running out of hot water
 

i have a 50 gallon electric hot water heater and with 1 woman and 2 teen girls living with me seems like I always get a warm shower at best.....:awh: so my question is I have been looking at a propane tankless water heater and would like to know the pros and cons.....the propane company praises them and would put one in for about 2000 dollars....but I think they are a little bias.....any input will be appreciated.....propane here is 2.49 a gallon....thanks cojax

First, you sure the electric water heater is working right ?

Sounds a lot like the lower element burned out, leaving you with 1/2 a tank of hot water. This is very common, especially if you have hard water. Lime chips precipitate out of the water, bury the lower element, and it then fails as not enough water around it to keep it cool enough.

On propane, I planed to replace my propane tank heater with a tankless model, but after talking to my neighbor, who has run the QC section of the local American Water Heater plant for years, decided to go back with a cheaper tank model.

He said they had tested them extensively, and there was virtually NO difference in propane use......the standing pilot on the tank models uses more gas for that, but since it keeps the water at a higher temp, it uses less gas to bring the water up to HOT, versus a tankless that has to start with colder water.

He said the only advantage to a tankless was less footprint if space is an issue.....and the computer controls and sensors in the tankless are way more trouble/cost if you do have a problem with them. Tank models are pretty much dead simple....they work until the tank leaks.

their main weakness is the heat exchanger has small openings, thats how it heats the water quickly but if you have hard water they plug unless you descale them often. if you have good water they are great. I thought about putting one in when my old tank one went out but they all need voltage and I do like a hot shower when the power is out.

My father has a NG tankless and it's an endless supply of hot water...he loves it, it's more efficient, and its reliable. Anyone who tells you keeping a tank full of water hot is as efficient as heating it on demand probably sells water heaters that are tank style. A tankless uses zero energy unless its being used (a tiny amount of electric for the control panel).

Yeah....that's the conventional thinking.....and no doubt promoted by companies that sell tankless models.

But pardon me if I take the word of a guy that has actually set them up in a lab condition and says different.....and whose company sells both.

What do the control panels cost if you get a electric spike and it burns out ? :D

thanks for the input guys.....we are on county water and it seems to be pretty good water. The electric hot water heater is about 4 years old and seems to be working fine....it to has a computer controlled module on it that tells you if something is wrong with it....the problem seems to be rush hour in the morning trying to get everyone showered and out the door within 1.5 hours......I like a hot shower not a warm shower and it seems like it just cant keep up in that short of time.....any ideas thanks cojax

Have you tried turning up the thermostat? Maybe the wife bumped it when she was doing laundry?

What kind of furnace do you have? Indirect water heaters off a good boiler are incredibly efficient.

I have a hot air propane furnace and the hot water heater is in the basement in the utility room with the furnace

Won't work then. Indirect only works if you have baseboard hydronic I believe.

Hi,
Just from an energy cost point of view --

If you use this calculator: http://www.builditsolar.com/Referenc...uelCompare.htm

It shows that $2.49 propane running and 85% efficient tankless is equal in cost to 10.5 cents per KWH electricity running a 95% efficient electric water heater.

So, if your electric bill says you are paying 10.5 cents per KWH or less, the propane tankless will not save you any money.

We had a tankless, and I liked it.
One thing to consider is that if two people are showering at once, then you have to get a tankless sized for that kind of flow.
Ours was a Takagi Jr, and would only do one shower, but was fine for that.

I don't get the standing pilot argument in that I don't think any of the new gas tanks use standing pilots -- they are very wasteful. The problem with regular gas tank heaters is that they have a flue that runs right up through the middle of the tank so the burner gasses can heat the tank, but that same flue thermosyphons air when the burner is not on, and this results in a lot of standby losses. The numbers I've seen show about 65% efficiency for gas tank heaters, and 85% for gas tankless.

Gary

Have you tried taking your shower first? I'd try that. :)

First question - what temperature is that tank set? Ours is at 165. Setting thermostats lower effectively reduces the amount of tempered water available in the shower.

