Anti-, problems with, etc GMO foods

Oh i know it haha, but at least I learned me something

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The thing about labelling, is that if you label food as "may contain gmo", you are immediately IMPLYING it is less healthy, that there is something to worry about in it. The organic food industry has been doing this for years. It is called marketing. Slapping a label on "organic" produce, implies that it is purer, better somehow. Well, a label is a piece of paper. I know enough about how the "organic" system works, that just because it has a label, it does not mean it is even "organic". But the implication is made. If consumers choose to buy based on implications, that is plain sad.

As far as the cost of labelling, where do these costs get passed on to? ALWAYS the farmer. And for what???

Farmers markets and private farms are exempt from having to label their products. Direct sales from growers to consumer are covered by "caveat emptor", buyer beware.

Martin

Here's something that a lot of people don't realize. The very noisy "country of origin" faction, which I somewhat supported, has resulted in totally ridiculous labels and added cost. I used to love coon hunting where I could pass through several old orchards. I'd stuff my pockets with apples and eat one on the spot and a few later. Can't do that blindly with store apples. Now each one has an inedible plastic label just to tell me that it was produced in the USA!

Martin

I realize we have 2 very different viewpoints on the issue of gmo, organic, etc.

I understand we won't agree, but its good to just understand the other side.

I like the small close to home farmers markets, and so forth, on that we -can- agree, they are a good thing. Shopping local, and all that.

I most certainly want to keep our power to choose what we can buy, and keep the variety of cheap as well as specialty food sources.

Labeling food is a good thing, we have lots of labels on most all food products everywhere, about the only that don't any more are the small farmers market sized operations - as I understand things?

So, I just honestly do not understand the repeated requests to "label our foods, its simple".

Food is already heavily labeled. What more does the other side want? We can a,ready pick what we want from the current set of labels. People already know what they are getting?

Don't understand, it must seem simple and obvious to the other side, but does not compute to me.

Could the point of labeling more, and forcing small garden growers to add more labels, more requirements, be explained as to what this gains anyone? Obviously in simple words for a dummy like me.

Paul

The only purpose I could see in labeling would be to educate people who still do not know what GMO is. There is ZERO point otherwise-you cannot trust that even 100% organic means no GMO. There is no choice - often even in growing your own. We live in a fallen world. It will take generations to fix what we have destroyed. The only hope we have to is wake people up -detox their brains and bodies, show them there is more to life than a big screen tv and food that passes through two windows before it gets to their children's mouths and pray that enough people have the desire to make a difference.

A label on a food like product does not ensure it is safe. Processed organic, GMO free junk is still crap food-it just costs more.

See the call for labels as a starting point if you do not understand where anti-GMO folks are coming from. Liken it to posters of dead babies by protesters at abortion clinics. It's a wake up call-yet many will still ignore it.

Then help me; if food is already heavily labeled-what difference does "GMO soy lecticin" make over "soy lecticin"? Don't try with the "cost" of printing labels. You know as well as I do that manufactures are constantly changing labels. "New and Improved, 25% More, Now Made with Whole Grains" ... that argument is invalid.

I'll help you. It means that you would have 2 products for the same thing on the shelf. One would be labeled "GMO soy" and one "Non GMO soy". Unless they were almost identical in price, only one would move.

Martin

Oh no ! You mean someone would exercise freedom with their money ? The shame in that ! We must continue to fool the masses into buying the GMO soy !! Now can you tell me why ?

I have news for you. The masses aren't fooled. The masses know that if they are not able to physically handle eating any soy product, they will know if there is soy in the product because it must be so stated on the label. To date, they have found no other reason to avoid buying it than it being an allergen to those genetically unable to consume it.

For that matter, since you use a picture of a Caucasian to represent you, it's not a natural food for your genetic makeup. If you fear the consequences of consuming something which you think will cause an adverse effect on your body, don't buy it. Just don't feel that it's your place to insist that everyone else must avoid it merely because you do.

Martin

Labeling just sounds so easy, doesn't it? But the added cost of labeling for GMO status doesn't come from the printing on the label itself, the cost comes from all the extra processes and procedures that would have to be put in place to make the label accurate. When the grain truck pulls up to the elevator to unload, are they just gonna take the driver's word for it that the grain came from a non-GMO field, and also that the combine used to harvest the grain was cleaned out thoroughly between harvesting GMO and non-GMO? No, of course not! So there is inspections and certifications and all kinds of extra hoops to jump thru just to get one truckload of grain unloaded and get back to the field. Now think about all the extra processing, documenting, segregated facilities and so forth that would have to be put in place at ALL levels of food handling and processing to keep GMO and non-GMO separate.

If they can figure out how to document and label all the food with its GMO status without doubling the price, wonderful, why not. But I don't think it's possible.

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We do that here constantly, but many ignore the actual DATA and keep spreading the same old misinformation.

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Everything you said has been repeated here countless times, and they just don't seem to get that "labeling" is FAR more than words

It's a perfect example of what I posted above

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Thanks, P. I often just let your messages be on this topic, as we are so very very far apart, but here I think I can undetrstand much of what you are saying.

People want cheap food and easy life. That might not be the best path for them. Is that sorta what you are saying?

I think I got that portion of your message, and more or less agree with that part of it?

The labels on the food will cost money, the issue would be enforcing the labels... Most grain in this country flows into one big stream so nearly all grain would be 'may contain GMO products'. I don't see where that really helps anyone, just have to pay for a new label on everything.

