Is This a Copperhead?

littlejoe · #61 07/08/13, 02:06 AM

Ag is the reason our wildlife numbers are high, from west to east, and north to south. I don't understand your post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

I regret having to kill wild animals often, but ultimately I have to share this landscape with them. I am part of the biosphere here. Some accommodation has to be made with the plants and animals in the space I inhabit.

Someone asked me the other day, "Ernie, you are so into conservation ... how can you stand to be a hunting guide for people who kill deer?"

My answer was pretty easy. "Those hunters pay thousands of dollars for a deer lease, which means the landowner will keep 3,000+ acres out of agricultural production and pristine. If a deer or two has to die in that 3,000 acres for all of the other species to survive there, then that's an acceptable tradeoff."

So while I regret having to kill the occasional wild critter in my space or bothering my livestock, it's an acceptable tradeoff. I would not call for ALL of those predator species to be eradicated, certainly not, but only the problem ones who think they can eat my chickens with impunity.

Ernie · #62 07/08/13, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlejoe

Ag is the reason our wildlife numbers are high, from west to east, and north to south. I don't understand your post?

You really think 300 acres of monoculture is an acceptable habitat for wildlife?

motdaugrnds · #63 07/08/13, 06:26 PM

The black snake David is holding and others discovered here have white (with black spots) on their undersides....so Black Rat it must be.

Fire-Man · #64 07/08/13, 07:05 PM

Is This a Copperhead? - Homesteading Questions

Patty12----fixing your link!

GBov · #65 07/13/13, 11:53 AM

Oh noooooooo!!! I just did the same thing with a brown water snake

And I have been looking them up on line and everything to be sure I could tell the difference between a cotton mouth and a watersnake but even with all that I got it wrong!

Short, thick body, very dark dull greyish black over a hatch mark pattern with a stripe down its face. It even had a triangular head and white inside the mouth when it struck the shovel as I pressed down on it.

I had to bring the head - neatly detached from body - right up to my face to see the eye had a round, rather than slit, pupil.

The pigs enjoyed their treat but I am so sad

MichaelZ · #66 07/13/13, 09:20 PM

If you don't like snakes, move up by us. We have two types of snakes: The red-bellied tiny snake I call a "fire snake", and the garter snake. My cat killed a fire snake this year. I have not seen a garter snake in about 5 years. Basically no snakes at all. I guess I don't mind them, but then again the nearest poisonous snake in the wild is probably 250 or more miles away in S. WI (timber rattler).

DryHeat · #67 07/14/13, 08:28 AM

Quote:

I just did the same thing with a brown water snake

Actually, from the description, Google up some images (there's a subcategory "Images" at the main Google search that makes it really easy) for "banded water snake." That's the one you're much more likely to run into and is *very* variable in its coloration. It's also more common around ponds, ditches, and marshy areas (and certainly anything like one's yard) than a brown water snake would be. I grew up in central Florida and saw a lot of all three species... banded, brown, and cottonmouths, with the banded much more common by a factor of more than ten times. Browns were, in my experience, always near substantial flowing water, mostly sunning on branches where you'd be fishing or boating. (They seemed to be more specialized as fish-eaters where the banded loves fish, frogs, tadpoles and maybe toads.) If cornered or being harassed on dry land or very shallow water, bandeds will puff up, flatten out, make their heads triangular, strike upwards with mouths wide open even to the point of coming forward mostly lifting off the ground. Get bitten and you'll bleed a few minutes like a stuck pig but with a little soapy washing be fine after that. Browns are a lot more "sneaky" about striking defensively, making a sideways slashing motion; I suspect that's their way of grabbing catfish under water.

Here's what I listened for if having a chat with a local resident or general outdoorsman about types of aquatic snakes in an area: if they'd say "There's a bunch of moccasins around here (or in that river, lake, etc)" but when asked how many banded water snakes, brown water snakes, etc there were also, if they said "What? They're ALL poisonous moccasins around here!" ... I'd conclude they were quite ignorant and had been happily killing (or fearing) harmless snakes most of their lives mixed in with likely a smaller number of venomous species. If they'd say, and it was exceptional but not impossible to hear this, "There're a bunch of water snakes around and some cottonmouths over in the swamps along that river," I'd ask more questions about their local knowledge of snakes and pay close attention to the answers.

GBov · #68 07/14/13, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DryHeat

Actually, from the description, Google up some images (there's a subcategory "Images" at the main Google search that makes it really easy) for "banded water snake." That's the one you're much more likely to run into and is *very* variable in its coloration. It's also more common around ponds, ditches, and marshy areas (and certainly anything like one's yard) than a brown water snake would be. I grew up in central Florida and saw a lot of all three species... banded, brown, and cottonmouths, with the banded much more common by a factor of more than ten times. Browns were, in my experience, always near substantial flowing water, mostly sunning on branches where you'd be fishing or boating. (They seemed to be more specialized as fish-eaters where the banded loves fish, frogs, tadpoles and maybe toads.) If cornered or being harassed on dry land or very shallow water, bandeds will puff up, flatten out, make their heads triangular, strike upwards with mouths wide open even to the point of coming forward mostly lifting off the ground. Get bitten and you'll bleed a few minutes like a stuck pig but with a little soapy washing be fine after that. Browns are a lot more "sneaky" about striking defensively, making a sideways slashing motion; I suspect that's their way of grabbing catfish under water.

