off the grid?

You still have a physical address, whether you use it for mail or not. I lived off the power grid for 13 years. I had a '911' address for my physical location, although in reality, their 'address' was a mile away. For mail, I used my sisters physical address and had a second mailbox set up there.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

One of my favorite meals it seems we only ever have in winter ... I take a fish filet and put in a foil wrapper with some butter and lemon and then just throw it into the hot coals of the wood stove. In about 5 minutes it's done perfectly. Hillbilly microwave.

I may have missed it but I didn't see much about preserving food off grid. I have doubts about having reliable power to operate a freezer off grid, but then commercial power isn't perfect either and freezers do quit running sometimes. That leaves drying and canning. Canning vegetables can be done on a wood stove, my mother did it. I see no reason why it can't be done with a pressure cooker(my mother didn't use a pressure cooker). I think it would require a lot of attention and moving the pressure cooker to cooler parts of the stove as needed, but a little research and careful experimenting should do the trick.

Drying vegetables and fruit is work but not complicated. Wrap a piece of tin in an old bet sheet, put food to be dried on it, place it in the sun, take it in at night of if rain comes. After the food is dried, put it on cookie sheets and place in oven. Heat for a short while, maybe 15 minutes, at maybe 175 degrees. It's been a while and wife doesn't remember details, she just did it. Watch carefully and don't burn food, also don't get it too dry and hard. Purpose of heating is to kill bug eggs which have been laid on the food while being dried. The old folks would take green beans, snap them, a needle and thread, and make strings of snapped green beans which they would hang in the attic to dry. These were called leather britches beans. Fresh sweet corn can be dried after cutting the grains off and going through the drying process. We did that once and the dried corn tasted great when cooked. After the food is dried and heated it must be stored in air tight, or at least insect tight, glass jars.

The op with the children with food allergies will, of course, have to be selective of which food to dry.

The growing season can be extended by using cold frames. Suggest looking up descriptions of them.

COWS

We generally have MORE available power here in the winter. We don't run the freezer much from about March to November, but we do our heavy butchering in November and fill up the freezer then. Since our freezer is outside on the porch, it stays pretty cold and probably only kicks on for a half hour or so per day.

I don't like canning. It's an industrial method that really only came about in the late 19th century. Drying, smoking, and fermenting were the methods used before then.

Everyone loves to think canning is old because their grandmother did it, but your grandmother's grandmother would smoke food, dry it, or ferment it. She would have thought buying jars and lids was insane.

We ferment quite a bit of foods around here, and we dry some meats, but I have yet to learn how to smoke foods. I really want to do that at some point.

ok, lets see what I can remember here...

ummm....

convection oven: I have a propane oven, with a pilot light I already extinguish and relight as needed to preserve fuel. it uses very little energy.

TV: not an issue, don't even own one

food preserving: I'm a chef, been butchering and preserving food without large freezers or fridges for years, so a non-issue as well

Not worried about satellite photos, or the permit people knowing where I am. and don't intend to build without all applicable permits. its a few select people I want to keep away.

911 address? ok.. well if I HAVE to. but I really like the "watch for the smoke" response but I agree with another poster as well, intruders will be bear food, medical emergency we can handle, etc. we've found that 911 is completely useless and don't intend to have anything to do with them ever again.

all the properties we are looking at have first water rights. so also a non-issue. when it was brought up before, I looked into it.

as far as a driveway leading to the house, there won't be one. the driveway will end at a point somewhere else, and we'll get to the house by other means, atvs, snowmobiles, etc.

I was also raised in such a way that you don't own something you can't fix. I know how to fix most things, and am very mechanically inclined. I intend to build most things myself. without getting into too much detail about my knowledge and past etc. I don't just jump into something without researching it thoroughly, but thank you for your concern.

I hope I got it all... been a busy week... and stressful....

Building roads, buildings, bridges etc within a few hundred feet of rivers and streams is regulated in WA. Permits will likely cost thousands. Violations carry fines and you will have to restore any damage. Check, check, check before you buy

911 responses for forest fire reporting and evacuation notices require a physical address. Same for EMS. If you get a permit for anything you will have an address on record. Not all bad.

