The Six Inch Question ?

I have bought five pieces of property in Missouri and more than that in Texas, and I've NEVER had to get a survey done. Have paid cash sometimes, borrowed money sometimes.

The original surveys were done in the 1800s in Missouri. The county tax notices have a specific number of acres on them, but the deeds may say "twenty acres more or less."

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

I always thought you're supposed to put your fence INSIDE your property line. This make more sense, otherwise your fence is trespassing on the other guy's property ( he might not want a fence on his land ). Thats the way I always understood, its the way its done in these parts.

When I had my property surveyed I placed T posts on the corners three inches on the diagonal from the survey pins with survey tags attached to them and have kept the ground pins and T post bases clean with a concrete drain tile around each.

After I set my perimeter fence 4 feet inside my property line I explained to the neighbors affected that it was set so I could walk the outside of MY fence to mow and repair it as required without being on their properties and the corner posts define our actual property boundaries.

Over the years I have had one neighbor try to encroach my maintenance way along my fence three times. I solved the two times they planted on my side of the line with brush killer after giving them time to remove the plants they put on my property against my fence.

When I caught them digging out the survey pins and T posts I reported it to my county probate office and the survey company came and reset the pins and sent the neighbors the bill while notating on my abstract that my fence was 4 feet inside my property line.

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"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"

Well You and the Neighbor could put up a fence On the line and share the cost and the expence of keeping it up But This sounds Like a War in the future-----I Own My fence and No Part is over the line---this sounds Like it would work out better in the Long Run!

Do Like I did on one section about 300ft long. I got T post and 3 strands of barbed wire just inside the property line--which runs about 1/2 mile on one side of my farm, then in one section I put up about 300ft of privancy fence 3ft inside of that so I could walk between the fences to do what ever is needed.

Ahh, neighbors and fences. Guy next to us just won't be friends. We've done everything we can, and we've always been friendly with previous neighbors in other places, but he's a cantankerous old coot, notorious in the area - all police, planning and county people know him. Sorry we do.

When we moved in, he complained that the fence between us had been put in by the prior owner of our property, and didn't match the rest of his fence. We told him he was welcome to make it match as long as we didn't have to pay for the changes, and he left the fence in place.

3 years later, after many other hassles, no reason to go into here, he paid for another survey, got a crew together one day when I was at work and cut the heavy-duty t-posts off at ground level, put in lighter weight t-posts and moved the fence 7 inches so it was 1 inch on his property. He left the sharp ends of the t-posts sticking out. Before, the survey showed it was 6 inches on our property. Then he called the police and told them what he had done.

I haven't had the money to start court proceedings, but it's coming this spring.

Hey, you could have him instead of whoever you currently have as a neighbor! Believe me, I'd probably be thrilled to trade.
Kit

One cannot afford to be ignorant regarding the laws in your state. A minimum would be a Google search on "your state fencing laws". I also encourage a search for "your state adverse possession law"..... Real eye opener.

I guess its human nature to be greedy. I know rationalization is a powerful human emotion. This is most noticeable in settling a divorce, settling an estate and when you get new neighbors.
I own property that runs along a road, giving me about a half mile of frontage. Land sections are supposed to be a mile square. Due to ancient surveys, they seldom are either.
When I had my land surveyed, I discovered this section was 60 feet short along the road. Since I owned half that measurement, my land is 30 feet less than a half mile.
Down the road, there are several lots cut out and they measured off the corner stake at that end of the section. When you add up all the legal descriptions of those pieces, there isn’t enough land to fulfill those descriptions. So, the last landholder, next to my property discovered that he is short 30 feet. He tried to kick me off “his” land. Then he expected me to forfeit another 30 feet of my land so his land description would be correct. I started trying to explain how each land owner along that road could equally reduce their lots, sharing equally in their loss. But, he was already confused.
My 40 acre woodlot shares a border on the east and north by a neighbor’s 120 acres. The road is on the south side. The neighbor’s good buddy wanted a wood lot. So, he sold him 40 acres, behind his 40 acre. This left my neighbor owning the 40 along my east line and a 40 along my north property line. He have his buddy an easement along his east property line. Then neighbor and his buddy got into a dispute over where the property line was. Former buddy paid $5000 to get the line surveyed.
There is a stake at my north-east corner. That is the south west corner of the former buddy. The neighbor’s 40 that is east of me, that stake is his north west corner. On my neighbor’s other 40, north of me, that stake is the south east corner. My neighbor’s 40 north of me is landlocked. I didn’t want to give him a free easement and he didn’t want to pay for one. Former buddy just laughed.
A few years passed and the land changed hands a couple times. When the last owner put it up for sale, I thought I’d buy the landlocked 40. Not worth much to anyone else. But the Realtor took a strip off the neighbor’s 40, just off my east property line, 20 feet wide and a quarter mile long and added it to the legal description of the 40 that is north of my land. But that doesn’t solve anything. At the end of that easement, is the former buddy’s land to the north, my land to the west and the land locked 40, kitty corner over the corner stake.
The problem resolved itself when the former buddy bought it and several other 40s in that section. But someone could have been really upset when they discovered they owned 40 acres they couldn’t get to plus an easement to no where.

