Genetically Modified Foods, nothing to fear

You need to educate yourself about what GMO production is all about. Its about genetically modifiying plants so that round up can be sprayed in large quantities on the food without the plants dying. The weeds die, plants live.

Plants that have been modified in this way are called "round up ready". Most of the corn in commercial production is round up ready. Another GMO product is called BT corn...it is corn that is genetically altered to produce BT in its fibers.

GMO is all about chemical treatment of food.

Pesticides are used on ALL crops, INCLUDING ORGANIC

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Isn't that what you are doing?

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

In this area to compare prices of conventional to Certified Organic, prices run from identical, to within 10% higher.

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

I generally try to stay out of GM discussions however I don't have anymore fear of GM foods than I have of hybrid strains.

Luther Burbank selectively bred hybrid strains for strength and viability however he lacked the electron microscope/ dna level modification processes current technology can provide.

With care and integrity GM procedures can achieve in years what hybridists of past eras required decades to achieve.

GM procedures can be beneficial provided the greediness of big commercial GM hybrid producers is regulated so that their terminator single generation strains do not affect heirloom varieties.

Genetically modified strains could offer relief of drought blighted crops and such.

Even we humans are subjected to genetic modification if we consider that often embryonic treatment of genetic issues are performed and people genetically susceptible to cancers and such are often treated on DNA levels.

Genetically modified isn't so much a new concept as an old standard that is now capable of being addressed at a higher magnification and exponentially faster pace due to technology.

All that is really required is to restrain the faster pace to the realm of hybridization and away from the heirloom realm as has been the norm for the last century.

__________________
"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"

There is a hope held high, as a carrot on a stick that GMO will one day increase crop yields to higher levels than conventional.

Last fall I attended a conference where Rodale presented a study showing ALL methods of crop production are slowly increasing yield levels.

GMO is not increasing yields at any higher rates than conventional. Nor is Organic increasing yields at any higher rate than conventional.



'Made possible'? ? ?

GMO makes it possible to copy Organic?

I was not aware of that.

Are you saying that with GMO crops, you can duplicate organic methods?

Pretty cool

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

While I am not a radically pro or anti GMO person, I find that post pretty compelling in the argument, in a negative way. I eat pretty well, these days, with a smaller portion of my wages going for food than I did in the pre-gmo days. In short, my life is easier in terms of keeping the cupboard full.

At one time, life was a lot easier for tropical dwellers than it is today, in terms of avoiding malaria, and tens of millions of (mostly children) have died since the big phoney DDT scare, which turned out to be just that.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymil...dly-fantasies/

If one will read that article, one can discover that the findings of Rachel Carson, who ignited the panic, were pretty much fabricated. It's not unusual for a book or article to change our world without just cause, and hers was no exception. Even many environmentalists today are willing to state that we are wasting a million plus lives per year because of our DDT fears.

So, I guess, the point is, are we also going to raise food prices and availability over another irrational fear? Could happen. We are healthier, live longer, etc. than we ever have before, while most of us are munching away on designer protein, and I have no objections if anybody wants to avoid it. Just don't screw up the price of food for the rest of us......and by the way......swat that skeeter for me, will you?........Thanks........Joe

Duplicating organic methods would be tilling the heck out of the soil, mining the soil, and relying on the organic material in the soil to supply the nutrients. Why anyone would want to duplicate "organic" methods is beyond me, but it is a free country, we can each do as we wish.

The organic grain farmers around me are going back to conventional farming in droves. Weed control, fertility of their soil, and sustainability is just impossible when farming grain organically on any kind of a more than 3 acre scale.

The romantic notion of legumes to replenish the soil, green manure, and mass tillage to release nutrients is just that: a romantic notion. That does not work. I am talking small grains here, not 4 acres of carrots or watermelons, which is a different thing altogether.

Darntootin, RR crops are just one element of thousands of GMO products so you are simply confusing your terms. Is RR Corn a GMO? Yes, Are GMOs all RR crops...no. Its also extremely misleading and false to make a claim that somehow GMO crops use more chemicals because that is demonstratively not correct in most cases.

