Why small farms can not feed the world anymore...

CesumPec · #81 06/26/13, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darntootin

People dont realize how much food 2 acres would produce. That is a massive amout of food. I 'mostly' feed myself on about 1/2 acre and we have a very short growing season. I think if you had two good acres for growing and a few more to keep a small flock of sheep or goats you could eat pretty good.

As well as a pig or two. They can take very little space and eat what a 2 acre gardener would otherwise compost.

Paquebot · #82 06/26/13, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darntootin

People dont realize how much food 2 acres would produce. That is a massive amout of food. I 'mostly' feed myself on about 1/2 acre and we have a very short growing season. I think if you had two good acres for growing and a few more to keep a small flock of sheep or goats you could eat pretty good.

BUT, if you took a 200-acre field and divided it into 400 half-acre plots, how long would it continue to feed very many people? There's a natural law of diminishing returns when it comes to removing things from Nature. The only way that it can be maintained is if whatever is removed is replaced and that does not happen in our society.

Martin

farmerDale · #83 06/26/13, 12:45 PM

This is a good discussion, folks. I wonder though at the people who did not read the article. The point of this thread was kinda to share information, numbers, and the why it would be tough to make it work.

I have been enjoying the discussion.

Ernie · #84 06/26/13, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

BUT, if you took a 200-acre field and divided it into 400 half-acre plots, how long would it continue to feed very many people? There's a natural law of diminishing returns when it comes to removing things from Nature. The only way that it can be maintained is if whatever is removed is replaced and that does not happen in our society.

Martin

Agreed. You would have to fundamentally reconstruct society in order to feed the world again off of small farms.

ET1 SS · #85 06/26/13, 02:34 PM

I sell produce in a Farmer's Market. Among the other vendors I see. Some have 2 acres of land, some have 10 acres. Some started by share-cropping, others were able to buy their land upfront.

Can organic farming feed the entire world? I do not know, I do not care. It is not my ambition to feed the world.

I feed my family, I sell produce to other families. It is possible to feed and support your family from small-scale organic farming.

Where I live new farms start-up every year.

Every year sees new Farmer's Markets opening.

This is a growing sub-culture.

Ernie · #86 06/26/13, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

I sell produce in a Farmer's Market. Among the other vendors I see. Some have 2 acres of land, some have 10 acres. Some started by share-cropping, others were able to buy their land upfront.

Can organic farming feed the entire world? I do not know, I do not care. It is not my ambition to feed the world.

I feed my family, I sell produce to other families. It is possible to feed and support your family from small-scale organic farming.

Where I live new farms start-up every year.

Every year sees new Farmer's Markets opening.

This is a growing sub-culture.

It is, and it scares some people. Those are generally the ones who come forward and explain how small farms can't feed the world.

Goethe said, "If every man would sweep his own doorstep then the city would soon be clean."

Small farmers are doing that. I don't particularly care if we feed the world. We need to feed our small communities at a micro level and then leave it at that. Your average large scale farmer feeds about 155 people worldwide. I don't have any statistics on how many people small farmers like you feed, ETS, but I'd hazard a guess that it's somewhere along the lines of about 12.

I don't see any problem with that at all. Feed 155 people poorly or 12 people well. Not a hard choice, in my book.

ChristieAcres · #87 06/26/13, 03:03 PM

If a lot more folks took responsibility for growing at least SOME of their own fruits/veggies and did anything to help contribute to their other food requirements? This would go a very long way to lessoning the need for so much food to be provided by large farms and even small farms.

We don't just grow our own fruits/veggies, but also DH hunts, we fish, crab, dig clams, harvest oysters, and even forage for wild mushrooms. Where you live dictates what you can do, but there are always opportunities...

Ernie · #88 06/26/13, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

If a lot more folks took responsibility for growing at least SOME of their own fruits/veggies and did anything to help contribute to their other food requirements? This would go a very long way to lessoning the need for so much food to be provided by large farms and even small farms.

We don't just grow our own fruits/veggies, but also DH hunts, we fish, crab, dig clams, harvest oysters, and even forage for wild mushrooms. Where you live dictates what you can do, but there are always opportunities...

At the risk of becoming just your Greek Chorus, I totally agree.

For all the food our garden gives us throughout the year, it's primarily just side dishes for the meat and eggs we've produced.

I will usually make a lunch out of tomato and cucumber, or some sliced zucchini ...but meat and dairy are our primary diet.

Heck, my neighbor last year kept me in zucchini. I didn't plant any at all and he planted too much, so he brought so much over in exchange for eggs that I thought I was going to zucchinicide. (Self-induced death by zucchini)

And he's just an old fellow with too much time on his hands. He grows like 3 plants just for the fun of it.

Lazy J · #89 06/26/13, 03:35 PM

A recent Meta Analysis of 27 studies conducted in 28 countries to determine consumer behavior and desires around food buying found the following:

94% of consumers in 28 countries purchase food based on Taste, Cost, and Nutrition.
4% of consumers are Lifestyle Buyers purchasing based on Luxury/Gourmet, Oranic/Local, or from Gardens.
1% purchased food based on Fringe desires such as Food Bans, Food Restriction, or Special Food Propositions.

