Planning your path to Self-Sufficiency, Long-term

I've said the same thing. Just feel nervous about reducing investments and taking advantage of compound interest at the expense of self-sufficiency. Not sure where the greater payback is.

I'm don't know anything about the SEER 26, but the reasons I was looking at geothermal over wood stove is a couple things. One, I'm thinking if we stay on the property well into retirement, I'm not sure I want to have to cut a bunch of wood in my old age. Two, I am a "weekend homesteader" now and I'm figuring a bunch of wood all the time will eat into time I want to spend on other self-sufficiency projects. Three, I am assuming geothermal would raise the home value or at least keep it the same whereas a wood stove might reduce the value. I may be wrong there but that's my gut.

Nope. I have a 13yo kid. See the above recent posts for a hint of my frustration there. That said, she does help for a couple months out of the year with the grass-mowing, but she goes to her other family for most of the summer, which leaves me to do the mowing.

Not sure. Need to sit down and do the math. Regardless, I probably need to live with the old appliances though until after the utilities are updated.

I was just thinking of increasing the home value, but you're right it is a nice to have. The current master suite is pretty small and won't attract any modern-day buyers if we find ourselves in a position where we have to sell. (And I'm paranoid about that. I've had to move 4 times in 7 years - I am hopeful this will be the last time for decades to come.)

We have 20 acres. 10 acres are a soybean field which we rent out. 6 acres is wooded. The homesite is on 4 acres. We have a garden on part of that and we also have a large barn. The rest of the "mowed" part is a little too shady for a lot of gardening, though we're trying to figure out how to change that. The main reasons we mow are to have a large open area for the kids to play, to keep the property from being overgrown by poison ivy (our woods already is), and because I'm maintaining the grassuntil I figure out what we want to do with it.

That's why I'm thinking geothermal over wood stove... metal roof over asphalt... and raised beds & "Back to Eden" gardening over tilling the land.

It's certainly not at the top of the list. We are adequate on space right now, and it's certainly a want at this stage in life. However, if we do end up staying here well into retirement, it would allow us have one-floor living. And you mentioned BnB? My wife's dream, and I'm ok with that too, though I don't think I would want to live in my BnB.

I've thought about that... which is why I also had wind and/or solar on the list for my own power generation. I'm not really sure what any other options are though. I'm assuming they'll wear out at some point and HAVE to be replaced. What else would you replace them with? I'm not sure not having a refrigerator is an option for us, at least not while the grid is still up.

I don't think we would raise a lot of livestock. Maybe some chickens, turkeys and 1 hog & cow per year, just for personal consumption. I have thought about raising them to sell or perhaps a few exotic animals for other income (reindeer, alpaca, e.g.)

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Agreed. This would be a family business, run primarily by my wife full-time and employing my kids.

Who said I want it all?

I moved to the country to live a better life, not an inferior one. For more freedom, not less. Because eggs are cheaper in the country.

I want to be self-sufficient. I want my kids to learn valuable skills in self-sufficiency. But I also want them to have options in the future to make their own paths.

I am also ambitious, an idea machine, and have strong mental capacity. I can't go through any single one task without thinking of how to make it better or more efficient. And as such, I sometimes get overwhelmed and don't know which tasks to do first. There are at least 1-2 nights a week that I can't sleep, not because I have a guilty conscience or am filled with worry, but rather because I can't stop thinking about how to make things better.

I also have a wife, and while our dream is to life a self-sufficient lifestyle, as her husband my dream is also to make her dreams come true. Sometimes that involves wanting things we don't need.

If it were just me, I would live in a storage bin. But it's not just me, and I throw my heart and soul into this family unit.

And by the way, "having it all", if I could have it would be pretty self-sufficient if you ask me. I would think a multi-millionaire, if he wanted to, would find self-sufficiency pretty easy, so I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to it or dreaming about it.

No sympathies from me to you either.

Here's my advice. Enjoy the ride. I know how engineers are, I work with lots of them and they are result oriented. Turn your black and white path of goals into shades of gray. You will NEVER accomplish all you want to. Accept that from the get-go. You sound like a great family man, so include them along the way. They don't have to think like you, or have the same goals. Find out what their interests are and join together as a family unit to have fun together. Also accept the fact that just because people on the internet give you advice, they may or may not even have a homestead and don't even know what they're talking about. They could just be dreamers. You could be far ahead of the curve of the folks you are asking questions and don't even know it. I've seen people here say they are on a tight budget and have a bad electrical receptacle in the house that needs replaced ask for help and the advice would be to have a professional contractor come in and rewire the house. Please. Enjoy your life, set some goals, include your family, take family vacations even if it's just to camp at somebody's farm pond. Discard or ignore harsh or irrelevant advice here or elsewhere. Good luck to you and you're family and I'd always be interested in hearing how you're doing. I have about 80 acres here in the middle of the woods and a lot of things I have to do for myself so if there's any way I can help just holler. And I can say if I need some engineering help, like on the spring house I want to build, I'll holler too. Take care. WWF

A college education is great and "can" be the bedrock upon which one's financial success is built...as long as the chosen area of study builds skills which are in high demand.

