not all SDAs are created equal, nor are Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Mormons, etc., etc.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with an SDA. I've had some bad experiences with numerous of other faiths and don't hold it against the group. It's usually the individuals, mostly unintentionally, that offend.

Personally, I desire to live according to the Bible the best way I can. I desire to live as Christ would have me to. I don't believe in badgering people with my religion and am also offended when others do that to me. (And yes, that has even been other SDAs on a few occasions.)

Not a whole lot more I can say. I can't defend bad behavior by others. Doesn't mean I'll throw out my faith, though.

Peace.

Yeah I bet a bull would eat his way through a whole lot more apples than the thieves!

Not to mention the fact that I thing CT has lost a horse in the past from someone trespassing and leaving a gate open. Did you ever find that horse, CT?

Could you make up "wanted" style posters with the picture and put them around town?

I think I mentioned once before the security cameras that we have that are activated by motion and send messages to our cell phones or email. But you have to have internet service there to use them. At least if you were there and they trespassed you could intercept them immediately.
It's kind of impressive, they nerve they had...coming in even while you were there on the premises.

We never saw her again. I spent two days trying to track her, and never saw a single hoof print outside our property. She knows where the nearest water outside the property is. A nice, clear water creek. She would have headed straight there.

My theory is that she must have been shot. She just wasn't a nice enough horse to risk stealing. She was ornery and very skinny. But her chestnut color was exactly the same as a bear that I had seen on the property. I wonder if the guy that cut the chain on our gate, was a bear hunter. She might have been shot, either on accident, or on purpose. Some people do like horse meat.

I would love to have these. They don't offer DSL up here. We have a wireless hotspot that we use here for Internet. You have to be within 50 feet to get a signal. This end of the property where these folks entered is between 1/4 and 1/3 of a mile from the house.

Maybe place a sign as close to their entrance as you can stating all Apple thieves will be prosecuted... Also place an ad in the local newspaper asking the public for help identifying these Apple thieves. Don't let on you know who the Dr. Is. The embarrassment factor would let her/them know you have pictures.