Who Are The Real Owners?

I think I am worthy and shouldn't have to pay any taxes. (If you can't tell this is tongue in cheek then I'll have to post a picture). I don't know about the rest of you though.

Mike

I gladly pay my taxes....it's a privelege to have land of my own and I'm grateful every day not to be a sharecropper (yet!) like my ancestors had to become after the War Between the States. I'll bet they would rather have paid taxes than to have no property at all. Every time I hear a siren I think, "That's my taxes going to a good use". Paved roads and parks also make me happy. Some of my ancestors were Native American, so I feel like my acreage makes up for an injustice several hundred years ago (I even named my girls after Indian tribes to pay homage for them losing their lands).

Federal and State taxes are not the answer at all. Community taxes, where the people decide what the tax will provide for them, why should your money be used on the other side of the nation to add trees along a streetscape that you will never see? If your community wants roads then your local tax dollars pay for them. Your community has State and Federal Representatives and Congressmen, then the community decides what they should earn and what perks they might have and tax themselves accordingly, instead of the career politicians deciding when to give themselves a raise. Seems to me, these so-called representatives of the people, make a whole lot more money than the constituents that put them in office. A slap in the face I would say.

Community support is how this nation was built. The whole thing about the Federal Government needing to provide financial support for state and local projects is a perversion of FDR’s programs setup to bring the Nation out of the Great Depression. It use to be that if a community needed a school built, the members of that community would come together to get it done, labor would be donated, materials could be obtained from local businesses or suppliers at a reasonable cost. Now you need a “Grant” to do anything, we must subsidize our selves with our own money. Why do governmental employees pay income taxes? We will pay you $100 today but take back $25 in taxes, which will be part of your pay tomorrow, now does that make sense?

Yes, some money needs to go to the State and Federal Governments, but without the bureaucratic squander that is present, it would not need to be nearly as much, and that would be something that your local tax would pay forward. So, instead of the government cutting our local programs in order to maintain their income “We the People” could cut their outrageous wages in order to keep our needed programs.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

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For the first one hundred years or so, our nation was lead by surveyors and we did very well, and then the lawyers took over, now look where we are. Don’t believe me take a look at Mt Rushmore, three Surveyors, and some other guy. (For you Lawyers that’s: Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln)

I think we got off track here a little bit, the point I was trying to make, who really owns the land? If you make your yearly payments you can live on it otherwise it will be taken away from you, so, do you really own it?
Let's say the sheriff shows up at your place and says, I have an order here from the tax assessor/collector to pick up your garden rake because you have failed to pay the taxes on it, you say but I bought and paid for that rake and it is mine and I don't think its fair to pay taxes on it, do you collect garden rake taxes from everybody who uses public services? Everybody doesn't own a garden rake, says the Sheriff, only garden rake owners pays this tax and the more rakes you own the more taxes you pay. What if we taxed shoes, everybody owns shoes, wouldn't this make more sense and be fairer or what if we say everybody is a consumer, what if we put a tax on all consumer goods and everybody who bought something would pay tax, now this seems like a square deal to me.

All property is owned by someone or some company or the government. Two out of the three owners pay property taxes--any renters are paying property taxes indirectly through their rent. I think most renters don't *get* this, which is why they vote for every tax increase possible (then whine when their rents go up).

Even with a national VAT or similar there will still be people trying to get around paying it by only buying from say, garage sales. Is this fair? Why are people essentially punished for being successful by paying more in taxes? Why are people rewarded for living below whatever "poverty" level is established by the government? How come people don't mind when THEIR wages go up but don't like it when other prices go up, and why don't they plan better for retirement?

Look at this study by the Heritage Foundation:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

Sorry, but to me if you own a house, have a phone, cable TV, etc., you are NOT poor.

Yep, quite fair. The sales taxes on used goods have already been paid in full by the original buyer. It wouldnt be fair to tax them twice although some states tax cars everytime the title is transfered. Think lot of them call it a "use" tax.