My youngest brother spent four years in college, graduated magna cum laude (missed summa by less than one point), and received a degree in History. After looking far and wide for a job where he could put his degree to good use ("any" use is more like it!), he finally ended up on the line at a snack factory. He likes the work, but he feels all those years and $$$ spent were for nothing...I feel, in "his" case, he is correct.

I completely agree - your kids can learn a lot about self sufficiency from the life style that you want to live but they should have options for their own life - and the best option is education.

My Dad was an engineer (amongst other things) and he was also always thinking of ways to improve things - sometimes to the point of total distraction from the original task and overcomplicating things.

My advice (from our own homesteading days) is to simplify, get as much started and operating efficiently and then improve and change. In other words a chicken house can just be some wooden crates cobbled together with a chicken wire fence. You can build the actual house with the nesting boxes etc. later.

My favourite engineer joke:
On a beautiful Sunday afternoon in the midst of the French Revolution the revolting citizens led a priest, a drunkard and an engineer to the guillotine.

They ask the priest if he wants to face up or down when he meets his fate. The priest says he would like to face up so he will be looking towards heaven when he dies. They raise the blade of the guillotine and release it. It comes speeding down and suddenly stops just inches from his neck. The authorities take this as divine intervention and release the priest.


The drunkard comes to the guillotine next. He also decides to die face up, hoping that he will be as fortunate as the priest. They raise the blade of the guillotine and release it. It comes speeding down and suddenly stops just inches from his neck. Again, the authorities take this as a sign of divine intervention, and they release the drunkard as well.
Next is the engineer. He, too, decides to die facing up. As they slowly raise the blade of the guillotine, the engineer suddenly says, "Hey, I see what your problem is ..."

WHile I agree that it can be somewhat foolish to pursue a degree for which there is no market, any degree has value. In the DC area, to work on many gov't contracts you need a BS/BA in ANY field. It demonstrates an ability, albeit not always accurately, to write, work with others, organize work, etc.

Your bro could also go back and get a 2 year MAT (something approximating Masters at Teaching) and get a decent paying job making a bit more than the average teacher.

A 4 year degree in history is sort of like completing only one year of a two year plumber apprenticeship. You learned something but not enough to punch your ticket for a career in that field.

Having it or someone else doing it is not self sufficiency. Eggs cheaper in the country? My point exactly, you can buy eggs cheaper in the store, quality, no. It costs a lot to have the best, right now. Better life, the same, you're way, you will be a slave to somebody. The rest....I didn't say not to keep what you have or go back to less, I said to reevaluate what you want and what you need so that you can make decisions and not be paralyzed by it. You have to find your place in the world, then....go for it. You asked, I gave you my opinion, after reading and seeing you defend your reasoning. Your mind is made up, Again, do what you want, it is your life, makes no difference to me, no problem here....James

I never said anything about having it all right now. There are certain things that need to happen soon, and some things that need to happen later, but would be nice to have them happen soon, too.

That's why this post is about planning - I'm asking how everyone goes about planning their homestead now, homestead near future, and homestead future.

It's difficult to stay focused on a single task when all of them are interesting, hence my need for a plan.

That is why I suggested you figure out wants from needs, then list the needs in order. Then wants and list them in order. There is no right or wrong, each person and situation is different. Only you can make those decisions. Break it down so you can deal with the first 2-3 and "dream" about the rest to come up with how you will do that when you get to it. You are in the "overwhelmed" stage, so much to do, not enough money to go around. This is why I suggest to all newcomers to homesteading to start small so that does not happen. IF you buy small, get things done, you are on your way. You can then move to a bigger place. IF you buy big, don't get much done and lose interest, can not sustain the dream, you (not you, anybody new and trying) can/will lose so much that they may never get back to homesteading....James

We are overwhelmed. But I don't think it has to do with buying too big. We have 20 acres, yes, but currently we only utilize 4 of it. We rent out the 10 acre field to another farmer until we can figure out what to do with it. And the 6 acres of woods is for nothing except mushroom hunting.

