"Organic not healthier" rebuttal

I don't doubt that you apply your chemicals at the proper rates, but that doesn't mean that all chemicals are always are broken down before they are ingested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367841/

__________________
An herbicide company selling seeds makes about as much sense as a doctor's office selling cigarettes.

He made a lot of allegations
They don't change the results of the study

"Higher" doesn't mean "dangerous" and "bacteria" doesn't mean types harmful to humans

It's all innuendo.
And did you notice he threw in a few remarks about "it's to keep the CHILDREN SAFE"?

That's a sure sign the facts don't verify the claims

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

II would think it they expect to refute a Harvard study, they NEED to cite their data

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

They WHY did he mention it in referrence to a study about CROPS?
See why it's not credible?

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Did you notice the metabolites they found mostly came from "fruits, vegetables, and wheat"?

If all they found were metabolites, how do they know any real pesticides were even present?

And it's all about CHILDREN

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

As I read it, the response to the study wasn't intended to counter the results with differing science, but to critique the methodology. Which, by the way wasn't a new collection of data, but a sampling of previous studies, which by it's very nature is a "pick and choose" selection method.

When it comes to chemicals designed kill, "higher" means "dangerous to me. Your mileage may vary.

The antibiotic resistant bacteria discussed in the study may in fact be benign to humans, but the fact that bacteria are becoming antibiotic resistant is a major health concern.

Of course he mentioned children, he's a pediatrician.

__________________
An herbicide company selling seeds makes about as much sense as a doctor's office selling cigarettes.

Everything I've read states the study looked at produce as well as meat.

from http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/03/health...s-conventional
Should you buy organic?
"We did find that organic produce, so fruits and vegetables, had a 30% lower risk of contamination with pesticide residues compared to conventional produce," said Dr. Crystal Smith-Spangler of Stanford University, the lead study author.
The study, which used data from hundreds of previous studies, also looked at pork and chicken.

__________________
An herbicide company selling seeds makes about as much sense as a doctor's office selling cigarettes.

Much like organic companies are after your dollar...they are profiting on your fear and your lack of basic knowledge.

__________________

I'd call 200 more than just a "sampling"
Greene may not like the "methodology", but it doesn't change the results of the studies reviewed.

It's remotely possible Harvard was biased, but I see no motive for them to be so.
It's certain Dr Greene is biased, and his motive is CASH

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Right like I said, it doesn't change the results, just questions how the results were obtained.

__________________
An herbicide company selling seeds makes about as much sense as a doctor's office selling cigarettes.

Humans like to think they understand everything, but that is far from the truth. How many times has a once accepted truth been found to be false, only to have people several years later beleive anyone thinking that way was stupid.

I am not sure what is safe, but I am pretty sure the bug hole in my lettuce will have a lesser chance of causing harm than a chemical that can kill another life form. We need to find a better way of industrial farming that isn't mining the land.

__________________
www.jlmissouri.com Lewis Family Farm

You are absolutely correct and you proved your own point.
You and I and many others want to believe that the chemicals that kill cabbage leaf worms are harmful to us and a head of cabbage with worms is better.
But as we gain knowledge and understanding about how an insecticide works and we measure its concentration and effects on humans, our accepted truth becomes nonsense. For those that believe in homeopathic methods of getting rid of internal parasites with garlic, cinnamon or DE, we accept that things that are deadly to one thing are safe for us. But we shut up our brain to believing that it can be done in another way.

Often, avoiding chemicals in our gardens or orchards is a part of the foundation that we build our homesteads on. To accept a truth that undermines that belief destroys our core beliefs.

Most farms that you say are mining the soil are getting larger and larger crops year after year and have been for a hundred years. Dismiss their success if you must, but their soils are more fertile now than when grandpa plowed with horses (and with a lot less erosion). The proof is there, but it is hard to accept.

I'll offer another way to look at it. You have $X to spend on groceries. Which is healthier, buying lots of conventionally raised produce or less of the more expensive organic produce? Example: I have gotten into the habit of eating a salad with every meal. If i were to buy organic produce I could not afford to do that (with grocery prices as they are I can barely afford it with conventional produce). Aren't I healthier eating fresh produce every day that I would be eating it a few time a week? Just one way to look at it.

