Arts education survey,

**Tiempo** · #41 03/06/13, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Math plays a much larger role in the farrier trade than you may realize...

Um, it's what I do I think I realize more than someone who doesn't do it what is involved.

And as I have said, I'm not saying math shouldn't be taught, I'm saying that art should.

Yvonne's hubby · #42 03/06/13, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiempo

Um, it's what I do I think I realize more than someone who doesn't do it what is involved.

And as I have said, I'm not saying math shouldn't be taught, I'm saying that art should.

What makes you think the grandson who grew up on the farm of an old time horse trader might not be somewhat familiar with a horse shoe? Or how to make and shrink a tyre on a wagon wheel?

I am not opposed to the teaching of art.... in college, where those few who wish to play with it are paying for it.

ChristieAcres · #43 03/06/13, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrugs

This is a short survey my friend asked Me to post on here. Sorry if it's no the right section to post this in.
2. Would you rather be in an art class(painting, drawing, Theatre, metal arts, etc.) or on a sports team?

Art Class, hands down!

2. Do you think that the arts classes should get more funding then they are getting?

Most funding is wasted and poorly managed in my opinion so no. I had a blast putting together my own art classes for my DS and DD. Amazing to share, my DD is an Artist and I am NOT, just creative... I paid for everything and did I ever utilize my $ well...

3. Do you think arts skills or sports skills are more important to a persons livelihood in the long run?

Art skills are more important to those more gifted in those areas, sport skills for those gifted more in those areas (equally to those gifted in both). If the livelihood doesn't entail either, then neither would be relevant.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since many don't work in vocations requiring art skills or sport skills, the OP wouldn't apply to their vocations.

Now, enjoyment of life? I enjoy hiking, riding on the back of DH's motorcycle, camping, fishing, crabbing, and shrimping. Also, I enjoy gardening, working the soil, and outdoor activities of most kinds. Physical? Yes! Did I enjoy playing sports? NO. Kids shouldn't be required to play sports. That should be elective. Now, physical fitness is an entirely different matter. I believe all children should be required to be physically fit. That isn't attained through only playing sports, but by all kinds of other physical activities, too. I sketch, do calligraphy, sew, needlepoint, etc... So, I enjoy art. Sell it? No.

Use math? Every job I have ever held! The fact I am a good photographer helps with my Real Estate work. I don't have to pay for pictures to be taken...

**Tiempo** · #44 03/06/13, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

What makes you think the grandson who grew up on the farm of an old time horse trader might not be somewhat familiar with a horse shoe? Or how to make and shrink a tyre on a wagon wheel?

I am not opposed to the teaching of art.... in college, where those few who wish to play with it are paying for it.

But my point is it's not 'playing' or a 'hobby' if it's integral to a chosen career. And try getting into a good fine arts program in college without solid arts training already under your belt.

Anyone who has had any serious art education will tell you than in many ways it is a science.

Yvonne's hubby · #45 03/06/13, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Since many don't work in vocations requiring art skills or sport skills, the OP wouldn't apply to their vocations.

Use math? Every job I have ever held! The fact I am a good photographer helps with my Real Estate work. I don't have to pay for pictures to be taken...

This is my way of thinking on it too.... since the vast majority of vocations and careers are dependent upon math skills, along with communication skills, it just seems to me that those would be the subjects getting the vast majority of funding to be taught. Sports, art and music have their place, but way at the bottom of the scale. There just arent that many students who are going to be using them in their adult careers.

Yvonne's hubby · #46 03/06/13, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiempo

But my point is it's not 'playing' or a 'hobby' if it's integral to a chosen career. And try getting into a good fine arts program in college without solid arts training already under your belt.

Anyone who has had any serious art education will tell you than in many ways it is a science.

I will agree with you that there is a lot of science at the root of most art, music especially, but most of the great artists rely on talent.... not instruction. I have also observed over the years that there is a very fine line in the workings of the minds between those who are artistic and autistic.

ETA: And on this happy note, I am off to the kitchen to apply my creative talents to a bunch of veggies... My Yvonne will be home soon, and if her supper isnt ready when she gets here.....

Ohio dreamer · #47 03/06/13, 05:53 PM

As a person with physical issues (bad hips and arthritis....since birth) I'd say I'd take art long before I'd play sports. Also no one in my house has a competitve bone in their body.....so sports are of no interest to us.

Money....art is an academic class. Usually required for all students to take. If done well (big if) can augment every student's life. Sports truly is only beneficial for a handful of students (although, in some districts it does generate revenue which can be used in other ways). I'm a big "pay for play" within reason person. I see nothing wrong with a student having to come up with some of the money to cover the cost of their sport (I know some sports cost too much for student to come up with 100% of the funding, but they could put $200 or so towards it. I also feel it is the responsibility of the parent, not the school, to transport the child to events. Team busses should be owned and paid for with private moneys...not school funds).