I will try to find a link for the study results.

Kstornado11 · #90 06/26/13, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Yes, land is indeed expensive and traditional farming is very challenging to turn a profit...

There is a difference between farming and producing most of what one eats, but there are varying degrees of farming that can make a HUGE difference to a Community. I'll give you an example:

We only have 6.68 Acres, yet I could grow enough Rhubarb to provide to many families. If I only grew that one crop and still concentrated on growing most of our fruits/veggies, that would be a small level of farming. I have friends who have a garden that is over an acre, in-ground, intensively planted. They produce far more than they can eat and sell the rest. They sell Marionberries, Raspberries, Strawberries, Rhubarb, Green Beans, Peas, and a few other varieties. In addition, they sell firewood, homemade pies, jams, and jellies.

Now, imagine folks each producing a few varieties in excess of what they need, not the same as their neighbors are producing. There are many needs filled in a community this way. Instead of a few "farms," there are many micro-farms. There is profit in this type of farming. How? Niche farming, only growing what is needed in a community. There is a market for mushrooms, so a local guy is growing them. We pick mushrooms every year (wild ones). Last year, we picked 46#s and could have picked much more. We could have sold some and it would have been pure profit, minus the fun we had picking them. To make the most profit on filling niche's, grow something that is a perennial (like Rhubarb if that is in high demand in your area). It surprises me that it is in our area! My friends have sold a lot of strawberries. They don't allow people to pick, but sell them by the flat. The demand for Rhubarb is so high, they can't fill it!

Great post! I hate to see the word "can't". If more & more people got off their duff & grew food, we COULD feed ourselves. It IS becoming a lot more popular, as more & more people learn the dangers of what all the chemicals are doing to the Earth. I just don't understand why so many are content to stick their head in the sand & ignore what is happening to our world, as long as they are comfortable. I guess I was born a couple hundred years too late.

ET1 SS · #91 06/26/13, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

... I will usually make a lunch out of tomato and cucumber, or some sliced zucchini ...but meat and dairy are our primary diet.

One of our challenges has been to step outside of the zucc, cuke and tomato community of gardening.

It seems that all my life I have known folks who produce goobs of tomatoes and can a 'big' bunch. But in reality, it may still only be 0.1% of their annual diet.

I think that a lot of home gardens feel very good about their gardening, but really they are not producing much of their diet.

Supplying a market is a lot more than that.

As to the 'meat and dairy', that is the primary diet of our culture. A culture of obesity, high B/P and heart disease.

I am no vegetarian, though there is good reasoning to all of us cutting meat and dairy down to once/week.

ET1 SS · #92 06/26/13, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy J

A recent Meta Analysis of 27 studies conducted in 28 countries to determine consumer behavior and desires around food buying found the following:

94% of consumers in 28 countries purchase food based on Taste, Cost, and Nutrition.
4% of consumers are Lifestyle Buyers purchasing based on Luxury/Gourmet, Oranic/Local, or from Gardens.
1% purchased food based on Fringe desires such as Food Bans, Food Restriction, or Special Food Propositions.

I will try to find a link for the study results.

"... Taste, Cost, and Nutrition"; "... Luxury/Gourmet, Oranic/Local, or from Gardens"; "... Food Bans, Food Restriction, or Special Food Propositions"

I see a lot of room there for perception.

How you perceive Cost/Nutrition is entirely different from how someone else does. etc, ...

Lazy J · #93 06/26/13, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

"... Taste, Cost, and Nutrition"; "... Luxury/Gourmet, Oranic/Local, or from Gardens"; "... Food Bans, Food Restriction, or Special Food Propositions"

I see a lot of room there for perception.

How you perceive Cost/Nutrition is entirely different from how someone else does. etc, ...

That is a good point.

The researchers began their evaluation with 70 studies and only 27 met the criteria of using unaided questions or used consumer spending data.

Ernie · #94 06/26/13, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

As to the 'meat and dairy', that is the primary diet of our culture. A culture of obesity, high B/P and heart disease.

I am no vegetarian, though there is good reasoning to all of us cutting meat and dairy down to once/week.

I disagree. GRAINS are the primary diet of our culture, and that's what causes the problems you mention.

It's difficult to gain any weight at all on a high protein and fat diet. Throw some carbohydrates in there though and you start ballooning up.

The world is full of herdsmen who consist primarily on meat and dairy and they don't suffer from the problems we do. But in most cultures where they consume the wheat grains in a high-bread diet, you see those issues.

Meat and dairy are also a lot less labor intensive than grain crops ... another reason why we prefer that in our diet.

ETA:

Also, our gardening mantra is "Grow what you eat, and eat what you grow."

ET1 SS · #95 06/26/13, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

I disagree. GRAINS are the primary diet of our culture, and that's what causes the problems you mention.

