This is an anti-GMO post

Originally Posted by farmerDale

Ok, Which crop would you like to hear about? Why not I start with canola?


The year prior to canola, I generally have grown a cereal crop in my rotation. Barley, oats, wheat, canaryseed, or whatever. Rotation is a huge part of farming.

After the wheat is harvested, it snows, lol. Then spring comes, and Farmer Dale walks his land to see what weeds are there. You see, we do not apply blanket herbicides, they are not cheap, and so if they are not needed, we don't spray 'em.

Different weed issues call for different herbicides, and different agronomic practices. Different weeds, need different rates. But most of the time, I MAY spray a half litre of glyphosate prior to seeding my canola. In that half litre, is about a quarter of a pound of active ingredient, glyphosate. I use glyphosate NOT made by monsanto, just because it is cheaper, and works just as well.

IF there are specific weed issues, I MAY ad another herbicide to the glyphosate to sharpen the control, and avoid resistance issues that scare people so bad. I have no resistant weeds on my farm, and most farmers do not, because we rotate our crops and our chemistry. The herbicide I may add to the glyphosate is applied at a rate of about 4 grams an acre, or 1/100th of a pound of product per acre. This sharpens control on certain weeds. See, when you tank mix, you end up getting something called synergistic efficacy. This means that small amounts of herbicides form different groups often enhance the uptake by the target weeds, and are therefore more effective than one or the other used alone.

Then within a week, I seed my canola. The canola emerges in 5 to 7 days, and again I watch my fields for specific weed issues. If warranted, I will spray half a pound of glufosinate ammonium on my canola at the three leaf stage, about 80 days prior to harvest. So with the field free of weeds, my canola prospers.

And then I combine it.

So I have sprayed MAYBE one pound of product on 2 000 000 pounds of land. Most of the herbicide is eaten, yes eaten and digested withing the plants. The miniscule amount that gets on the soil, is eaten, yes eaten by soil micropbes, worms, and is broken down further, depending on the herbicide involved. Some break down ultra fast, some are intentionally residual to suppress weeds for perhaps a couple of weeks.

So my harvested canola seed, Usually in the amount of around 2000 pounds an acre, has had half a pound applied to it 90 days before harvest, when it was very young, small, and actively growing. Of that half pound, most of it is broken down into simple compounds by the plants themselves, as they are bred to do so.

The canola is then shipped to Japan, Europe, Mexico, the US, and a myriad of other nations. Japan being our largest customer.

The same general idea applies to all my crops. Spray once at the early stages of growth to remove weed competition.

Did you know, that only a few wild oats plants per square foot reduces yield by 15 to 35%? Something that is NEVER talked about on here, is the fact that weeds are aggressive yield thieves. Organic producers have no way to remove these weeds after emergence, and so their yields suffer. The other reason their yields suffer, is because it is VERY difficult to feed the crop properly and accurately, but we are talking weeds here.

When these weeds seed out, some like wild mustard have a 60 year dormancy, and are very competetive. If you miss a single year, you can then see what you are up against.

It all comes down to scouting the land, and applying if necessary, the proper herbicide, in the PROPER amount.

If herbicides were so harmful, my soil would be dead. But it is not, it is improving every year, because of proper fertility, no-till, etc. The soil organic matter is regaining ground lost from when it was farmed organially, ironically enough. The soil life is phenomenal, the wildlife is VERY healthy, frogs and salamanders, those beacons of environmental degredation, can be found anywhere in my fields, before or after herbicide applications, in vast numbers.

The water does not run off the land as much anymore due to the no till revolution. And the water that does run off is now clear, where it was once very brown and muddy. When water is not carrying soil, it can not carry herbicides, because the herbicides that are left, are tied up in the clay and organic matter particles of the soil. If that is kept on the land by not tilling and enhancing erosion, it is never a bad thing.

SO basically, that is how we grow canola in western Canada...

Originally Posted by farmerDale

Angie, the so called "pro group", showed up because the assertions became utterly ridiculous, and insulting. I am a large farmer by this forums contention, but in real life, at 2000 acres, I am about the smallest farmer in my municipality, it is all perspective.

A lesson on "harrassment" When someone provokes someone to respond, due to blatant misunderstanding, lack of knowledge, or spreading false science, would you prefer to not have a balance thrown in? Refuting mis-truths is NOT harrassing. Lying about an entire occupation, and what they do, kinda is...

In MAY threads, I have explained the rates of herbicides used, why gm has saved my farms soil, how herbicides work, and where they go once applied, yet no gm hater is ever satisfied, much less even responds to my posts. Like an ostrich, they fail to be proactive and ask for more information.

And for this, I AM thankful. At least you asked, instead of making ridiculous assumptions based on an organic food producers web site, or the likes. When it is monsanto, it is about the money. When it is some organic producers organization, it never is. Organic farmers are too moral to be questioned...

Thank you for asking. I hope if my answer has not been satisfactory, that if you have further questions, I would do my best to answer them as well.

I join these discussions, because they are simply out of touch with what goes on in the real farming world. Pre-suppositions based on lies, NEED to be refuted. I would have jumped in sooner, but up to that point, it wasn't too bad. And then, things were said. Things that need to be made clear, and need to have factual rebuttal, not some acreage owners philosophical rant.

Dale.

