Best Homestead Dog?

LisaInN.Idaho · #21 02/24/13, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Thank you.
I've done some animal shelter work aand have seen some nice dogs euthinized. It is a crime, in my mind, to bypass a shelter and encourage a puppy mill by only looking at puppies. Puppy mills masquerade as Craigslst ads, Rescues and Fosters.

Then go ahead and call me a criminal because when I was looking for a dog with hundreds of years of genetics in guarding livestock, I went for a Great Pyrenees from a breeder of working dogs of good health and conformation. When I wanted a herding dog I got a border collie , and when I wanted a dog from good lines as a family dog with small children, I went for a Border Terrier from a breeder I know and trust. There is no crime in picking the dog you want rather than a rescue to make up for the bad judgement and mistakes that other people have made.

Conhntr · #22 02/24/13, 06:58 PM

Shelter dogs are a religion. At best you end up with a dog of unkown breeding/health history that has not been well trained. At worst you end up with something beyond repair (happens often). An abused mutt is not a great dog for anyone, especially a first timer.

I find it a little odd hearing people preach about shelters euthanizing dogs while there are millions of abortions of HUMAN babies a year!

julieq · #23 02/24/13, 07:10 PM

We have a medium sized terrier mix house dog, actually still a puppy, from the local shelter. For outside, we have a german shepherd female that we purchased as a puppy and a mature rottie mix that we found at the local animal shelter. The female goes ballistic when the local coyote/dog packs come close to the property and the rottie mix hides in his house. The rottie mix was apparently abused by someone in his former life, as he hates anyone on two legs except for us. He goes nuts when he hears another voice, or a vehicle come up the driveway. We love all three and we're pretty much covered on our homestead!

Sparticle · #24 02/24/13, 07:48 PM

I didn't read all the replies. We've had a lot of dogs out here and so far the best watch dog would have to be a combo. The Border Terrier is always on alert, listening and paying attention. She's also fearless. She sounds the warning for the other bigger dogs who have the muscle and deep bark to follow up what ever needs to be done, up until he died, that was our black lab. But the Mix basset and yellow lab and also the Beagle are right there chasing off whatever, including coyotes. They work as a team, they are all homeless hobo mutts,and all of them work excellently together.

LisaInN.Idaho · #25 02/24/13, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticle

I didn't read all the replies. We've had a lot of dogs out here and so far the best watch dog would have to be a combo. The Border Terrier is always on alert, listening and paying attention. She's also fearless. She sounds the warning for the other bigger dogs who have the muscle and deep bark to follow up what ever needs to be done, up until he died, that was our black lab. But the Mix basset and yellow lab and also the Beagle are right there chasing off whatever, including coyotes. They work as a team, they are all homeless hobo mutts,and all of them work excellently together.

How do you have a Border Terrier that is a mutt?

Waterwheel Farm · #26 02/24/13, 08:36 PM

Plenty of honest opinions here. I have two black lab mixes, both rescues. Blockheads they may be, but they sure are loving and they are alert dogs, not attack dogs. That's what fits for me.....just let me know that something is amiss and I'll be the one that decides how to take care of the business end of things around here, not the dogs.

Best Homestead Dog? - Homesteading Questions

arnie · #27 02/24/13, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conhntr

What are the differences beetween mountain and blackmouth? Seeing as how they are hound related do they tend to wander? I prefer a dog that is trainable on bundries and wont try to wander. My golden is always sitting on the porch when i get home, and the two before him where the same way. There is no fence keeping in just a good trainable breed. Ive been looking for a more hardy breed. The problem with the goldens is they just dont do well left alone while im at work long hours and prefer to lounge around than keeping an eye on things!

other than treeig the curs are not near the one track minded hounds at all mine would never run a deer or bear into the next county . once one has adsepted you as his partner . whats yours is his to protect being very smart and having an inbred desire to please there is no training or reward nessary for him to do his job and that life time job is as a homesteading partner extra training is easy and you can get em to go get the cow or catch a chicken fetch a ball or news paper but they have evolved as farm dogs and if that is what you want he is the best and wont kill chickens or lambs .no heated dog house or fancy food needed but with a good one your problems with groung hogs coons stray dogs strangers are over just the blackmouths are more livestock handling type being bigger differint lines being more bred for hog catching or cattle depending what part of the country most being the pride of there familys carrying there name .like the ladner or ledbetter cur .did you know that old yeller was a blackmouth cur.