If the temp is set high and there still isn't enough, I'd just put in a second 50 gal electric.

Back in 2006, I put a tankless propane hot water heater in the house because the house was too small for a hot water tank. We actually ran it off the 20lb tanks from Walmart. One tank would last about a month with two adults, two kids and one baby. The washing machine was only connected to the cold water, but the hot water ran to the bathtub/shower, bathroom sink, and kitchen sink.

I really enjoyed being able to turn around in my bathroom (now that the tank was gone), but my favorite part was being able to dial in the perfect temperature for the perfect shower. 115F was a bit warm at first, but once ya got used to it, was just wonderful:gaptooth::nanner:

Not going to argue with you, father had both...being a civil engineer he did the math, the tankless saves him money. No lab test, real world. And to my knowledge in 5 years zero problems. I will ask him though.

We have a tankless hot water heater at our homestead and LOVE it. We mounted it in the bathroom where you can reach out of the shower and adjust the heat to your liking. I like a really hot shower, DH likes it a little cooler. We run it off of a 20 pound LP tank that is stored under the sink in the cabinet and were impressed by how long that tank lasts for just the two of us.

Only down side that we have noticed is that the water pressure isn't as high as with a regular heater. I doubt if we will ever go back to a regular tank style heater.

Why would anyone need a hot water heater if your water is already hot why heat it ??

Nobody has mentioned about incoming water temp and where the water heater is located...in the winter they do have to work harder.

There's your sign.:)

You think they live in there now, just wait until you have endless hot water.

Very true, you will be kicked down a notch or two on the ole totem pole and showers will be never!

Take your shower before you go to bed.

Get a tankless heater. We've gone a gas fueled one in the main house and an electric one in my little office across the street.

LOVE the tankless.

I would say it all depends on how much hot water you use, One person rarely using hot water would probably save money on a tankless, if you run it constanstly "testing" it would probably use more propane, so i guess it depends on how much hot water you would use.

FYI: from all the research i have done I would never do an electric on demand.

I installed them (and sold them) for years. If you get a good one with no mechanical problems you will love it beyond measure. If and when it gives you problems hold on to your wallet. Do your research on brands and make dang sure you buy it from someone that can fix it.

You can thank me later. Been there done that.

And on a side note mines got a tank.

Sounds like you need to implement some behavior modification. I'm only guessing here but with two teenage girls in the house I'm betting that your shampoo, conditioner, body wash, etc use has gone up in the last few years. Maybe sitting them down and explaining what a $2000 hit to the budget would do as opposed to what that same $2000 dollars might do for them if they're just willing to take a 15 minute shower instead of a 20 minute one.

1 wife, 2 daughters... there ain't that much hot water available ANYwhere!!!

Here is what I have: Eccotemp FVI-12-LP High Capacity Propane Tankless Water Heater. I got it on Amazon for around 270.00 it took me about an hour to hook up.

I love it and I can take as long a shower as I want.

Does no one else take 5 min showers?

Put a gate valve on the output side of your water heater. When the girls take there shower shut the gate valve half way. They will not get as much hot water, saving some for you.

akaRach- not teen girls.

i would still suggest checking lower heat element on water heater. i installed a ondemand lp water heater in 07. love it absoluty no problem. i have a 250 gal tank fill once/yr. run water heater stove top burners and bbq grill.(spring n summer grill gets lots of use.) running 2 bath off on demand n whirlpool. whirlpool get used a lot

You can fix your problem with no money, a better schedule of showers, and better boundaries with your girls, who need to remember they are not the only people in the house who need hot water! I have 2 teen girls, 1 teen boy, and 2 tween boys. I have one teen girl who likes LONG showers. Because she will not heed my words about consideration, guess who takes a shower last? A decent schedule of morning and night showers, a timer, and talks about consideration for others who live in the home are all you really need. No money outlay required. Good luck!

Cindyc. (fellow parent of teens who is in the trenches with you!) =0)

We have had a tankless for 5 or so years. It fires with 2 d-cell batteries wich last about a year, so no electric hooked up at all. We absolutely love it!! We did the math and it does save us money. A nice benafit is when my youngest son who will stay in the shower forever if given a chance has benn in too long, just the flip of one switch and it shuts off the heat without shutting off the water. It only took 2 or 3 times of doing that before he started taking MUCH shorter showers.;)

I grew up with in a home with 3 boys, 2 girls, a mom and dad and one hot water heater. If you ran the hot water out, you were in trouble :)

Think I agree with the poster earlier who suggested a second hot water tank as the easiest and cheapest solution. It's a pretty easy DIY job that costs only a few hundred dollars.

I've got a heater in the furnace myself, so I've technically got unlimited hot water. That means lots of oil gets burned, and I can wait for hours while folk take long leisurely showers. Don't know that I consider that a success or improvement. Though flipping the power switch off on the furnace has sometimes helped move things along.

If you want a hot shower, go first! LOL I would check the lower thermostat!

the step kids used to take thirty minute showers when they first moved in, now after 10 minutes I turn the valve off to the heater so the shower is pure cold. surprisingly what used to take a half hour now takes less than 10 minutes. two of us shower at night and two of us shower in the morning and everybody has hot water.

we have the same problem its the 2 teen girls living with me thats makes the water run cold. I now do the 5 minute shower for the girls, they can get wet wash and shave the legs then another 5 mins to wash off the suds .

All tank type water heaters have a dip tube to ensure that cold water goes to the bottom of the tank and the hot comes off the top. If the tube breaks or cracks you only get 1/2-1/2 a tank before the incoming cold mixes and cools it down. To check it you have to pull the cold nipple from the tank and remove it. The only replacements I ever saw came from the tank distributor and were sold to plumbing shops. It isn't common but it happens. I would run a bucket of cold water in the shower and see how long it takes to fill it. If you fill a gallon bucket in less than 1 minute you should replace the shower head and put in a flow restrictor. You can remove it when the teenagers move out.
An LP water heater will give you more usuable water because of the first hour recovery. it makes hot water faster than an elec does so if it heats 35 gallons per hour and the elec 20 gph, a 40 gallon lp wh would give you 75 gallons of hot water, a 50, 85 gallons compared to the 50 gal elec @ 70 gph.
An instatanious wh will give you all the hot water you want, as others have mentioned you have to pay for that heat. IMO, the electronics on the boards have gotten a lot better, you do in most cases need to run a larger vent line and nat gas line due to btu increase. Rennai is a great brand, most of the good ones will compensate for flows to maintain temperature. Europe has used these for decades, but they have also learned to do wash when thy are not showering.

thanks for the input everyone....i got to looking at my water heater and it is about 5 years old. when i bought it i went with 50 gal and lifetime warranty. i did look at cpu module on it and it has a swlf diagnostic system that light up on it if anything is wrong......upper element, lower element , sensors, and a reset switch.i do believe that its in good working order. I did notice the temp was set at the rec. factory setting of 125...so i bumped it up a little to see if that would help. The girls had no school today so i didnt find out anything......but i did have a hot shower....will let you know if it works.....thanks to all cojax

First you should shower first if you need a morning shower and the one taking the longest showers last. Put them on timers of 10 minutes, I take 5 minute showers and I can't imagine just standing there with water going over me after I am clean? I take my nice hot showers in the evening after the days work is done to go to bed, nice and clean... Perhaps you would enjoy evening showers? Let them take the morning ones if you want to change the schedule? My Brother in Law got a tankless water heater, cost him about $2,000. They have to run that water to engage it, it is not magic....they use a lot more water they told me since they got it. My sister in law does not like it and wishes they had a regular cheap water heater. Turning it up will help and cutting the other shower times should eliminate your problem.