We now have GMO salmon entering the market, they are experimenting with GMO dairy cattle, and the long term effect of GMO crops in increasingly monoculture farming practices are what disturbs me. I am also in favor of labeling and just dont buy the arguments against it. The pro GMO side in this country is not doing themselves any favors by resisting labeling IMO and by not taking the lead on it they will end up with something far more onerous than they other wise would have ended up with.

__________________
www.salmonslayer-simplelife.blogspot.com

I grew an organic garden and after the first year in which I broke up the virgin soil in order to actually plant something, I never tilled the soil again. My garden grew enough to feed four people year round, plus can and dehydrate for the rest of the non growing season. I grew corn, but did not grow wheat. I grew oats (easy as pie to grow oats, heck they would come up in the horse manure - lol..). Point is, most organic gardeners or growers do not till up the soil any more than absolutely necessary. For one it is not necessary generally and two, it takes more effort/work when that is not generally required.

Planting green cover crops does improve the soil, adding any type of organic matter improves the soil. Even the government agency USDA understands that:

NUTRIENT LOSS OR IMBALANCE - Decomposition of increased biomass provides a slow release of nutrients to the root zone. Legume cover crops fix atmospheric nitrogen and provide nitrogen for the main crop. Legumes utilize a higher amount of phosphorus than grass or small grains. This is useful in animal waste utilization and management. Small grains are useful as catch crops to utilize excess nitrogen, which reduces the potential for nitrogen leaching

ORGANIC MATTER - Decomposition of increased biomass results in more organic matter. Research shows cover crops killed 2-3 weeks prior
to planting main crop, results in adequate biomass and reduces the risk of
crop losses from soil moisture depletion and tie up of nutrients.

Full article here for those interested: http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/management/files/sq_atn_1.pdf

To each his/her own, but I always have added organic matter via cover crops to my soil, I get improved soil quality and improved nutrients, plus the worms love it and they add a great deal of value to the garden.

My grandpa planted 80 acres every year, some years it was in oats, other years in corn, and he even planted rye some years and tried barley and other crops. He had us kids fill wagons full of manure out of the barn to spread on the fields and he planted cover crops. That field was the richest field, everyone in our town knew of the "baldwin bottoms" and he had corn so tall we kids could never see over it. That was the only fertilizer he used other than some lime every few years. He must have known what he was doing, he kept all the stock and kids fed all those years plus had a crop to sell some years when the older kids moved off the farm.

I think it is important to improve soil through organic amendments in order to improve the soil's ability to capture and retain moisture, reduce run off, and the need for any additional chemical fertilizers.

__________________
Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

I do not know where you get this stuff from.

I produce organic food. I market organic food. I am a member of a regional Organic Certifying agency. I rub elbows with a lot of other organic food producers.

I 'no-till'.

I do not know of any organic food producer who does what you think you are describing.

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

I grow an organic no till garden. A garden is quite another thing from tryiing to organically grow 2000 acres of grain, hence I stated clearly that I am coming at this from a perspective of small grains production.

I promised myself I wasnt going to get involved here any more, but, you bring up a point I think about a lot, because I see it a lot.

before Roundup ready crops, Roundup was used sparingly. Spot sprayed, applied with wicks and various other methods to save the crop and get the grass and weeds.

Now I see the hi-boy sprayers spraying the entire field or fields. I know it gets all the un wanteds and keeps the fields clean. But too much of anything isnt good, be it Roundup, sugar, coffee, or whatever. And that is a big issue for me, founded or not.

Im not getting into the big business aspect because I do believe in capitalism. But I have no use for monopolies or the power they can and do exert.

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda

Ummm, so do you know any small grains producers who farm a thousand acres who no-til?

I grow organic food as well. I am a farmer. I farm in an area with a lot of folks who have tried grain farming organically. To control weeds they only have one choice: tillage. To mineralize nutrients, tillage. To "replenish" the soil, they need access to many tonnes of manure, or need to take a year off to grow forage legumes, which only replenish a little nitrogen, not phosphorous, potassium, sulfur, copper, boron, magnesium, manganese, zinc, etc.