All I know is I am stocking up on TV dinners and grocery store stuff. When its garden time I cant take time for all the prep to fix meals while I am trying to hoe weeds and prep stuff for canning and freezing. So sometimes I just eat a TV dinner while I am pitting cherries and snapping beans or a frozen burrito while hoeing weeds, picking bugs out of my organic garden

__________________
Thinking is hard. Feeling and believing a storyline is easy.

FREEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOOOMMM!!!

Prof Kingsfield. Rules!!





http://tnwoodwright.blogspot.com/

Depends on whether you can tolerate chemical residues or not - some people cannot. You could grow your lettuce and other veggies yourself and save the money. I do it in pots in a subdivision, and I don't spray anything on my lettuce, radishes, onions, and it seems to be doing fine. I use compost, cow manure, regular garden soil, and a little sand. Seems to work alright and I get enough for DH and I and a little to put in freezer when the tomatoes and peppers get ripe. I tuck veggie plants in amongst the flowers in the flower beds, looks pretty nice and the flowers help hide the veggies from the birds and bugs.

There are large scale organic farms that seem to do quite well selling to the public and are cheaper than buying organic from the grocery store. If you really are interested, you can google "organic farms, your area" or and see what pops up. I have found quite a few close to Huntsville that sell to the public and are cheaper than buying from the grocery store.

I also eat salad every day, I buy it in the winter when I can't grow it. The rest of the year, I grow what I can and buy the rest. Wish I had a greenhouse and I would probably never go to the market again for veggies.

__________________
Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

"Depends on whether you can tolerate chemical residues or not - some people cannot. You could grow your lettuce and other veggies yourself and save the money. I do it in pots in a subdivision, and I don't spray anything on my lettuce, radishes, onions, and it seems to be doing fine. I use compost, cow manure, regular garden soil, and a little sand."

The knowledge and experience, plus the fresh air is doing you good. You are assuming there are chemical residues on commercial fruits and vegetables. That is actually uncommon. There are also chemical residues on your plants from the subdivision and other industrial areas.
Google West Michigan Food Co-op. In Michigan, at MSU, they operate a hoop house, no added heat, providing food 48 weeks a year.

I agree that erosion control practices are getting better, but until you start building soil you are still mining. I don't hate conventional farmers I find them to be the salt of the earth, but they do seem to turn a blind eye to the truth on some things.

I have friends with a huge farm, thousands of acres. I love running the big tractors and working the land, I see the attraction, but I have also seen the foot difference between a farmed field and a prairie that has been left fallow for a long time. That can only continue for so long before you are down to clay or bedrock.

Just because current science is getting better at finding what chemicals to put into an inert soil to give good yields doesn't fix anything. At some time something wil change, I am for changing in advance before you have no choice. Hoping science will fix the problems in time is a poor choice.

__________________
www.jlmissouri.com Lewis Family Farm

What is it you seem to think needs "fixing"?

How is your way any different than conventional, other than chemical pesticides?

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Why not just prepare a little extra during your down time to freeze? The sodium in those frozen dinners will kill you.

__________________
Chuck

"Getting better" is an understatement that borders on insult.
Do some environmental history research. Read up on " Dirty Thirties". Also read about the tons of topsoil that washed off each acre and now rests in the Mississippi Delta, due to 100 years of moldboard plowing. Today's No Till crop plan places crop residue on the surface to reduce wind and water erosion.

Modern farming methods are not the result of how much fun it is to drive a big tractor.
Adding the nutrients that maximize yields, without adding too much is a science. I don't understand why you think replacing the nutrients doesn't fix anything. Adding manure adds humus to the soil, but it is rare that the manure's NPK levels match the soil's needs. Adding more than the plants need and the soil can hold is wasteful use of a fertilizer and harmful to the environment.
"Turning a Blind Eye" is a form of rationalization. It works both ways.