Also dont VAT taxes not only grab end buyers wallet but also at every level of production and distribution? Thus if I bought raw steel and fabricated my own car, I'd pay far less tax than somebody buying a new car from a dealer. Same somebody buying grains, meat, and produce and cooking their own meal would pay less tax than somebody going out to eat at a restaurant.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

Amen. My daughter graduated high school yesterday. A product of a decent upbringing and the public shcool system. My son is following in giant steps in his own way. I do not complain of my property taxes going to support the community or the school district. I consider us lucky to be able to pay taxes and have a voice. We have a great school system - a rarity. If I had no children I would be just as proud to pay for the education of my neighbor's children. Education is the key to a successful democracy- if you want anything else, then keep the peasants dumb. But to the question do I own the land I live on? No. I have never really understood the idea of ownership. I do not think it is completely mine. I bought it to manage the stewardship. It is criminal, imo, to improperly manage land, whether one's taxes are paid or not. I honestly believe that. Taxes are only what keeps it in my stewardship.

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Tiny Forest ~ my tiny blog

"Education is the key to a successful democracy"

Ahem... We are a REPUBLIC not a democracy. Our founding fathers, abhorred democracies and purposefully created a republic. A democracy is ruled by the whim of the people.

Time will tell how long are nation remains a republic or becomes the democracy as some persist in describing it. We are more likely to become a dictatorship than anything. That is what happened to Rome.

Our Republic was set up with "balances of power". The judicial, legislative and executive branches. These branches of the government were designed to protect us from government. Today, they do not follow the rules. Our constitution which held them in check is null and void (since Lincoln destroyed it in his war).

Our Supreme Court rights law which is supposed to be the Legislature's duty. The Executive branch ignores the Constitution, and the Legislative/Judicial branches look the other way. The Legislative create laws contrary to the Constitution.

Our country once was much "fairer" but the structure designed to protect us failed. We are a much "weaker" people than our founding fathers. They would not sit around and complain about our current governmental situation. They would be up in arms. Literally.

As far as paying for public "education"... How can it be called such? It is only a propaganda tool to provide more illiterate and immoral people who will follow orders without thinking for themselves. I for one will have no part of it. I will see to it that my children will have a classical education and my wife and I will oversee/do the teaching.

And _this_ was my point in my message above - it will be far cheaper to raise corn & soybeans in South America, sell them to feed it to cattle there, sell the cattle to the butcher making box beef, sell the box beef to a patty making company, sell the patties to a processed food maker which also buys boxes & labels that have gone through the same process in SA:

Then load it up in containers & sell it to the USA consumer _one time_ and get hit with the VAT tax _once_.

Domestic production would have the VAT tax added what, 12 times over? There would be more TAXES paid on a USA hamberger than what the SA hamburger would cost total!!!!!!!!

So, now, what? Oh, we make exeptions..... More VAT on the the SA burger? No, that wouldn't fly in the international world order. So, we have to start adjusting the internal VAT on the production of hamburgers.....

And BINGO we have the same endless paperwork, hassles, loopholes, cheaters, and burocrocies as we have right now!!!!!

SeewhatImean?

The national sales tax idea is just silly - certainly no better than what we have now.

I will agree, the current deal is a mess & not fair.

But, a VAT would be a mess and not be fair either.

And politico's are real good at _adding_ taxes to those already here, not substituting one for the other. I think you'd find several generations wouls still be paying property taxes along with a new VAT tax.

I think it's silly and want no part of it.

But that is just IMHO, and I enjoy the discussion & comments & enjoy reading those who think otherwise - sometimes this print media comes out cold & brash; I just want to have fun discussing & sharing, and value everyone else's opinion at least as much as mine on this. Hope you all just read my words & value them for what you paid for them.

--->Paul

if you get your land patent, it will exempt you from all Re tax on said land.

its a complicated task but most any land owner can get a patent on their property. Most do not, because it prevents liens from being put against it, and that makes borrowing money difficult...
but if you dont want/have a mortgage, get a land patent and stop paying the taxes on your land.

Fordy, I'm not defending the Davidians, I am simple PO'ed about what the GOVERMENT did there, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO TANKS, and the lies the ATF said, it was wrong.

