Need some Well advice. As well as family advice.

oneraddad · #41 09/18/13, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

My point is that the cost of maintaining the well should be figured into the monthly charge. He's getting more than $10 worth of electricity: The well is enduring extra wear and tear due to his usage, so of course he should cover that as well - it certainly isn't covered in the rent he pays to the OP's mother.

Your point don't matter.

He's entitled to the water and has been paying the same $10 for electricity to supply it before the OP was even involved with the property.

arabian knight · #42 09/18/13, 01:01 PM

Also Paul ins't there a wait time before anybody can just transfer property and money over so a elderly person has no assets and go into a nursing home?
To get state and federal help paying for the nursing home you I don;t think can just sign over every thing one day and then the person goes into the nursing home. Like a year or two before that can happen?
Unless there are some special circumstances that would allow it to happen.

rambler · #43 09/18/13, 11:14 PM

The clawback used to be 5 years, for a while now it is three years. Fedral and state laws collide on this....

But yes, the govt can look back for a three or five year period and pull all assets back that were disbursed in that period.

And that is fair enough, good rule really.

Paul

Funbowhunter · #44 09/18/13, 11:50 PM

Is there a written agreement between you and the renter? You would not be out of bounds if there isn't to charge 40 per month.

motdaugrnds · #45 09/19/13, 09:20 AM

This all seems foolish to me in that you needed the well to work for yourself!

If you want out from under what apparently was a verbal agreement with years in standing, then why not drill yourself a different well and leave that one broken?

HOTW · #46 09/19/13, 09:51 AM

First offyou should get together rwith your grandmother and see about getting ont he deed as a surviving owner. Someone mentioned the fact that the entire property could go to medicare which is true, you need to secure it for yourself in a way it is untouchable by the the agency.

As to the well, your mother should be responsible for helping maintain the water well since she IS renting th e trailer. I would charge more money as the well is not just about electric, in town you would be paying for water...

there's a few thigns you need to learn a lot more about because you have no safeguards for yourselves in this situaion

DryHeat · #47 09/19/13, 07:59 PM

Comments on two topics, first, things involved in calculating a fair charge for services to a renter like in this case, water: How long had this pump functioned without any repairs, supplying it sounds like, water to three living units? (And how many years would be expected, on average? Others here would have a better guess on this than would I.) Was the actual repair bill $1100, or $2200 total, the OP didn't make that clear, let's just say $1100 to show how a calculation might go.... Was the repair making it "as good as new" or were other parts of the system still at risk of going bad? Say this was a ten-year full repair (for argument, maybe it lasted twenty, just change the numbers..). Ten years value on the pump makes it roughly $100 a year, split three ways for much of its life, so that would be roughly $3 a month if each of three living units pulled their share over the period of time. Somebody should have figured that amount, or whatever, into what "water was costing" each unit for many years as a basic budget, and rent quote. Another thing that occurs to me, sometimes the failing components on equipment can be much more *time*-linked than usage-volume linked. Maybe what you'd expect to go bad on a pump would be gaskets of some sort that get brittle and crack over ten years regardless of volume pumped, numbers of times cycling on/off, etc. If that were how it worked, including a share of pump expense over time for users in addition to the main owner would sort of be gravy for the owner of the pump; you'd have that sort of expense coming up anyway. IF pump failures work like that. I dunno. Might be the same for a shared septic field, if that happens to be the setup... if a certain reasonable volume the drain field functions OK for 20 or 30 years (?) then needs to be rebuilt for thousands of $$. ($4K in the case of our single-dwelling field a few years back... tank fine but drain field collapsed into a non-functional blob.)

