Farmers face fines & jail for selling food direct to customer

haypoint · #21 08/19/13, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninny

Seems that the last several cases of salmonella that's been in the news were vegetables that were imported from Mexico. I'm assuming that these were inspected by the FDA. If so, just shows that the inspections aren't working. I would trust a local farmer's product more than I would trust anything imported from a foreign country.

.

The food imported into this country is inspected. About 1% is the average sampling amount. Inspections are working, but you can not expect that everything gets inspected. If everyone selling food must allow random inspections and meet minimum standards, why should methods, like herd shares, be allowed to skirt those standards? Recently, Michigan announced that milk herd shares will be allowed.

NamasteMama · #22 08/19/13, 10:40 AM

So 99% of our food is not inspected. Im clueless as to how if 99% of food is not inspected how inspections are working?

Grumpy old man · #23 08/19/13, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamasteMama

So 99% of our food is not inspected. Im clueless as to how if 99% of food is not inspected how inspections are working?

Go on you tube and search factory egg farming / factory chicken farming /or factory beef farming and you will never buy another piece of meat from a store again .

arabian knight · #24 08/19/13, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamasteMama

So 99% of our food is not inspected. Im clueless as to how if 99% of food is not inspected how inspections are working?

You have to understand the math that is involved with "Random" inspections.
Inspect say two things out of 3,000, you Find Nothing. Those 3,000 have passed inspection through a random inspection, this works in all cases.
Find One in that 3,000 You WILL find more.
Nothing can be inspected much greater then doing this random inspections as this will find the bad. And when one does slip through THAT is when you hear about recalls. Simple as that. And this apples to ALL things made in this world right down to the computer you used to post your message with.
Random Inspections do work. And nothing can be inspected 100%.

farmrbrown · #25 08/19/13, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

If everyone selling food must allow random inspections and meet minimum standards, why should methods, like herd shares, be allowed to skirt those standards? Recently, Michigan announced that milk herd shares will be allowed.

I can answer that. Follow the money.

Where does the money come from that pays the salaries of all the gov't inspectors?
Answer: From confiscating income out out of working people's paychecks.
IOW, they are parasites living off the labor of other people. I don't recall anyone asking permission for this money to be confiscated from me, and being used for this purpose on my behalf. (I know about the ballot box, so don't bother telling me that, I'm talking about a specific request, which is the ONLY way that I consider that permission as being valid)

Now, these private farmers aren't asking to be inspected and neither are the people buying from them.
So, by what logic on what planet is it ok to use confiscated income to finance a service that neither party to the transaction requested or authorized?

BTW that last question was more rhetorical as I already know the canned response by those that work for the Serpent.

NamasteMama · #26 08/19/13, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

You have to understand the math that is involved with "Random" inspections.
Inspect say two things out of 3,000, you Find Nothing. Those 3,000 have passed inspection through a random inspection, this works in all cases.
Find One in that 3,000 You WILL find more.
Nothing can be inspected much greater then doing this random inspections as this will find the bad. And when one does slip through THAT is when you hear about recalls. Simple as that. And this apples to ALL things made in this world right down to the computer you used to post your message with.
Random Inspections do work. And nothing can be inspected 100%.

Yeah but one percent seems hardly adequate

Robotron · #27 08/19/13, 12:38 PM

If you want to learn how to determine a sample size for a population go to this site and read. It is a rather involved process to just get the number to start inspecting anything.
http://bphc.hrsa.gov/policiesregulat...lculating.html

arabian knight · #28 08/19/13, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamasteMama

Yeah but one percent seems hardly adequate

The math and Probability of something wrong comes into place. A bunch of us at work inspecting computer parts did the math and the math works as well as anything does, and inspecting more out of a given "batch" will not give you any better results, that was proven at work, inspecting these said parts.

arabian knight · #29 08/19/13, 12:54 PM

It is basically called The Sampling Distributions For Counts and Proportions, I know it sounds like more parts should be inspected to gain a better handle on what is good and what is bad, but the Math, and Professors that have studied such things for years say it isn't so, and we also proved that fact at work.
A Small Sample inspected out of any given batch does as good as inspecting more in any given patch of parts, or things on a food line.
And believe me they Do inspect at the times given out by that mathematical Sampling probability .
We argued that at work to no avail, Small Sampling out of a given patch works as well as inspecting a large amount. I know it doesn't seem right, but probability, math, science, and statistics wins in the end.

Grumpy old man · #30 08/19/13, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

It is basically called The Sampling Distributions For Counts and Proportions, I know it sounds like more parts should be inspected to gain a better handle on what is good and what is bad, but the Math, and Professors that have studied such things for years say it isn't so, and we also proved that fact at work.
A Small Sample inspected out of any given batch does as good as inspecting more in any given patch of parts, or things on a food line.
And believe me they Do inspect at the times given out by that mathematical Sampling probability .
We argued that at work to no avail, Small Sampling out of a given patch works as well as inspecting a large amount. I know it doesn't seem right, but probability, math, science, and statistics wins in the end.