Sell the lawn mower. Buy a 50mile fence charger, 3 ground rods, 3 ground clamps and 4000' of 12.5ga tensile wire. I hope you can fence an area by stringing insulators on trees, if not, you'll need fence posts. T-posts are durable and relatively easy ($4+ ea). Fiberglass posts can be cheaper($1+ ea). Try really hard to borrow a neighbor's expertise as well has their tools, long enough to learn how to assemble a high-tensile electric fence. Price per foot, high-tensile electric is the cheapest, most effective, and easiest once you own the tools and get past the learning curve. For starters, you need two strands of electric. One about knee high, and one about hip high. Once the fence is HOT, go buy a 400 lb steer. Break it to halter.

The 13yo now has a job , You now have livestock on your property that you will eat in 12-18 months, -- I'm politely ignoring the solar and wind power jokes concerning an animal that consumes solar energy and produces wind energy lol -- The neighbors will slow down and stare at your steer, every time they drive by . . . creating a future attraction and desire for the general store and produce stand. And you can redirect the tractor and mower money into the mortgage instead

Yes, I do apologize for the tongue-in-cheek humor, but I also hope my "spoonful of sugar" helps you see the possibilities. Furthermore, I practice what I preach. I'm a few years down the road from you, but I still remember getting started from nothing. If it helps, our 15yo helps with the baby bull (500+lbs) that wanders around our yard, mowing our grass.

You talk about saving for retirement? Me, I'm heavily invested in the "stock" Market (pun intended). My wife has a day job, but I have a night job as well as 2 or 3 self-employment ventures that help raise the necessary cash. Last year, I invested over $10k in our retirement; however, my "stock" Market is not directly influenced by the NYSE and has real, physical value.

P.S. Once the cow works out and you save a few more pennies, upgrade your fence to 6-strands on an 8 inch spacing, with wires 1,3,5 (from the ground) being HOT and wires 2,4,6 being GROUND. Congratulations! You can now have goats AND pigs!

PPS: Once you build your confidence, skill, and experience, go ahead and plan to fence your entire perimeter with the 6-strand high-tensile electric. Only this time, put in properly constructed corners and posts! Now you have a fence that will last 50+ years, look attractive, raise the property value and be far cheaper than any alternative.

PPPS: Must be some really good mushrooms!

This is key to the college discussion. I fully support anyone going to college who expresses a desire to go. Even if it's the now 13 y.o. who wants to major in art history. Why? Ideally college teaches you critical thinking, it opens up new ideas and new worlds, and helps you figure out who you are and what you want to do. Not many 14-18 y.o.'s really know that.

A true entrepreneur (the 2nd kid above described by Bellyman) only needs certain classes or information to get ahead, while a more lost child, which really is more common, needs to still be learning who she/he is at that age.

(Sorry Bellyman to cut out so much more of your post which is very relevant, but not to my post!)

As for all the rest of planning, little bit by little bit, needs before wants.

And I have to ask, what was that line about a life insurance on the kids so they can have it in the future? Sounds like a total scam to me. No one needs life insurance unless they have a spouse who doesn't work and kids to support or they want to make sure their spouse can pay off a mortgage, debt etc if they die. A single person doesn't need life insurance and much less a kid. If it's only pennies more, no big deal, but if it's more seriously rethink that.

I am married to an engineer, so understand the overthinking and overplanning. It is the bane of my life. However, as so many others have said - you REALLY need to sort out your wants and needs. I do understand about having to take into consideration your wife's desires, but I would bet that if you asked her to define "kitchen upgrade" she would probably want a different color scheme and surfaces that make her life a bit easier - not a tear-it-to-the-walls and spend the next year rebuilding it. Ditto the new addition. If you are going to spend so much energy making this place your homestead, why be worrying about things that will up the possible resale value? If you decide to sell, THEN spend some time and a LITTLE money making changes that will affect the value and leave the rest. It will all have to be redone before selling anyway.

Goats or hair sheep will take care of the poison ivy. You will need to have a pretty hot and high fence (5 wires) for goats, but they will have that woodland pristine of weeds in short order, and produce milk and meat. Sheep will gladly do the mowing for you, do not need as much fencing, but they are not as a rule much of a milker (there are some breeds bred for milk). Mine will browse but prefer grass. Truly free ranging chickens will provide eggs almost free in the summer. You have to feed them over winter, though. My cow and bull are basically pasture ornaments, though they do reliably produce me a calf each year for either eating or selling. If I were to downsize species, though, they would be the ones to go. If you plan on livestock I would suggest you start small (chickens) and work on up to cattle. Learn what you can about a species before acquiring it, but remember that animals can't read, so they just do their own thing and you have to figure it out. My DH knows all there is to know about all our animals even though he does very little with them, and I'm not complaining about that!