Here's what I listened for if having a chat with a local resident or general outdoorsman about types of aquatic snakes in an area: if they'd say "There's a bunch of moccasins around here (or in that river, lake, etc)" but when asked how many banded water snakes, brown water snakes, etc there were also, if they said "What? They're ALL poisonous moccasins around here!" ... I'd conclude they were quite ignorant and had been happily killing (or fearing) harmless snakes most of their lives mixed in with likely a smaller number of venomous species. If they'd say, and it was exceptional but not impossible to hear this, "There're a bunch of water snakes around and some cottonmouths over in the swamps along that river," I'd ask more questions about their local knowledge of snakes and pay close attention to the answers.

We are staying with my mum right now and her place backs up to a flooded, river flood plain. The water is right up to the bottom of the bluff she lives on. But you could well be right as to its being a banded, rather than a brown, water snake. Either way its dead due to its uncanny resemblance to a cotton mouth.

The reason I have been looking them up is because we have LOTS of snakes and I like that but don't want the kids in too much danger from them so we have been doing good snake, venomous snake pictures. I thought we had the water snake thing down too but nope, no easy way to tell.

I feel bad about it but, as it was right where the kids play, there wasn't really much else I could do.

bettybetty · #69 07/14/13, 10:23 AM

About the copperheads just staying where they are and not moving...

I was researching venomous snake bites, I read something (no I don't remember where) That said that the most common snake bite in our area was from the copperhead, and attributed it to the snakes lack of a warning mechanism.

While the cottonmouth opens its mouth and hisses at you, and a rattlesnake -well- rattles, a copperhead doesn't have any defense so he just acts like he is invisible.
Which is ok if he is in the middle of the road or path sunning, but if you REALLY do not see him, and inadvertently touch him... its not gonna be pretty.

And as a weigh in on the killing of look-a-likes.

If you use a fake gun to rob a bank- you still go to prison
If you look like a seal on your surfboard, a hungry shark will try to eat you
and if you come into an area where my kids play looking like a venomous snake, your probably going to meet your maker.

GBov · #70 07/14/13, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettybetty

About the copperheads just staying where they are and not moving...

I was researching venomous snake bites, I read something (no I don't remember where) That said that the most common snake bite in our area was from the copperhead, and attributed it to the snakes lack of a warning mechanism.

While the cottonmouth opens its mouth and hisses at you, and a rattlesnake -well- rattles, a copperhead doesn't have any defense so he just acts like he is invisible.
Which is ok if he is in the middle of the road or path sunning, but if you REALLY do not see him, and inadvertently touch him... its not gonna be pretty.

And as a weigh in on the killing of look-a-likes.

If you use a fake gun to rob a bank- you still go to prison
If you look like a seal on your surfboard, a hungry shark will try to eat you
and if you come into an area where my kids play looking like a venomous snake, your probably going to meet your maker.

DryHeat · #71 07/14/13, 12:57 PM

Quote:

I thought we had the water snake thing down too but nope, no easy way to tell.

I won't beat you up on the basic ID difficulty. I agree, it is tough to be sure from a distance, or if you only see, say, a length of the body exposed on a log sunning with the head hidden. As a teenager in Florida, some buddies and I, amateur natural history hobbyists, would catch anything within grasp to look it over and maybe keep in captivity for a while, other than the venomous snakes. There *were* times when one of us would quietly maneuver a little boat up to some honkin' big thick-bodied snake on a log like that, ready to make a bare-handed grab (we also had snake hooks and/or tongs, and a nice deep minnow net for anything venomous so we'd not be doing the risky pin & pick up trip), but in a few cases pause with one of us saying, "Are you *really* sure that isn't a cottonmouth?" A mid-body length of a big (4-5' long) brown or dark-color banded water snake is often patternless, as is a cottonmouth that size. The best way to tell, we found, is that IF you're fairly close, like a couple feet away, you can see the scales pretty well, and the water snake has *very* strongly "keeled" scales... a sharpish ridge lengthways, raised, on each individual scale. (I suppose it gives them better friction against water when swimming?) Cottonmouths also have keeled scales, but very weakly so, they almost look smooth, even up close. There were a few times we "passed" on making a grab until the critter spooked and splashed away; there was never a time when we thought a cottonmouth wasn't one and were ready to grab barehanded, none of us ever got envenomated, but, yes, there were some better-safe-than-sorry moments on initial IDs.