BobbyB · #28 02/24/13, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnie

other than treeig the curs are not near the one track minded hounds at all mine would never run a deer or bear into the next county . once one has adsepted you as his partner . whats yours is his to protect being very smart and having an inbred desire to please there is no training or reward nessary for him to do his job and that life time job is as a homesteading partner extra training is easy and you can get em to go get the cow or catch a chicken fetch a ball or news paper but they have evolved as farm dogs and if that is what you want he is the best and wont kill chickens or lambs .no heated dog house or fancy food needed but with a good one your problems with groung hogs coons stray dogs strangers are over just the blackmouths are more livestock handling type being bigger differint lines being more bred for hog catching or cattle depending what part of the country most being the pride of there familys carrying there name .like the ladner or ledbetter cur .did you know that old yeller was a blackmouth cur.

Funny you brought that up. A couple weeks back I posted on another forum about a hog hunt we had been on and posted a couple pics of my BMC pup. It was a bird dog forum and someone said that and it was talked about some because a few guys didnt know it.

Sculkrusha · #29 02/24/13, 09:26 PM

Oh well, i certainly wont get in an argument about which dog is best.
In mho It is the dog that fits with you and yours.
Our "Guardian" is a 180lb South African Boerboel. These dogs actually know how big and strong they are.

Cheers.....Scul

Waterwheel Farm · #30 02/24/13, 09:43 PM

Scul...
That is a beautiful dog you got there!!
WW

TedH71 · #31 02/24/13, 10:12 PM

I have a catahoula. I can safely mention that they're a high energy breed. I have to keep him contained for his safety now that he has learned to jump the fence. Have had many catahoulas over the years and he's the first one who has learned how to jump and now try to dig under the fence. I am planning to put up an electric fence. I live in the city. He has fought off the rogue lab/great dane that was trying to either attack or overwhelm my 3 year old daughter and he hunts hogs on occasion for me. I have been considering getting a blackmouth cur for a while. Not sure if they're the same behaviorally compared to catahoulas but catahoulas seem to be either what you would call high strung or high energy. The BMCs I've seen can be either high energy or laid back upon request then when they're needed, they'll jump up and do something.

Ravenlost · #32 02/24/13, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops2

BS, the best dog for any situation is the dog best suited to the given situation. Some situations are so generic that any dog can handle them and some are so specific that only a dog bred for it will be effective. The whole reason we have different types of dogs in the first place is because not every dog can do every job.
For example any dog is suitable for laying next to you while watch the latest horror movie on Netflix. OTH if I need to run down and kill coyotes on my section without crossing onto the neighboring properties, well I have as good a chance of doing that myself as the average labX from the pound. Nope, for that job I need a specific TYPE of dog designed to do the job. One with long well muscled legs, a deep chest that houses big lungs & a slightly oversized heart, a wedge shaped head with long killing jaws and a highly flexible spine that permits a double suspension gallop at speeds in excess of 40 MPH. In short, I need a sight hound and no generic mutt can fill that role. Even most lurchers will fail. Only a pure long dog will be able to do the job consistently.
The same is true of a lot of jobs. For example if you need a dog that can go down a hole and kill a chicken stealing fox, only a terrier can do that job. A 30# schnoodle can't even fit in the hole. Or rounding up 600 head on 10,000 acres of sagebrush, since the dog will be out of sight and control of the cowboy quite often it requires an instinctive ability no amount training can replace. Or running down a stock killing mt lion in an AZ June. Or picking up over 100 ducks or geese in sub freezing temps.
Trying to get any generic mutt to do any of those jobs is like trying to use pliers to turn a bolt, you might get some work done but the end result is usually a mess.