You say that there are lots of things your wife would like to do or learn - I would say that she probably needs to do so before thinking about a store. Everything has a learning curve and you generally need to do a lot of practice before becoming proficient enough to be marketable. I used to make soaps and toiletries, but it is very time consuming and you need to keep a fair amount on hand in order to sell. And forget puppies. To raise a dog who is good enough and healthy enough to be a desirable breeding animal will cost you more than you will get for the pups. Believe me on that. I raised and showed dogs for years. If I hadn't I would be dripping in diamonds and driving a Lamborghini. If that doesn't put you off, you need to read the APHIS/USDA rules that will come into effect very soon. They should stop you cold in your tracks.

Mary

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In politics the truth is just the lie you believe most - unknown

How long have you been on the property? What have you done? What has worked well, what has not? What do you think is the #1 need right now, #2, #3. What is #1 want, #2. Now where do you want to be in 5 years, 10 years. You are worrying about things that are keeping you from moving on. IF you really want to do this (You being the whole family) Pick one small thing, do it. Did it work? No? Maybe you learned something that you can use, change priority or....it worked and that knowledge and confidence will help in the journey. Have I been tough on you? Yes. YOU moved out there, did you have any kind of plan or just a dream? You need/needed a dose of reality, I think it is sinking in. My comment about your "dream" being too big was not just about the property, it is being realistic about your assets (knowledge, experience, etc). I think your eyes were/are bigger than your stomach (as Grandad used to say) One bite at a time wins the contest. Now, homework, start that list here, these good people will not let you lose what you have gained. You asked for help, listen and you will not be disappointed. Doesn't mean you have to do any of it, just learn from the experience from people that have BTDT and you can learn from their mistakes and their dreams that came true....James

Sleuth, if you try to do everything at once you will go crazy. During the days when the Midwest was being settled there were only TWO main goals: a house and a crop of grain, an they were working at it from dawn to dusk! We are not talking about a large grainfield, either, just a few acres to give food during the winter. Heat was also a concern but I know of one homestead that bought wood and I know of others who gathered buffalo chips.

SO! Like you I am a part timer outside though for different reasons. No matter. ONE year I built a greenhouse, and that was plenty for that year. Another year I had the tuff shed people come in and give me a new hen house, next year I am going to raise corn for part of my chicken feed, and so forth. No I do not have a tractor I have a tiller.

I see that money is a concern for you. OK, what ONE! project can you do that will save you money? You will need to crunch the numbers. The lady across the street has access to free wood, so for her it saved a great deal to put in a wood burning stove. I would have to buy wood so for me it would not be a great deal.

Next year choose a different project.

What helped me the most was to learn recipes to use for leftovers, as my family does not like leftovers. But, leftover chicken can become a chicken and noodle casserole and leftover pork can become chopped BBQ for sandwiches and so forth.

My advice would be for you to look at what you HAVE, and see how it can reduce your household costs. Plan for costs. A garden can cost you $10.00 for seeds and a bag of fertilizer or it can cost you $2,000 for a tiller, the finest seeds, organic fertilizer that you bought instead of made, and so forth. The first garden will help to support you while the second might always cost you more than what you get.

Remember: for us part timers one project a year is enough, and if it is a project that goes into the black at the end of the first year that is awesome! I am certain the lady across the street paid around $1000 to buy her small woodstove and have it properly installed (prices were cheaper 10 years ago), but that first year she bragged her heating costs were $250 while mine was well over $1000. She used her thermostat set own low so her pipes would not freeze on cold nights so she did have some heating costs. Of course she did not mind keeping it burning and your wife might!

Yes, please do. The basic information is at this site but it is scattered. Dave Ramsey did not invent what he is selling he only learned it and practiced it. You can to as long as you are willing to practice what you preach just as Dave Ramsey did. EVERY enterprise has hidden costs: in school I was taught to expect things to run 10% or 15% over. This is one reason you will need to have physical practice before you write.

To start you off: how much does your household need to survive? To learn that, I wrote checks for everything so that I knew where the money went, and I kept track for several months so that I could figure in the sporadic payments such as car insurance. I also included some pocket money for each of us because on a hot day in town a person *WILL* want to grab the odd cold drink or whatever, and they will feel poor if they cannot. Feeling poor leads to splurges just because a body feels deprived. My pocket money is $20 a week-set by me- but some of that has always been shared with kids. If we are all in town I will snack them at the same time I get something for myself.

That will also give you a rough idea of how much you can put into savings, though you will have to figure out how much per year to maintain your home. Also get more info from your wife: if she is like one friend of mine she would be referring to beauty: if she is like my Mother she would want a more convenient layout. If you are going to re do the kitchen there is no point in getting her what she does not care about but not getting her what she does want!.