Before you close on a place with water rights, see the paperwork and have a lawyer go over them. If you have first water rights you can keep them or sell them separately, and many people do.

As Grey Wolf pointed out, building close to a river or even a stream is very regulated in WA. There are many different agencies involved as well, so be sure not to take one agencies advice, or the realtor. If someone is not happy the fines are huge and restoration is required. That will include removing any structure.

Our DD has a stream running through her property so I'm somewhat familiar with the regulations. When a neighbor challenged their water rights it cost over $20,000.00 to defend them. Not defending them meant the neighbor could cause huge amounts of damage to our DD's property.

From what you say you want to do, I would be very suspicious of any larger property within commuting distance to Seattle that seems to be affordable. I think you will find there is a reason they are available.

Wow...that's awesome, and lucky! What brand (and model) of oven is it? That's valuable knowledge to share!

I'll check it and get the model number when I get home. Have been in a hotel room 100 miles from home for the last week... Yuck.... I'm pretty sure its a Vulcan. Its a commercial oven... I haven't purchased any kitchen appliances from a store (like home depot) in so long I'm not sure if I ever have.... Not sure if it is recommended to extinguish the pilot or not. But I do it anyway. Sometimes it just goes out because it feels like it... I'll look at it tho and get back to you on that

The primary one we are looking at is certainly not commuting distance from Seattle... Not any commute the average Joe would be OK with. Likely jobs will have to change... It is in chelan county. And definitely going to check about the specifics of the water rights with the sale before even making a formal offer.

I have to assume you are also shutting off the valve from the propane tank once you extinguish the pilot light, or it goes out on it's own??

Anna

Does it plug in? It must if it's a convection. do you know about glow bars/plugs? That will be perfect if you don't have one.

Keep in mind that wherever your off-the-grid underground 40 acres is, you will need to be close enough to a good medical facility for those kids. If you have 2 with health problems, one with severe food allergies, you need to limit your searches. Living rural and healthy is not going to solve that kind of thing, just might make it easier to control... So- remote is out.

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They shall all sit under their own vines and their own fig trees, and they shall live in peace and unafraid. Mica 4:4

I do not agree.

I don't know about the other health problems, but I have 3 children with allergies to gluten and processed corn. In reality, it's probably the whole family that has those problems, but only in 3 do the symptoms manifest very severely.

Living simply has been a huge blessing to us. Preparing food from our farm in a simple manner where we are aware of all of the ingredients has eliminated much of the problem and has set them up for a lifetime of healthy eating habits that won't lead them to the health issues many food allergy people get later on in life.

Plus, getting out of the city and living simply has healthy benefits for adults as well in a reduction of stress. Take away smog and polluted water and you can find just an overall bloom of health in living remote.

Commercial ovens and stoves are not insulated like the ones designed for homes. If they are installed in your kitchen they can nullify your homeowners insurance and they do not meet code. Be very careful if you install one, especially if you have a mortgage, if your insurance is not in affect, they can call your mortgage.

We have a BIG commercial stove that has our insurance company's ok. We had heard the same things so we got the specs on a commercial install and more than met those. The ins co reviewed what we were doing and also wanted it professionally installed. That was fine with me since it weighed almost 600 pounds.

The wall behind is 5/8 drywall, then 1/2 backer board, and then 3/8 tile. The stove sits 6" away from the wall. Floor is also tile and the stove sits on its own legs so airspace all around. You can't have wood cabinets tight to the stove so the counter next to it is a stainless 8' restaurant deal.


Doing it right takes a fair amount of space and money. But it can be done.

Yes anything can be done, but it does take both time and money---when we looked at it we decided on a really good home model, I didn't want to give up as much room as required, my DH doesn't like to have other people working on the house. I thought it worth noting because I had no idea when I started looking at stoves.

I do tile work so no big deal on that and we would have to have any stove delivered anyway.

I really don't think they are worth the trouble unless you do a LOT of cooking and entertaining. We have never used them all at one time, except the ovens, but we have two stoves with a total of 10 burners, 3 ovens, a 2' wide griddle, and a 2' wide broiler. That's way overkill for a normal house or most normal people. But then again, we have had 34 people over for a sit-down dinner, so that pretty much tells our story.