Not BS at all. You can find any breed you want at a shelter...any age, temperament, etc. The shelters in the U.S. are overrun with good dogs...mutts and purebreds.

kalmara · #33 02/24/13, 10:54 PM

As others have already said - the dog that best suits you.
I will never waste time/$'s on a "rescue" that I have no background knowledge.
Would rather pay the $'s and know what I'm taking home.

No one dog/breed is going to suit everyone.

I have Rhodesian Ridgebacks, they do what I ( female alone on acerage) need them to do. They are smart and think for themselves. Short coat/easy care. Up for a 5k hike or quite content to lie on the porch. They are alert, easy to train, protective and territorial - i.e. don't go wandering. Great with kids of all ages and can be stock proofed quickly.
Do your homework and research what will suit you

Ravenlost · #34 02/24/13, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticle

I didn't read all the replies. We've had a lot of dogs out here and so far the best watch dog would have to be a combo. The Border Terrier is always on alert, listening and paying attention. She's also fearless. She sounds the warning for the other bigger dogs who have the muscle and deep bark to follow up what ever needs to be done, up until he died, that was our black lab. But the Mix basset and yellow lab and also the Beagle are right there chasing off whatever, including coyotes. They work as a team, they are all homeless hobo mutts,and all of them work excellently together.

I totally agree. Right now we have 20 dogs. All but one are mutts. One is a pedigreed Black Lab and he isn't good for anything but being a pet. He doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body and he's never shown any interest in doing anything but swimming in the pond.

Oh, from the looks of him I suspect my bluetick beagle is purebred, but since he's a rescue he didn't have papers. He's a real sweetheart and loves to hunt.

My catahoula mix is a GEM. I love her dearly. She's a great guard dog.

We have a lot of great guard dogs...dogs that let us know if something/someone is on our property (two days ago it was a beagle sniffing around the chicken pen)...dogs that warn us of a venomous snake (or any snake actually) in our path...dogs that kill rodents, two that have killed a coyote that got to close to the house, etc. One mutt (our dearly departed Tippy) who had a natural instinct for herding, would round up our horses like a pro, even though she'd never had any training and was "just a mutt".

Rarely have we had a "bad" dog. We've had two that would kill cats. We've had a few that don't like a particular dog, but we can handle that. We have a couple that do not like people and we can handle that.

Just last week our local shelter had three adorable Great Pyrenees puppies. They went fast. Couple weeks ago they had a German Shepherd WITH papers. His owner was military and stationed overseas so he was reluctantly turned over to the shelter. He went fast.

If you've never stepped foot in a shelter, then you don't know what you are missing...nor do you know what you are talking about.

Pops2 · #35 02/24/13, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

Not BS at all. You can find any breed you want at a shelter...any age, temperament, etc. The shelters in the U.S. are overrun with good dogs...mutts and purebreds.

No you can't. First not everything can be found in every area. Second since many municipal shelters are operated by humane societies & SPCAs, many will not adopt outside a specific geographical area. Third, for the same reason as above, many will not sell their dogs to people that will work them. Fourth a lot of mix breeds look like pure breeds, but can't do the job that the purebred can because they don't have twenty plus generations of breeding for it. Fifth for a lot of rustic working breeds, if they wind up in the shelter it's because they CAN'T or WON'T do the job you want that breed for in the first place.

Just to prove my point, I just did a search on petfinder for a staghound and it came back with no matches to my criteria. Also didn't see any treeing farm shepherds. And after 17 pages of "foxhounds," I didn't see a single July or Goodman. But I did see a stolen competition running walker shipped from VA to VT. What are the chances they will ship that girl to me in UT especially if I tell them I want to use it to run coyotes?
It's been my experience, that people who genuinely believe you can get whatever you need at a shelter have:
Never needed a dog to do a VERY specific job & do it EXTREMELY well
Stuck on an ideology, just like the showies that think ribbons prove working ability
Don't grasp the concept that buying a purpose bred dog will produce a better working dog more often than rolling the dice at a shelter

And I know exactly what I'm talking about, as I have volunteered for multiple shelters in multiple states. And I've turned a few pound puppies into fair pig dogs. OTH, I have yet to see a pound puppy turned into a $30,000 dry ground cat hound.