Originally Posted by AngieM2

This confuses me.
The glyphosate is applied before seeding. - understand that is to cut down on weeds or anything susceptible to it.

You can see anything after glyphosate app - Okay, I can plant anything I want, won't this cause anything susceptible to not grow?

Not just rr crops - so are you saying that rr crops cannot be planted? or that rr crops and anything both can be planted?

In the case of rr crops being planted, is this when the gmo factor kicks in and lets them grow instead of not growing due to the gylphosate being applied earlier?

Originally Posted by partndn

hmm. That post appears to be exactly a philosophical "rant," (as you mentioned earlier is what provokes your replies to comments in threads like this) just in your own words.

It's incredibly similar to the situation of one here you seem to strongly oppose. As practical as you may perceive it, your insistence on offering what you believe to be scientific fact, etc. is your own philosophical rant. You put it very nicely there and seem to sincerely believe your efforts and methods are for your family's benefit, and so on.

I got no problem with that. I have issue that so many of you guys seem to present your statements in a way that sounds like your heart's desire is more worthy than others'.

Originally Posted by partndn

hmm. That post appears to be exactly a philosophical "rant," (as you mentioned earlier is what provokes your replies to comments in threads like this) just in your own words.

It's incredibly similar to the situation of one here you seem to strongly oppose. As practical as you may perceive it, your insistence on offering what you believe to be scientific fact, etc. is your own philosophical rant. You put it very nicely there and seem to sincerely believe your efforts and methods are for your family's benefit, and so on.

I got no problem with that. I have issue that so many of you guys seem to present your statements in a way that sounds like your heart's desire is more worthy than others'.

Originally Posted by farmerDale

Slaves to the bank? lol Subsidies? I am in Canada, we have very little subsidization.

I do what I do, because I want my soil better for my sons than when I started farming. I want healthy soil, I want to make a living off the land. I am living most peoples dreams. In the middle of no where. Where I could shoot a moose form my porch most any day of the week. Where I do not have to answer to anyone. I do what I do because I love it. I am not a slave to a bank. I am not doing this for anyone but my family. And my sons future...

Originally Posted by AngieM2

This confuses me.
The glyphosate is applied before seeding. - understand that is to cut down on weeds or anything susceptible to it.

You can see anything after glyphosate app - Okay, I can plant anything I want, won't this cause anything susceptible to not grow?

Not just rr crops - so are you saying that rr crops cannot be planted? or that rr crops and anything both can be planted?

In the case of rr crops being planted, is this when the gmo factor kicks in and lets them grow instead of not growing due to the gylphosate being applied earlier?

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Farmers do not spray roundup ON anyones food.... they spray it on weeds (undesirable plants) prior to planting their crops (the plants that will produce your food at a later point)

I think it would really help these discussions if people would educate themselves a bit prior to engaging in the conversation.

Originally Posted by Ernie

They can't stop doing what they do because then they'll lose their government subsidies and the bank will call in their loans.

Originally Posted by AngieM2

YH- honestly - salt and vinegar comparing to herbicides and GMO? That hurts the argument for the farmers.

salt and vinegar are foods, the others have not been so.

Originally Posted by Annie

See, this is why it gets confusing....my first thought after reading this post is why use RR seeds if you spray roundup prior to planting....isn't the purpose of having these seeds so you can spray the actual crop? No? Then we're told that sometimes a second application IS applied after the seeds have germinated. So calling us uneducated when we are just trying to sort out conflicting information we are being given???? And Farmerdale got a question, does not adding a second herbicide that is not roundup, adversely affect the crops that are only RR ready? I'm trying to figure the chemical aspect of all of this.

Originally Posted by AngieM2

YH- honestly - salt and vinegar comparing to herbicides and GMO? That hurts the argument for the farmers.

salt and vinegar are foods, the others have not been so.

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

I think you overlooked my point here. Salt and vinegar are both foods, and deadly poisons, depending upon quantities consumed. GMO produced crops are also foods, and at this time there is very little reason to assume they are not just as healthy as any other foods, and definitely not as hazardous to people as many other things they consume daily and think nothing of it. Remember, the ever popular food known today as a tomato was once thought to be quite deadly.

Originally Posted by AngieM2

rambler - I did not say salt or vinegar was good for the soil.
I said it was a food for people, and the other mentioned items were not.

Please do not try to put sayings into my posts that are not there.

Thank you

Originally Posted by AngieM2

difference is salt and vinegar have a very long track record.

I highlighted "at this time" due to the fact that many of our modern miracles have been proved at a later time to cause many cancers and such, and then recalled after many, many people have been terribly hurt.

Originally Posted by farmerDale

THAT was a rant? Someone accused me of something, and if I am not allowed to answer to ridiculous assertions, using my head and my heart, kick me outa here. How are herbicide rates a philisophical rant? I am sorry if I come across as having no clue, but I do find it interesting that when I explain a situation, few care to ask more, they simply use this new, "philisophical rant" card.

My goals and dreams are no more important, better, more noble, or more green than anyone elses. Never did I state what I say is the only way, or what I say is all that matters. I am simply trying to share information, and if that information includes a little bit of my heart at times, so be it.

I just wish people would think on some of the mentioned herbicide rates, what scientifically happens to half a pound of herbicide a year, and come to the realization, we farmers are not "bathing" food in poison.