It would appear your wish for labels is so you can punish GMO foods? It is not to learn or know anything new, it is just a form of punishment somehow?

Don't mean to put words in your mouth, but how I read your message?

--->Paul

Here in Quebec there is one farm/Tofu company that i know of (Unisoya) that packages it's tofu labeled NON GMO Soya. It is 454 grams or 16 oz for $1.99 which is the average price here.

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Biblical Argument for the Acceptance of Homosexuality

No Paul - I don't want to punish a food like product.

Martin - we do not consume soy, GMO, organic, non organic or otherwise. It is not fit for human consumption and is even more dangerous considering how prolific it is in the SAD. White girl or not, soy doesn't need to be eaten by humans. It is a minconception that Asian people eat tons of soy and that's why they are healthy. Fermented soy eaten as a condiment is VERY different than what you see in this country.

But I miss how that has anything to do with people choosing to buy non GMO soy over soy if stated on the label. In other words, what's wrong with people making choices with their dollars?

Well, then I go back to not understanding at all. Ah well. I'll keep trying.

There is nothing at all wrong with people buying non GMO soy. They have that option.

As a grower, I have the option of growing soybeans, or non GMO soybeans, or organic soybeans, or food-specialty types of soybeans (typically non GMO or organic).

I would get regular price and deliver to any of the elevators within a mile or 5 around me. For 'soybeans' of any type, all mixed together.

Or I could get small to larger premium prices for the different types of special beans. I would tend to get smaller yields for the different specialty beans, typically. And would have to deliver those beans 25 miles to a special elevator, only when they wanted me to bring them.

But I have those choices. In my grainery right now is 150 bu or so of beans from back before I grew gmo soybeans, I could call the special elevator far away and find a delivery date they'd want them, and probably get 30 cents or so bonus for them.

And buyers of soybeans can buy the type of soybeans they want. Right now. Including individuals like you.

Any of the above types of soybeans. Including non GMO beans just as you mention.

So, again, I do not understand what yet another label is going to do for anyone?

We already have those options.

Paul

Sixty one countries now have GMO labeling. Why is it such an issue here? If GMO's are so great, the companies should be proud of their product.

But the behavior of these companies (with bad reputations ) makes me and many others suspicious.

If you are of the opinion that soy is not an edible food item in any form, why is that the one which you demonstrated your most concern about in this thread? It should not be any of your concern what I buy based merely on your dislike for a product. I happen to like lutefisk and do not care how many others may think that it is not edible. Two weeks ago I bought a package of alligator nuggets and no doubt 99% of the HT members wouldn't even think of eating 'gator. It's only my business as a consumer, I don't have to care what others like or dislike. I WOULD care if someone tried to charge me extra for organic lutefisk or alligator!

Martin

As a farmer who has grown several different crops under IP programs( IP means Identity Preserved), I will just point out a few things that happen when the process is followed to ensure purity of an end product, from the seed to the processed product. And then those that say these steps ad no extra costs can feel free to chime in and debate if they wish. Especially assuming by some of their posts, that they are as far removed from farming as their posts would indicate.

So when I choose to grow an IP crop to grow, lets say gm free canola for easy figuring, shall we? I first must buy the seed specified. This seed has to be pure, so it has to be grown in complete isolation from other canola crops to ensure purity. Which is a cost because it is hard to find these fields in the heart of the canola belt.

I then seed the seed on my land. The contracting company needs legal land descriptions of the locations of the crop. They need gps coordinates to ensure accurate location. They the send a scout out, several times a year to check to see I am following protocol.

Often, a 5 metre isolation strip must be mowed, disked or somehow taken care of for the year, so the farmer loses up to 4 acres of production on each quarter of land he seeds to IP crops.

Everything done on that field must be recorded. Before seeding, the drill has to be spotless, and extra hour or two of work for the farmer.

At harvest time, the crop must be stored separately and also have gps coordinates, and bin labels, and confetti mixed into the grain. Bins are stinking expensive, and so to have enough extra to avoid mixing various classes of crop is super expensive. The swather, combine, cart, trucks, augers, and bins MUST be immaculately clean, which does not simply happen ny just staring at these items, somebody has got to get dirty, and clean these all thoroughly.

When the grain is shipped, it must be specified to the trucker, and he must arrive with super clean trailers. The loading auger must be spotless. The farmer must wait to deliver, until such a time that the shipping point is accepting the IP crop in question. Waiting 4 months with grain in your bins is not free in the least. IP crops often have a two week window maybe four times a year in which deliveries can be arranged to keep the plant pure, ensure enough product is shipped to make it worthwhile for the processing company.

As you can see, the costs are many, the piffling around is tremendous. So why do I grow IP crops then? Because the company takes into account the extra labour for growing and harvesting these crops, and pay a premium to the farmer. The consumer pays extra for "peace of mind" of having a pure product. Sometimes the premium is worth the extra effort, sometimes not.

The bottom line, is that the consumer had better be ready to step up and pay for the extra hassle from seedstock production, to the cleaning of the grain legs at the processing plant. All so the product can be certified as IP.

Imagine now, if gm labelling were in place? The extra cost would be insane to the consumer.

All for a piece of paper. A piece of paper that IMPLIES something is wrong with gm crops, through the process of bringing it to the consumers attention. You bet there is a cost.

They also can't be used for any other crops during the process.

It's a shame to have $300,000 worth of equipment ( and that's just the combine) sitting idle during prime harvest times

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