**highlands** · #36 02/25/13, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops2

BS, the best dog for any situation is the dog best suited to the given situation. Some situations are so generic that any dog can handle them and some are so specific that only a dog bred for it will be effective. The whole reason we have different types of dogs in the first place is because not every dog can do every job. ... Trying to get any generic mutt to do any of those jobs is like trying to use pliers to turn a bolt, you might get some work done but the end result is usually a mess.

Exactly.

"Rescuing" from "shelters" is a nice politically correct idea but it is not a source of good working dogs. On top of that the shelter dogs rarely have the right instincts and upbringing to be proper working dogs. Working dogs need to be raised with the target livestock and ideally they should be trained by older dogs already experienced at doing the work. This makes a huge difference.

We have a large pack of dogs because we have a lot of livestock, a large acreage for them to cover and very heavy predator pressures. Our dogs do both guarding and herding. That requires a combination of body form, instinct, exposure and training. Without all of those components together they wouldn't be able to do their job. Virtually no shelter dog can drop into their job. Dogs without the double fur coat would die in our cold climate. Dogs without the deep chest, large lungs and long legs wouldn't be able to keep up in our rough mountain terrain. Dogs without the strong long jaws wouldn't be as good at fighting predators. These are not pets, they're working animals who have jobs to do. They are a pack, a highly trained team and woe is the predator that messes with their livestock. I would not want to farm or homestead without dogs as helpers.

It is odd how this question keeps getting asked. Not just about dogs but "what is the best X?" [pig, sheep, chicken, cow, etc.] There is no best because situations differ.

**highlands** · #37 02/25/13, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

Not BS at all. You can find any breed you want at a shelter...any age, temperament, etc. The shelters in the U.S. are overrun with good dogs...mutts and purebreds.

But how many of those shelter dogs have the exposure to the target livestock?

How many of them have been trained by older dogs already doing the job?

How many have gotten advanced training from a human who knows the stock?

How many have experience on the ground with guarding, fighting and killing predators and herding livestock?

The answer is virtually none. A dog with those qualifications isn't going to get dumped in a shelter - it's way too valuable at doing its job.

Working dogs aren't just a breed, they're a combination of genetics of the body form, the instincts, the exposure, the training, the experience all rolled together. Just like you wouldn't want to hire a farm hand out of the city who has never seen an animal you would not want a random shelter dog nor even one that is the 'right' breed because it's almost guaranteed it doesn't have the other qualifications.

Random dogs are a liability. Real working dogs are valuable partners and critical on the homestead and farm.

Ravenlost · #38 02/25/13, 12:49 AM

Well dang, guess our farm is going to ruin then.

Ravenlost · #39 02/25/13, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terri46355

What breed of dog do you think would be the best homestead dog that is loose all the time outdoors?

We have a Labrador Retriever who keeps the wild critters away and stays close to the yard. He barks when people drive up and doesn't bother cats, chickens, or other pets. We would like to get him a partner and were wondering if there might be another breed/mix that is good at this type of job.

To answer the OP's question...a mutt from the shelter would be a good choice, although I would recommend getting a pup or one the shelter knows is good with cats. Pups can easily be taught to leave cats, chickens, etc. alone. I would suggest avoiding a Vizsla or Malamute mix. Those are the two we had trouble with around the cats.

Waterwheel Farm · #40 02/25/13, 12:58 AM

I thought the OP just asked a question something like "I have this Lab that stays out in the yard on the homestead and kinda watches things. What would be a good breed/mix as a buddy for it that can stay outside most of the time?"

I didn't see where they needed a pack of bear dogs, or dogs specialized in targeting long-range coyote ops, or mountain survival tactics...but maybe I misread it. When I coon hunted I had top-notch, pure blood, very expensive bluetick hounds, and sometimes Walkers. Same for rabbits, top dollar beagles that cost a lot and worth every penny for what they did. Been down the high dollar working-dog path.

Now I'm happy with my free,couple of reject mutts that lay by my feet on the front porch. That's what makes me happy.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not pureblooded either.