Why bother ? grow your own food This is a homesteading site isn't it ?I trade with a few local farmers and we all have what we need ,Full freezers ,Meat on the hoof and good gardens/greenhouses to keep fresh food thru the winter . I've never seen or wanted a inspector anywhere near the farm and have no need for them to guarantee anyone anything ! take care of yourself if times do get bad what are you going to do wait on fema ?

paradox · #31 08/19/13, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordoftheweeds

I think this probably has more to do with the govt thinking they are not getting all the taxes and fees they could if they licensed and regulated all the sellers.

Seeing lots of things like this cropping up. There are thousands of pages of regulations (more being created all the time) which allow the government to fine people for this or that. It has been theorized that it is so extensive that every US citizen is currently in violation of some of them that they have never been made aware of. Many of the obscure ones just never get enforced. But now that so many people are out of work,and so many companies are shutting down, that means the government is getting less money in taxes. It also means they are paying out more in social programs. In short, they are starved for cash. So you can expect them to start enforcing all kinds of stuff and collecting fines.

ET1 SS · #32 08/19/13, 07:13 PM

I live in Maine [one of the states listed].

I am an organic farmer. I sell direct to customers.

I also sit on the Board of Directors over the Cooperative Extension office for my county. They use USDA funding to operate a dozen programs which all encourage Farmers, Farmers Markets, and Farm-to-School programs.

I think the Op article is B.S.

farmrbrown · #33 08/19/13, 07:49 PM

The OP article IS cow related, but I wouldn't say BS, lol.

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/05/0...gnty-movement/

In her order, Hancock Superior Court Justice Ann Murray ruled that Brown was not protected under the Blue Hill ordinance. It was a major boost for the argument from the Maine Department of Agriculture, who filed the lawsuit against Brown in 2011, that towns cannot simply opt out of state law.

ET1 SS · #34 08/19/13, 08:01 PM

We have 8 towns that have passed Food Sovereignty laws.

Brown was not marketing inside one of those towns. He lives in one, but he was marketing outside of his town.

farmrbrown · #35 08/19/13, 08:09 PM

Well then, I guess the food Nazis are doing the right thing......

ET1 SS · #36 08/19/13, 08:27 PM

There are farmers, distributing food through private sales, and to schools, restaurants, CSAs, Buyers Clubs, etc.

There is very little regulation of this.

I do it.

There are no retail licenses required, and for the most part there are no inspections.

When it comes to raw milk and meat there are only specific places where those laws have been passed.

I am in a location / circumstance where I can legally sell home butchered meat. I have customers who want me to market un-inspected meats. Some farmers do, some legally and some not. While I could, I don't. I think that some inspections are a good thing.

rambler · #37 08/20/13, 12:34 AM

Two cases in the news in Minnesota right now, an ongoing tussle with an organic raw milk producer living very near me that keeps transporting his milk in bulk 100 miles up to the Twin Cities to deliver it. Minnesota only allows for a buyer to come to the farm to buy raw milk, home deliveries by the farmer are not allowed.

Anyhow no one ever would have noticed, but some bad food borne disease broke out and were traced back to this farm. Well, then, that is a bad thing.

The farmer keeps doing the deliveries of milk, so the case goes on and on. From everything I hear from good people, this is not a very clean or well run farm. And I grew up on raw milk from the cow down in the barn, loved the thick skin on the milk when I was a kid so I'm not trying to judge too much.

The other case is a fella that doesn't refrigerate his eggs, and sells them for weeks later. I don't even understand that, but it just sounds terribly wrong to me. Don't know much more about it, but that I think he should be stopped from what I understand of the deal!

In general tho, I am glad there are avenues for raw milk to be sold, in small scale, in my state. I also like that there is some sort of regulation to keep things so e what safer.

My understanding is that neither of these cases is about ending raw food sales in this state, but more about some poorly run farms that are actually endangering their customers.

Paul

Rockwell Torrey · #38 08/20/13, 08:32 AM

Just the government messing in our lives again.

arabian knight · #39 08/20/13, 09:13 AM

Yes the few bad apples around that don't take care and don't have much of a cleanliness program spoils it for those that do take proper precautions. And that is why the government steps in. They have to do this to protect the rest of the folks from those that are not going to do things correctly enough to provide clean food products. This is just good for all concerned. Has nothing to do with control but has a lot to do with the welfare of the public, which is under the constitution.

Ambereyes · #40 08/20/13, 09:24 AM

Trying to understand the point of this regulation.

Lots of folks here along the border sell things like watermelon and cantaloupe out of trailers on the road side.. Normal thing same folks pretty much every year, does this mean they will have to get inspected and some kind of licensed?