It's difficult to gain any weight at all on a high protein and fat diet. Throw some carbohydrates in there though and you start ballooning up.

The world is full of herdsmen who consist primarily on meat and dairy and they don't suffer from the problems we do. But in most cultures where they consume the wheat grains in a high-bread diet, you see those issues.

Meat and dairy are also a lot less labor intensive than grain crops ... another reason why we prefer that in our diet.

ETA:

Also, our gardening mantra is "Grow what you eat, and eat what you grow."

Wheat is a big problem too.

I have not heard much of health problems from non-wheat grains.

ChristieAcres · #96 06/26/13, 05:05 PM

Our diet is almost grain-free and that sure simplifies what we are growing & providing for ourselves!

Since we eat Paleo/Primal here, I can attest we are healthier, stronger, and don't have weight problems. We eat plenty of fats, a variety of meat proteins, fruits, veggies, and nuts. I also drink Kefir Smoothies daily.

Ernie · #97 06/26/13, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Our diet is almost grain-free and that sure simplifies what we are growing & providing for ourselves!

Since we eat Paleo/Primal here, I can attest we are healthier, stronger, and don't have weight problems. We eat plenty of fats, a variety of meat proteins, fruits, veggies, and nuts. I also drink Kefir Smoothies daily.

That's what we're trying to do here! Everyone else is on the paleo thing pretty well and firmly but me ... well ... I cheat sometimes.

rharper · #98 06/26/13, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

One of our challenges has been to step outside of the zucc, cuke and tomato community of gardening.

It seems that all my life I have known folks who produce goobs of tomatoes and can a 'big' bunch. But in reality, it may still only be 0.1% of their annual diet.

I think that a lot of home gardens feel very good about their gardening, but really they are not producing much of their diet.

Fair point--I've seen this one as well, with my parents and their friends. They dump extra zucchini and tomatoes on each other every summer, and hand out jars of pickles every winter. They do eat them, but it's not pleasant, because they end up hating zucchini, particularly, by the end of the season, and ultimately end up buying most of their food anyway.

The funny thing is that it's not hard to move beyond that a bit without much (if any) extra effort or time in the dirt--beans and peas are an easy addition, as are carrots and taters and sweet corn. Plus, keeper squash and pumpkins are as easy as zucchini. A fruit tree or vine is pretty easy as well, if you're sitting in one place long enough. All these are plant-n-pick, easy-to-grow (and store, with canners/freezers/cellars), and about interchangeable in terms of time and effort and expense. Not branching out past the garden trinity you mention here seems more a matter of habit than anything else, and a little horizon-expansion could easily raise the percentage of home-raised food in the average diet.

Grains, for the backyard garden, are generally not worth it, because the harvest isn't "pick-oriented" and there are the extra steps of threshing/winnowing and grinding. Once you factor all that in, there's little to no saving in dollar terms, and it requires much more effort than buying grains from more mechanized, large-scale operations.

Where you're allowed, though, chickens, rabbits, and (so I've been told) pigs are pretty low-maintenance and space-saving meat sources. Goats can subsist on a varied and small diet as well, if the books are to be trusted, and they can produce milk (or so I've heard).

So basically, it's not that hard for folks to diversify and bring more of their own food to the table without much extra effort--so long as they adjust their diets and expectations to match.

That's the key, I think. Without cows and grains, the home-grown cheeseburger is out. A diverse garden with a modest flock o' chickens, however, can create a pot or two of chicken stew, and all the egg breakfasts you can eat. Add a pig, and now there's bacon alongside those eggs, and all you're buying is the toast. Add a goat, and you've got milk, yogurt, and (if you're industrious) cheese--though this is probably getting outside that "same-effort" equation I started on.

The point is that it's a matter of habit, not effort. The time and energy and space it takes to grow enough tomatoes and zucchini to choke a whale could be used to better purpose, if folks found themselves so inclined.

plowhand · #99 06/26/13, 11:25 PM

Taste....cost....nutrition...

Well, we all better start raising our own.....cause those three requirements rule out nearly everything at the grocery store....Anmore any produce that tastes good and comes from a local grocery is more a suprise than anything else.
Maybe it's like the good quality lumber...the loggers all tell me it goes over seas

Paquebot · #**100** 06/27/13, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowhand

Taste....cost....nutrition...

Well, we all better start raising our own.....cause those three requirements rule out nearly everything at the grocery store....Anmore any produce that tastes good and comes from a local grocery is more a suprise than anything else.
Maybe it's like the good quality lumber...the loggers all tell me it goes over seas

We've been eating cantaloupes, grapes, honeydew, tomatoes, watermelons, and various other fruit all winter long. Every one of them tasted a million times better than anything which could ever come from my garden during the same period and all came from HyVee or Aldi. Last year I did grow all of those but it was August before anything but a cherry tomato was available. Yes, nice to raise one's own but there's 9 to 10 months between harvests for a lot of that stuff. In the meantime, even the worse example from a supermarket is better than an empty tote basket.

Martin