Second topic, agreements with parents and g-parents over inheritances. One minor point, the government function involved is the state's version of Medicaid, not Medicare. Various states work smoothly, or in a constant process of fussing, with the feds over exact Medicaid agreements and rules enforced by the state. AZ where I am has the 5-year clawback and allows ongoing gifts of a *total* of $500 a month. If granny has two offspring, each could be gifted $250 monthly, or one $500 but the other zero, as an ongoing process, but anything more, including to church, charities, etc, can be added up over 5 years backwards and taken out of property assets if not repaid by the heirs IF they had to be placed in a care place on Medicaid's dime. OP hasn't said anything I can recall about issues like competency, Medicaid, assets in bank funds, total numbers of heirs, etc etc and of course such details are mostly none of anybody's beeswax, but there's been a bunch of great points being made. In addition to actual wills, and Medicaid rules, there's that thing called "durable power of attorney" (separate from "medical power of attorney). IF a person getting up in years, but still clear-headed, is very sure that one particular person... relative, friend, attorney all are possible, I suppose... is utterly trustworthy going forward with their finances should they become truly incompetent, there can be a DPOA written up, notarized, and sitting around waiting to be activated. Various relatives might not even know the document exists, but if it does, something like two doctors could certify in writing that the elderly patient can no longer handle their own finances effectively, and if done and in the hands of the person appointed "Agent" it puts them totally in charge. Totally. Property can be sold, bank accounts closed and opened, gifts made, in the name of the now-designated disabled person with really very little accountability or appeal by anyone else. VERY much a nuclear option. YMMV from state to state, of course. In the "right" hands, a DPOA can save an elderly person's assets from being pillaged or wasted by dishonest or stupid or irresponsible relatives or worse, manipulative "friends," but in the "wrong" hands allow just the opposite to happen.

Just sayin', like others have commented, *sometimes* a few hundred to an attorney can straighten things out or at least let you know you have a big problem.... but a few hundred can balloon to a few thousand if there are issues and still leave them unresolved. Sometimes you might be better off detaching your finances from family promises of inheritances and rather, saving for down payment on, or better, outright purchase of, other property with no family interests at all involved.

Shayanna · #48 09/20/13, 06:57 PM

sorry for typos and bad grammar. i'm on my not-so-smart phone. when my gt gpa died, the property went to my gt grandma. she was unable to keep up on a rental and lives 100 miles away and without renters she couldn't pay taxes. so they got 3 years behind before we moved up. by early next summer, when we have taxes paid (which we will have the money to do at that point), the deed will be signed over. the neighboring acre (with the renter on it) was legally sold to my mother by my grandfather like 12 years ago. so my mother's name is not on "our" acre at all.
we found online a typical well share agreement and found it very reasonable. and decided that 10 dollars a month, plus an additional 30 dollars monthly, (40 dollar monthly payment) covers electricity and repairs if necessary. if at the end of the year, no repairs or maintenence were done, the 360 dollars will be refunded.

i explained this to my mother, and she is less than thrilled, and says we will "discuss" this after my daughter's birthday party.

my gt grandmother says she isn't getting wrapped up in this, but as far as she is concerned this property is ours and she will sign any paperwork we need her to.

John_Canada · #49 09/20/13, 07:09 PM

Does your mother own the land she is on? If so, and your Grandmother technically owns the land you are on, there should be a contract between your GM and mother for the use of the well with a monthly bill based on electricity and maintenance.

Cutting the water off is a definite no no. A judge would call you spiteful and make you pay restitution easily! Turn it on and worry about contract afterward.

You need to get that property in your name and tell your mom to dig her own well and deal with her renter as you have nothing to do with him in the eyes of the law.

I feel for your situation. Sounds tense. These things usually work themselves out tho somehow.

Reboopie · #50 09/21/13, 07:09 AM

Family relations can be sticky at best. Have a signed legal agreement with your grandmother to protect yourself and your family.

Double check if in the property deed your mother has covers water rights, if it does not you have no legal requirement to supply water to the property. (I have water rights in my deed for the property across the street from when the farm was split) I think you were correct to turn back on the renters water, he is innocent in the difficulties with your mother.

That being said is it worth damaging your relationship with your mother over $500? That is the question that you have to ask yourself.

Enjoy your daughters party with your mother. Set up a plan for next time and look at this as a valuable learning experience.

wr · #51 09/21/13, 12:26 PM

The comment about the well being grandfathered is a pretty simple concept and you need to talk to a lawyer before you start signing papers. Since the other property has used water from the existing well, with no objections or complaints for many years, there is often a legal implied right to access and while I'm sure laws vary from one location to another, after enough years of the owner providing water, the user does have legal rights to the water supply.

As for the renter, this is absolutely not his fault and it is my understanding that it is assumed that a rental property (unless otherwise stated) is expected to have a proper working furnace and running water and if either fail to work, they can report the property owner to the healthy board, which can result in some steep fines.