In the long run....it comes down to the person. Art has made a huge impact on my life, sports hasn't. My husband played sports in school....but have had no impact on his life. It comes down to what the individual does with each experience to determine is worth. Some kids find themselves in sports, some in arts. I believe both need to be available to students.

geo in mi · #48 03/06/13, 06:38 PM

I'd rather be fishing.

geo

Laura · #49 03/06/13, 06:58 PM

Art, Music and Physical Education play large roles in an integrated education and personal development in children of all ages. The Whole Child approach works best, exposing children to the full range of their possiblities. Even if they may suck at it, they learn something and may develop on the knowledge later.

Creative outlets and physical activity stimulates the brain so kids can learn the other stuff, too.

In our community, any kid who wants to do sports, gets to do sports. Private citizens put up the money to cover the fees for those who can't afford it. They buy new equipment, pay for transportation and maintenance for the playing fields. We have many volunteer coaches.

What does the community get? We have a lot of physically fit kids with good attitudes learning teamwork, pushing themselves a little harder to succeed and supporting each other. They stay away from drugs and alcohol and maintain their grades to stay on the teams.

DaleK · #50 03/06/13, 07:12 PM

Arts are part of the curriculum here. Sports are extras other than PE up to grade 9 (and not available at all in K-8 due to teachers union issues at the moment).

In high school I remember going to band practice every Wednesday (in addition to music class during regular hours) after school in my cleats and football pants with my pads and helmet beside me, then putting my instrument away and putting the rest of my equipment on in the hall (while giving a free show since I didn't wear a shirt under my pads).

Through 4 years of university, with 4 hours of practice and team meetings every day, to get a Math/Computer Science/Economics degree from a liberal arts university. I think I would have stuck it out without sports but many of my teammates wouldn't.

Either one is fine but either one can also become an easy out, arts more so though. Ask the 35 year old Starbucks barista next time, I'll bet they have an arts background rather than sports.

forphase1 · #51 03/06/13, 07:17 PM

1. Would you rather be in an art class(painting, drawing, Theatre, metal arts, etc.) or on a sports team? - Sports team

2. Do you think that the arts classes should get more funding then they are getting? - No.

3. Do you think arts skills or sports skills are more important to a persons livelihood in the long run? - Sports skills, if only for the physical fitness aspect. I'd chose neither if it were an option.

Awnry Abe · #52 03/06/13, 08:05 PM

1) sports team, specifically slow pitch. But I love the arts and would definitely spent several a credit hour there.

2) I think everyone should have more funds, especially the crazy goat ladies. No, seriously. My official answer, as asked, is 'no'. They will just waste it on crayons.

3) Both. 2 pt perspective has served me well in drawing conceptual plans for farm structures. And the other day I came reasonably close at flinging a stick at a ferrel cat that looked in the general direction of my brooding pen. For your friend, I could seriously argue either side here.

And I do not concur with the Sports = Physical Activity assertion. Many a valuable life lesson can be learned in sports, even when sitting at the far end of the bench.

As for the arts, I think our society devalues and under appreciates them. It wasn't asked, but I think we would be far better off if everyone picked up a pencil and started drawing. Or an instrument and started playing, or a comedy and started acting, or....

wyld thang · #53 03/06/13, 08:25 PM

Tiempo, just sayin, I noticed you said ALGEBRA. Obviously you use counting skills and basic geometry in shoeing. Though I suppose your art training in observation and relationships and golden mean(dang...geometry again) blah blah blah prolly gave you a good sense in eyeballing those angles pretty accurately, as well as judging whether the horse can "dance" nicely once you're done with it.

But yeah...ALGEBRA. I noticed that detail. African Sparrow n all that.

*******
OK, I will say this again, creativity helps you THINK MO BETTA. Problem solve, put stuff out of your butt with no notice, appreciate good design that is efficient and made of materials suited to the task.

I get razzed all the time about my English Lit(underwater basketweaving) degree. Sure when I got it I had no clue what I wanted to do and was under the gun to finish up a degree(in three years). What did I learn from English Lit? How to think about life, to observe the ongoing overarching human myth, to listen to people's stories. I've done a lot of different jobs--wrangler, graphic designer, librarian, fashion designer(taught myself pattern drafting btw, which talk about math and geometry...), business owner (in which I took a complicated set of tasks and organized the process so it was efficient and had great quality control), and now I'm a roving sub.

If I had to do it over again I'd double major in environmental science and graphic design. But hey, I been giving myself an education in all that all along anyway, cracking books here and there, watching the trees grow.

wyld thang · #54 03/06/13, 08:25 PM

no wait! SWALLOW! AHHHHHHHHHHH!

ChristieAcres · #55 03/06/13, 08:30 PM

Quote:

And I do not concur with the Sports = Physical Activity assertion. Many a valuable life lesson can be learned in sports, even when sitting at the far end of the bench.