Hi,
I think living off grid sounds romantic but unless you absolutely have to exist off grid because of power lines not coming out to you, etc. then you should look into slightly different grid configurations.

By the way, I can survive off grid if TSHTF but I choose not to. Right now I have an off grid/intertie system that feeds the grid with my excess power except in an emergency. In that case my system supplies my electricity. This way my batteries (8 Rolls 530S in series, 48Volts) never get overly taxed and last indefinitely.

A couple of years ago after my off grid system was in my rural coop gave me a grant (I'm an electronic engineer) for a 6.4 Kw intertie system which I personally installed. by doing it myself I saved about 22 grand making the system free.

So right now I have 10.6 Kw of PV, 48 modules and two systems. I make so much power that I sell power even on overcast days. My total outlay was about 15K dollars. I do not worry about payback. I want the security of being able to make my own power, run my well pump, my freezers, etc. regardless of what's happening in the world.
I make so much power that this winter I'll be able to supplement our home heat with electric.

Right now I get a credit every month form the power company because I sell them about 30 to 50 KWh a day above what I need to make the house run. This gives you the best of both worlds, you save your batteries, sell power and run your house for nothing. It's better than net zero, we're not breaking even, we are ahead of the system.

We also have extensive gardens and store our food for the winter along with fruit orchards and wild apple trees.

Next I'm designing micro-hydro and wind turbines because they work in concord with PV.

We have internet, Netflix, etc. from our local independent phone company. This can change if 4G gets out here but the key is flexibility. You always want options once your basic system is together because that basic system gives you power in several senses of the word. The key is to be able to dismiss outside systems that society relies on when you need to. Now you're not controlled by agribusiness, oil, water, etc. And that my friends is called freedom.

What we have, overall, is a system here that incorporates society, extracts the best from it, and then leaves us autonomous if we need to be like last year when the power went out for a week or so.

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about hiding from the system, I would work to take the best it has to offer and be able to survive when it isn't there. Now instead of the system owning you, you own the system.

The other concept that needs to change is 'money is power'. No, land is power ....if you know how to utilize it. If TSHTF billionaires living in penthouses will be broke.

Rob

I see at least five different components here:
1. Food allergies (corn)
2. Proximity to work at $12/hr
3. Desire to reduce expenses and not be paying others for the "privilege" of living
4. Desire to be "unfindable" - a restraining order indicates at least one particular individual
5. Desire to feel safe and secure from robberies.

A real quick commenting on each:
1. Food allergies (corn)
You can focus on avoidance, which works in some cases, but not if the immune system is going hyper and starting to become increasingly sensitive to a variety of foods. In that case, N.A.E.T. can help.

2. Proximity to work at $12/hr
The cost of transportation can add up quickly as well as put you at the mercy of things beyond your control, like gas prices. Think long and hard before doing more than 30 min in a commute. It steals your time, increases insurance costs, and increases the probability of being in an accident.

3. Desire to reduce expenses and not be paying others for the "privilege" of living
I'm in absolute agreement with this concept. We used to pay about $100/mo in FL for water and garbage collection. Now that the basics have been amortized, our cost is about $10 for garbage and an estimated $15 for power to pump and replace equipment as needed. You MUST do full research before going into a new area expecting to save money. We spent months.

4. Desire to be "unfindable" - a restraining order indicates at least one particular individual
Buying property is going to immediately make you findable. Frequenting old haunts will do so as well. Having a driver's license can do so as well. The physical location has very little to do with being unfindable. Having an alias, changing your name, having someone else's name on paperwork can help, but just about everyone is findable these days. An underground "unfindable" house is pure fantasy.

5. Desire to feel safe and secure from robberies.
If you want to feel secure, do NOT separate cars or other property from your immediate control. It is a LOT easier for a theif to steal a car that is over the river and through the woods than one in a garage attached to a home. Think of the concept of perimeter.

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George Washington did not run and hide.

Ernie- I agree with you, I'm just saying that if you have kids with serious food allergies you probably want to plan on emergency medical care being available nearby. That doesn't negate the possibility of living rural (and yes! healthier), but just an important thing to keep in mind.

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They shall all sit under their own vines and their own fig trees, and they shall live in peace and unafraid. Mica 4:4