Tractor models that were lemons

J how can you campare the brakes on a Regular to those on the Supers LOL

BUT, I thought the only difference was that on the supers they went to disc brakes, instead of band brakes. I thought the disc brakes were supposed to be better?

IH or IHC is International Harvester Co. Also made Farmalls and McCormick Deering. JD is John DeerE. 6000 was a medium Ford product with a Selecto-shift transmission. The transmission wasn't heavy enough for that size tractor, lost engine horsepower to the transmission in heavy operation. Early powershift or hyd drive transmission. Farmall H and M were models of rowcrop tractors from 1939 to 1954, Super H and M were late models with more engine horsepower and some had a 2 speed to double the transmission gear selections that could be used without the clutch, called a TA. JD had an M, H B, A and G in row crop models and General purpose models. They had an earlier model, the GP or General purpose model. Agco now owns MF along with other makes....James

Oh boy.....

6000- Ford tractor model
Gp- a John Deere model
IHC- International Harvester Company
H- popular IHC tractor, also JD made one also.
M- very popular bigger version of the IHC H tractor model.
G- popular JD tractor model, tho I believe other companies also used that letter for a model.
M-F is now a part of Agco and represents the Agco tractor division now, but it was not always that way. Agco is made up of over 12 different ag companies that failed or sold out for various economic reasons, mostly starting with the horrible 1980s ag economy.


Entire books are written to sort all that out.....

As time evolved, there were 100s of equipment manufacturers, and they died or combined to form the current ones:

John Deere.

Case-IH/ New Holland.

Agco.

Those three are pretty much owners of all the old USA brands of farm machinery that made tractors.

For lemons, Ford (now New Holland, owned by the same company that owns Case-Ih) made the 6000 model, which was both ugly and unreliable and had several issues. They eventually got it much better, but the damage was done, its an official lemon. Any of the Ford tractors with the Select-O-Speed tranny is considered a lemon - while they did perfect upon the early failures, it is too complicated and too suspect to be considered good. John Deere 'stole' the engineer who created that tranny from Ford, and went on to perfect it and created their very popular and strong Powershift tranny in their 4020 tractors... So it was a good idea, just not quite right in the early Fords. Before its time. When the farm economy went bad in 1980, Ford wanted out of the farm market, and sold off their ag division, New Holland was a strong hay making machinery company and merged up, took over the name, and struggled a lot until they were bought by the same company that eventually owned Case-IH. So now New Holland and Case-IH are run independent, but share a lot of parts and so forth in new designs....

John Deere had a 2000 lineup of tractors (the models started with a '2') that just weren't up to spec, most consider them poorer than the other JD lineup. They happened to have a lot of cash sitting around in the 1980s, and were able to survive without drastic changes, but as much by dumb luck as anything, and they tend to buy up existing designs, fiddle with them, paint them green, and proclaim them a new JD idea.... Probably not a bad business model, seems to have worked well, but not nearly as innovative as they pretend.

International Harvester (now combined with Case) made some tractor models with weak rear ends. More engine than tranny, not a good thing. Their H and M models were, however, the old school backbone of their tractor building, and beyond reproach! Fine models. Case never was a real big company, and the failing transmissions and bad economy of the 1980s really hurt IHC, so a company invested in and bought both, tried to make a single better ag company out of it. Many many struggles there, but they are doing well now.

Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, Allis Chalmers, Massey Ferguson, and White all were tractor makers that got folded together and combined into Agco. They all had better and worse models as well. They got too small, ran into money issues, and the bad farm economy of the 1980s killed them. Basically they are left with Massey Ferguson as their branded tractor now, after many different directions. There are a few bits of tranny, engine, or hydraulic design from the early companies left over in the new models.


Paul

I would avoid this model as I do not have the counterweight.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Zetor Crystals were a rolling repair bill, "Universal" brand versions of the reliable Fiat/Cockshutt/White 2-60 and similar were a fail, Not that the originals didn't have tranny issues. Leylands should be avoided, Nuffiields not much better. Case 1690 and 1594 with that wretched split head David Brown engine were fails, early selectomatic DB's could be troublesome with their hydraulics but generally are OK. Massey 399's had ify trannies, and MF did import Eastern Euro tractors that are pretty cruddy. Larger Duetz's needed that Allis Chalmers tranny to be any good. I personally wouldn't buy an older hydro tranny tractor, of any make. Except maybe Kubota. Belarus 600 605 610 611 615? have serious tranny issues, the 250 and 300 were cranky beasts too. I disliked the IH 74 series, the shifter was right where a coat could snag it getting off.... but they have a good reputation.

__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

I can drive with one tire off the front on alla my tractors cept the Cub Farmall

Thank You!!! I am learning, but still a bit And a Thank You to you too, Rambler.

I had to go and look up the term "Gerty" but
Yes I am a Gerty, Thanks be to God.

Have my shopping list set up, but cannot put in on the site, not sure why.

The Farmall H was their best seller. 391,227 units built compared to 270,140 Ms and 79,972 Cs. I doubt they would have been that popular if they were lemons. Oh yeah, back in the day, a brand new H sold for $2000

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda

I told of 6 Hs I knew around my neighborhood. I knew of only one C, and only one M, and my uncle had it, which I bought in 65 at his sale when he died.

I read that Bill.

There were 2 other farmers on the place I grew up on besides my Dad and Grandpa. Those 4 people had 6 H or Super Hs between them just on 1place.

And Hs pop up for sale on Craigslist and other places far more often than any other tractor of the time.

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda

I had a 2010 JD. The hydraulic pump is sensitive to a little dirt. It has a wire mesh strainer which does not always respond well to cleaning and sometimes needs to be replaced. Possibly boiling in ammonia would work.

The transmission on mine gave trouble and required gear or bearing replacment. It also was difficult to get adjusted right. Linkage under the transmission was difficult to get right.

All Ford 6000s had selectospeed and mechanics who understood them are not around. The hydraulic pump causes trouble when it gets a little dirt or trash in it. The diesel engine is a reworked gas engine from the medium duty trucks of the late 1960s. They do not have enough bearing support for a diesel engine and the crankshaft is too small. I'm repeating info from an old time Ford dealer of that period. Leave 6000s for collectors parade tractors.

Like another post said, all Selectospeed Fords are suspect. To change a later model 3000 or 4000 Selectospeed to a standard transmission, a new rear end and transmission housing plus a transmission plus a flywheel and clutch assembly is needed. That said, they work good for light pto work if the transmission is in good shape. They don't hold up to plowing.

COWS

I heard that all my life. Knew of a couple in the area and they were never in the field much.

When the ranch traded their 560 D for a row crop 5000, the dealer, who was a life long friend of my family had a lot of convincing to do because dad was afraid it would be the same issues. He just didnt know what the issues were, or fully understand them.

That 5000 was running just as strong when the ranch sold out as it was on day 1.

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda

I used Int H and Allis WD45 growing up, never had a problem, I later owned a JD 4010 and it was a great tractor, lemon was how you took care of it I suppose......

I wanted to disc my ground today. it drizzled off and on till neare noon when it got to a rain that wasnt bad, but yoou wouldnt want to be in it, Figured as I thought I heard it would get worse as the day went on, so i took the 39As grill and new screen for it to a neighbor, and we spent 3hrs getting that stiff nassa wire screen to fit and get it welded.

NEVER RASINED a DROP

Aw now, c'mon man!

My old 1973 Romanian-built Long does have its quirks (namely weak hydraulics), but it pulls really well for its size.

And as an added advantage, can be worked on by trained carpenters and other people with mechanical skills...

Opps, Yea regular M or H, not the old Farmall Regular. The super had a bigger engine too, same as the 400. Dad always put the big pistons in all his tractors, they were called a super kit. Never liked the disk brakes, always needed cleaning and adjusting. Band brakes went longer between adjustments and you could really put the push to them. Seemed the supers, you could push all you wanted and if worn, not so much. Dad farmed a 1000 acres, half in Oregon, half in Maine, all through the late 30's and 40's with farmall H's. He even hauled one back and forth, stopping in Arizona for the winter and plowed a lot of ground all winter, vegetable crops....James

Probably not a lemon per se, just poorly designed. Hard to start in the winter, too high a profile for it's size, tippy, clutch activated PTO and hydraulics. Been around several and just didn't like them.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

I had a feeling it was something like this. Being around a couple and having a personal dislike does not make a lemon.

At the time it was built it was leading technology for its size. 6 volt systems are by nature touchier in cold weather. You will have to name a tractor from that era that had live hydrauics and pto. Maybe one or 2, I dont know, but the majority were all the same.

Maybe tippy on a side hill or doing something silly, but even the old 3 wheel ATVs would turn over if you were stupid. Thats why they were discontinued.

__________________
" Do or do not, there is no try. " - Yoda