Consider the children who are highly gifted intellectually, but lack the coordination/strength to do sports. Then, consider those children who are growing up with physical handicaps. Then there are those who are being treated for cancer and other diseases... Forcing any child into sports is a great way to make that child feel inferior to the others.

How do I know? I was one of those children who did great in school, but lacked coordination in sports. I was forced to play sports in PE, when that was common. Then, I got ridiculed due to my inability to throw balls properly, run as far (asthma)... Physically fit? YES! But not gifted for sports at all. Now, I could ride a horse better than most, can hike for miles, and now I can run when I need to (don't like it, however). Compete in any sports? No thanks.

There are other ways to teach children team work building skills than expecting them to learn it while playing sports.

wyld thang · #56 03/06/13, 09:01 PM

Coordination and strength can be imporoved with proper training. All you need is your body weight and the want to(the HARDEST part)

Yeah I remember being flogged around the track, puking and no breath. But I love to run now...the proper training made all the difference.

There is a video on youtube about a vet who was in a wheelchair using canes, very overweight etc. He started doing yoga and is now in incredible health and shape. He took a totally broken sick body and made it thrive. That's what I'm talking about, THINKING powerfully and creatively. I'm sorry I can't find it right off.

Unfortunately school sports/physical education most often just become programs to identify and recruit the talented. Phys ed should be all about building a healthy body and teaching what is a healthy body and getting all the kids to experience the great bennies.

Says someone who was raised on three outdoor recesses a day, rain or shine, snow or green green grass, monkey bars in the sky, woods in back.

wyld thang · #57 03/06/13, 09:07 PM

found it!

THIS is what phys ed should be, needs to be, desparately (IMO)

ChristieAcres · #58 03/06/13, 09:09 PM

The point is desire to physically compete with others. I never had that desire. I did, however, stay in shape my entire childhood and adult life. It wasn't until I became an adult, that I learned how to condition to the point of getting in athlete condition. These days, I just go for physical fitness and hiking (hiking 10 miles is where I am right now). By next month, I'll be in hiking shape (20 miles).

I should add here that some folks don't enjoy sports at all. I'd rather watch others play volleyball than play.

Awnry Abe · #59 03/06/13, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Consider the children who are highly gifted intellectually, but lack the coordination/strength to do sports. Then, consider those children who are growing up with physical handicaps. Then there are those who are being treated for cancer and other diseases... Forcing any child into sports is a great way to make that child feel inferior to the others.

How do I know? I was one of those children who did great in school, but lacked coordination in sports. I was forced to play sports in PE, when that was common. Then, I got ridiculed due to my inability to throw balls properly, run as far (asthma)... Physically fit? YES! But not gifted for sports at all. Now, I could ride a horse better than most, can hike for miles, and now I can run when I need to (don't like it, however). Compete in any sports? No thanks.

There are other ways to teach children team work building skills than expecting them to learn it while playing sports.

Maybe I missed the point of this poll...I have taken a few blows to the head on the field and have ingested a bit too much of the supplies in the art closet, after all. And Wyld, I may have gotten to your headline and glossed over your explaination (sorry).

I am in no way a fan of "teaching a kid a lesson" by forcing them into sports, (even PE), against their will. Even though knowing what you are capable of is an important life skill, I wasn't referring to that one. I just don't roll that way. Our school has a 1 credit hour PE requirement. I think it is a waste and stupid for the reasons you and I experienced in real time. When I pay for my kids education, as we all do, I look at that one hour and ask, "Really? I'd really rather let my kid fill that slot with something they would rather do." If Wyld shaped the curriculum, I may have second thoughts.

As I understand the original OP poll, I do not equate sports with physical activity. There is a reason for arts, sports, and physical activity. And they are not the same. Arts are important for personal expression, sports for comptitive achievment, and physical activity for health. I am "old school" in that I think participation trophies should be tossed in the trash. Attempting to win is a worthwhile endeavor, and defeat is a powerful lesson. Physical activity is but one component of sports, and isn't even a necessary component. My son actually argues that debate is a sport, but I don't completely agree. But it does have so many of the life-teaching elements of sports that I think are "worth the money". And on the complete other end of the spectrum is something like cheer, which is all three: sport (not the sport you are cheering for), physical activity, and art!

Bearfootfarm · #60 03/07/13, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiempo

Arts education is education.

I have used my arts training throughout my life to make a living in one way or another. While I wouldn't cut algebra (for example) by any means, it has played little to no part in my earning a living. Ever.

For the majority, arts is a fleeting hobby at best.
Math, Science, Literature, etc apply to EVERYTHING in life, including "arts"

Anyone going to tax funded schools should be getting basic education
Teach them some basics ABOUT art if you want, but don't spend time teaching them how to DO it

If they want to be "artists" they can choose a good art school to attend on their time and money