I get my information from 20 years as a farmer of small grains.

Organic on a small scale. Absolutely it can work. But organic on the scale of small grains, is very undoable.

When my one neighbor quit organic, e did so because of weeds which were impossible to control unless he used tillage, but then they came up in crop, and stole from the crop, and seeded out. When you talk about wild mustard and wild oats seeding out, you are looking at seeds that remain viable in the soil for up to 60 years.

Question for you: On a quarter section of flax, what would be your proposal to control cleavers, hemp nettle, wild oats, storksbill, quackgrass, Canada thistle, dandelion, foxtail barley, and volunteer wheat.

Be specific, let us know what you would do "organically" to control these weeds, do a good job of it, and grow as many bushels as those who actually control these weeds with herbicides.

Explain the fertility program for the flax you would use. How would you apply your nitrogen? Phosphate? Sulfur? Potassium? Zinc? How would you get an accurate ratio of these nutrients without over applying some of them?

Seeing as you seem to think I am just dumb, I am curious as to how and what your program would be for this quarter of flax.... What would your program be? Lets hear it. Because where I get my information from, is experience, and a major in soil and crop science. I am not positive where you get your information from, but you obviously think it is from a better place than me.

Lets hear your flax program.

Bobby, yes, roundup was used sparingly. There was far more atrazine, 2 4 D, and a myriad of other chemicals used, and in much greater quantities. Most of these chemicals created "carry over" meaning that it remained in the soil the next year. Spray corn with atrazine? It might kill your soy beans next year. Corn was also sprayed for nematodes, with mature ears. This means chemicals were sprayed on the part of the plant that people and livestock actually ate. bt genetics eliminates the need for this chemical. The average field was sprayed multiple times throughout the entire season. RR/bt corn is sprayed ONCE, very early in the growing cycle, and there is no carry over. It will not even kill a plant that emerges an hour after the chemical is applied.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

So true and with todays technology they use ONLY what is needed and then ONLY in areas that need it.
They use GPS technology. And those huge sprayers are tied into the GPS Satellites. And those sats CONTROL what area MAY need more, and what areas may need Less. ANY farmer these days with the cots of everything sky high ONLY wants to put on as little as possible of ANY so called chemical on their fields. I KNOW this from first hand knowledge that is used on a field that is right next to my driveway.

__________________
Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

See My Pictures at
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0903/arabianknight/

Something to consider.... it's not safe to assume organic is the same as GMO free. Most organic cheese is made using chymosin instead of traditional calf stomach derived rennet. Most chymosin for the last 25 years in the world has been produced by genetically modified yeast with calf genes inserted into it's DNA. Some is also taken from the stomachs of cloned lambs and piglets with calf DNA inserted into their DNA to allow them to produce it. Most (not all) certifying agencies don't differentiate between the source of chymosin, it can still be used to make organic cheese, and also organic whey as a byproduct which is then used in hundreds, maybe thousands of organic baked and other goods.

So to recap - tinkering with the DNA within a single species, with no outside DNA introduced = frankenfood, playing with the building blocks of life, unsafe, untested, "won't somebody think of the children"
taking DNA from an animal and inserting it into not just another species, but a species in an entirely different kingdom of organism = organic, safe, tested, wholesome and natural

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

__________________
The internet - fueling paranoia and misinformation since 1873.

I farmed on the Texas Gulf Coast for years and I used Atrazine. I am very well aware of what it can and cant do.

I wasnt looking for an explanation or a justification. I was merely making an observation.

And since nearly every time I make an observation, I get quoted and basically talked down to, ( which is what any of you are doing when you quote a person and then either run them down and talk to them like a kid ) I guarantee I wont be commenting on these topics again.


It is just a waste of time since no one's mind is going to be changed on either side.

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda

Another excellent reason to require labeling of all GM ingredients

Bobby, I wasn't talking down to you, I was making a counterpoint. We are adults here.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent