I Can't Se This Having Much Feed Value?

Pony · #21 01/10/13, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticow

MOST black molds will not hurt cattle or even goats. I have, at times fed BLACK hay and NEVER had any come up sick. Given the choice, I'd take perect bright green hay, but if you grow your own and feed it sooner or later you WILL have some go south onyou and if it's all you have you will feed it or sell the stock. Fact of life... and I did say IF it ain't full of AFLATOXIN.

BTW: Do you raise goats?

rambler · #22 01/10/13, 10:34 PM

Aflotoxin was a big problem this year in the drought areas.

It is so hard to test for - the test is accurate, but since it is measured in parts per billion, a few kernals of corn in a smaple make a _huge_ difference, if you catch those kernals you get ratings of 1000, if you don't catch those couple kernals in the sample of the whole truckload, you get ratings of under 10....

Here is a pretty good explination and pictures of aflotoxin from Iowa Extension, along with a chart of what levels are safe for some livestock. (Under 20 ppb is good; over 300 ppb is bad for most critters....)

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pub...ons/PM1800.pdf

If this was drought stressed corn, I would still worry about the nitrates more than the aflotoxin possibilities, nitrates settle in the stalk and create problems in ultra dry years.

Good to be watching out for this stuff. We likely are getting a blending of good and bad corn for our processed feeds this year, that is how they use up the poorer corn, blend it down to acceptable levels. Happened back 4-5 years ago, that year the problem area was a little farther east than it is this past year.

--->Paul

CaliannG · #23 01/10/13, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

If this was drought stressed corn, I would still worry about the nitrates more than the aflotoxin possibilities, nitrates settle in the stalk and create problems in ultra dry years.

Good to be watching out for this stuff. We likely are getting a blending of good and bad corn for our processed feeds this year, that is how they use up the poorer corn, blend it down to acceptable levels. Happened back 4-5 years ago, that year the problem area was a little farther east than it is this past year.

--->Paul

One of the many reasons that I am motivated to doing the fodder. Sowing seed is more expensive, yes, but after foddering, it comes out as far less expensive, and sowing grains are not moldy, as molds inhibit germination.

Aflatoxins and Nitrates are a big worry. I don't know anyone around here who would even feed their cattle black-stalked hay unless they tested the bejeebers out of it first for both. Cow-calf pairs are not cheap to replace.

coolrunnin · #24 01/11/13, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

One of the many reasons that I am motivated to doing the fodder. Sowing seed is more expensive, yes, but after foddering, it comes out as far less expensive, and sowing grains are not moldy, as molds inhibit germination.

Aflatoxins and Nitrates are a big worry. I don't know anyone around here who would even feed their cattle black-stalked hay unless they tested the bejeebers out of it first for both. Cow-calf pairs are not cheap to replace.

Fodder is what they are talking about as well as hay fodder is any roughage fed to animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fodder

CaliannG · #25 01/11/13, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolrunnin

Fodder is what they are talking about as well as hay fodder is any roughage fed to animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fodder

My apologies. I should have been more explicit. I meant, specifically, that I am moving to a Fodder System, specifically used to sprout a certain type of fodder. Paul knew what I meant, but I should have been more detailed so that everyone else would know as well.

arcticow · #26 01/11/13, 05:56 PM

Black molds DO not equal aflatoxin, OF COURSE I would test the hay for nitrates, and yes, I have raised goats, sheep and dairy cattle as well as beef stock. FOR YEARS. As in MORE than a hundred head, COMMERCIALLY. NOT in confinement. I am extremely aware of the other things that can be fed besides hay. Right now, in N. TX they all run basically the same price. In AK at times I fed brush fodder and even aspen shavings soaked. Wasn't doing any of this as a hobby. I know exactly what pairs are bringing, for the few folk here who still have 'em to sell. There comes a point when, if this is your livelyhood, writing off overpriced feed, when you find it, won't make any difference.

Pony · #27 01/11/13, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticow

Black molds DO not equal aflatoxin, OF COURSE I would test the hay for nitrates, and yes, I have raised goats, sheep and dairy cattle as well as beef stock. FOR YEARS. As in MORE than a hundred head, COMMERCIALLY. NOT in confinement. I am extremely aware of the other things that can be fed besides hay. Right now, in N. TX they all run basically the same price. In AK at times I fed brush fodder and even aspen shavings soaked. Wasn't doing any of this as a hobby. I know exactly what pairs are bringing, for the few folk here who still have 'em to sell. There comes a point when, if this is your livelyhood, writing off overpriced feed, when you find it, won't make any difference.

Whoa whoa whoa...

I just wondered if you raised goats.

I am, by my own admission, extremely cautious with my goats. Didn't know what your experience was. Didn't realize my question was threatening, if there is a better way to have phrased it, please share and I'll be smarter for the experience.

arcticow · #28 01/11/13, 07:34 PM

OK, big IF but if the nitrates are safe, IF there is some grain per bale, but only some, then the total aflatoxin load shoukln't be much different than the blended corn most use without knowing. Grind the whole bale, add clean grain such as milo or tested corn, and it will make a passible mixed feed. Thus helping to stretch the GOOD forage a lot further. Digestible Fiber will still be fairly low, total fiber fairly high. For ruminants only this will work effectively. For cattle or goats, use of a molasses feed tub to supplement should be plenty. For sheep, it might require adding a high protein meal, soy or cottonseed. If they are dry ewes, might get by with minerals and alfalfa pellets. Small amounts of the really good stuff added will cost, but the total money will stretch further.

Pony · #29 01/11/13, 08:52 PM

After last year's debacle over at Ozark Jewels (where there was nothing in the hay to indicate its toxicity), I am as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of grandmas in rocking chairs.

I am grateful for all the browse we have, and for the mildness of this winter. Next year, Pony! is going to have her own pasture to hay (if it all goes according to plan...)

dkhern · #30 01/11/13, 08:55 PM

i dont know about aflatoxin. folks here feel its better than a snowball

zant · #31 01/11/13, 09:35 PM

Around here it would be called a Crop Insurance scam.....LOT of money to be made..

arcticow · #32 01/12/13, 02:56 PM

Really have never seen or heard of aflatoxin in a grain or grass hay... nitrates heck yes, and it won't show, but in a dry year it pays to test, even your home-grown stuff. And in a drought, browse is more dependable than pasture, anyway.

Allen W · #33 01/12/13, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zant

Around here it would be called a Crop Insurance scam.....LOT of money to be made..

How do you figure that. Once the insurance company releases the crop you can do what you want with it except harvest for grain..