Some movies you should watch:
Waco: the big lie(the famous Flame thrower on a tank retriver)
Waco: Rules of Engagement

Here is a solution to all our problems, a Flat Tax! Remember Ross Perot with his charts. :haha:

...............................................Nei ther , was it MY intention to start a heated discourse in reference to the Davidians. MY post was way TOO strong, but I have read several threads (Not on this website) that pretend that Koresh was some kind of Martyr. He, was a POS and a Coward, and nothing More. Some folks have tried to resurrect(sp) him into something that he NEVER WAS. All the Adults at that compound were aware of the possibility that they might lose their lives. THe children, of course , weren't. It is beyond ME how any Adult can sacrifice their child ...or any child....for that matter in such a Totally Worthless cause. The children were the only thing that had ANY value in that compound. The buildings and the FOOLS that resided there probably got what any Fool deserves for not surrendering and facing the music like an adult is supposed to do..........fordy....

The whole concept of land ownership is fleeting.We are here for a century at most,the land is forever.We dont own it,we pay for the priveledge to rent it while we are here.If lucky,maybe your ancestors will inherite it,and pay a bit less,but own it?nope,not how it works.
BooBoo

Nos Moriamur Salute

In Australia, your own corpse becomes property of the state upon your death, so they can use you for organ donations, and family can't refuse an autopsy

I don't know anyone who doesnt fault the fbi for that fiassco

I disagree....:haha:
Only if they gave Koresh Airtime on a Radio station to Reveal the book of Revelations in the Bible, he would have let the childern go! but I think they DID play his tape on a AM station that could barely be heard, and you say the only valuble thing was the children? if it was, why didn't they just Raid the house instead of being chickens and call in the
tanks, I'm not outraged by Koresh, tho I do belive God Gave them over to the vengence of the goverments of the world, Trial by Fire.

even that, Let's say it was a KKK group, but there was no evidence of Violence, just SUPECTING there was ILLEGAL activity going on, hell they could have been NAZI'S, that IS NOT MY POINT, Running TANKS IN AGAINST A GROUP OF PEOPLE IS JUST WRONG, it would be different if the "Compound" had Missle turrets and snipers ready to shoot at the ATF, the FACT THAT TANKS WERE USED, just nerves me, if they can do that to them, what could they do to us?

Some people do not understand the concept of democracy so here is a working definition:
"Democracy - noun - Government by popular representation; a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but is indirectly exercised through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed; a constitutional representative government; a republic." (my emphasis)

I'm not going to get into a public education debate. It has worked for us, as it has worked for millions upon millions of children. It doesn't work for everyone- nothing does- but it is very popular to hold up the nonrepresentative failures as a justification that it doesn't work at all. It is, by itself, unable to raise a child properly, but it does work and it works very well for the number of children learning.

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Tiny Forest ~ my tiny blog

"Our constitution which held them in check is null and void (since Lincoln destroyed it in his war). "

What!!! That was NOT LINCOLN'S WAR!!! The North and South were divided and slavery I can imagine was very important back then.

How did Lincoln "destroy" the constitution?

If the North and South divided into two nations, Texas would be a Mexican state, the southeast would be their own country(probably like spain) and the north would be Canadian, who knows what the west would be!:haha:

Koresh & his followers chose their path, and they chose to become myrters. They did what they had to to get the outcome they wanted.

Some kids wish to kill themselves, and take on the police to get shot as a concense choice - and some lunkheads blame the police for that too.

The FBI may have done a lot of things wrong, and have a lot to learn. But the outcome of that confrentation was pre-determaned by Koresh - he wanted it to end the way it did, and if not on that day, would have continued until that outcome happened.

It is difficult to balance the needs of a society & the needs of an individual. Both sides get stomped on from time to time - that's how it is. Fault & blame enough to go around most of the time.

Koresh was so clearly outside the lines of what is accepted for both individuals & a society, the 'fault' of his actions clearly rest on his shoulders and his alone.

--->Paul