Think of this, if you put the fence 6 inches inside of your line on a 40 acre fence you will be giving up 2640 square feet of pasture.

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Flaming Xtian
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Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

Haypoint - good point. Here land sections are "adjusted" on the West and North sides of the section to square everything up. The person owning the NW corner of the section gets "shorted" two ways often. The person owning the SE corner of the section may be the only one who actually owns the correct acreage in the entire section. That is why all of our abstracts say "containing xx.yy acres more or less".

I have owned a lot of land in Oregon. Fences were always shared. Why would I want to pay for miles of fence AND the neighbor do the same for a double fence. We always shared fence cost and labor. We agreed to type of fence and went to work on it. If I wanted fence on property that I needed to pasture and neighbor didn't need/want a fence because he had no livestock, I paid for the entire fence. BUT he was notified that if and when he got livestock he had to pay his half to use my fence, then it became our fence. Fences are always on the line, in town or country. I have seen fences in town with the boards on their side of the posts because they paid for the fence before any other houses were built. Most subdivisions put fence in at time of build and alternate each panel section....James

Imagine a wild man on a bulldozer would have taken out that fence, the day the letter stating there was a 100K assessment... that and or a wildfire would have swept thru the area... maybe even a hailstorm... of lead... Crazy begets Crazy.

Glad I ain't crazy.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

I appreciate your comments, and the folks that liked them.

However, prhaps some of you forget, I'm the ugly farmer, my neighbor is the one with 7 acres and 12 horses. As a little property owner, he needs all the land he can get, and as farmers are generally made to be the devil himself here, I'm sure not many people will take my side on this.

In today's farmland values, the guy will be taking about $385 worth of land from me, but whatever. I got bigger fish to fry than to worry about that guy or his petty theft.

Couple decades ago, the county got confused and took 3 acres from the folks. An old surveyor's place burned down, so the survey notes to a road were lost, and created the confusion.

Fed, state, and county law is changing so that we need to have a 16 foot buffer along the county ditch. thats 1300 feet times 2 sides, or .95 of an acre. No nothing about it, just a rule you gotta plant grass.

Remember, I'm the big bad farmer. Everyone gets to walk on me.

--->Paul

Mostly, here, fences are built on the line. We had. or have. a neighbor tie his cross fences, barb wire, in the middle, between posts-then, he proceeded to pull his fence tight--which put a strain on the entire stretch, first time, I unwired it- second time, I cut it. Then, on the road side, he set a post and tied onto our corner post.I wouldnt have minded, but he didnt do it proper, and install a brace post. Results is pulling corner post in the direction that my 2 way braces dont work.

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In Life, We Weep at the thought of Death'
Who Knows, Perhaps in Death,
We Weep at the though of Life.

Threee sides of my property is Nat'l Forest, no unsavory neighbors there. Sure makes it simpler.

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We will meet in the golden city, called the New Jerusalem,
All our pain and all our tears will be no more.....

It all depends on the laws of your state. In some places, where you put your fence is where you are declaring your property lines, and after x amount of time, the property reverts to the neighbor.
In some states, a fence is automatically communal property. I can't file theft on the neighbor who took the cattle panel by the creek bed - legally it was 1/2 his the second I put it up. But I can file and bring him to court to pay for 1/2 of my entire fenceline there and win - so it can be weird both ways.
Some places you need to fence in. Other places, it's your job to fence other people's critters out.

Basically, just know your laws. And not just the state ones, the local ones too. My Dad owned a place where your fence had to face your neighbor. Posts on your side, and the smooth fencing side on theirs, according to the township. Everybody wanted to wait for the other guy to get frustrated and put up fence first.
My Mom lives in a place where your property line is yours until your neighbor fences. Then, if they put their fence 8 inches in, you now have 8 more inches to maintain and mow. They still own it but you need to take care of everything on your side of their fence.
She lives in suburbia, so no big deal for her. But it is a county rule and the county still has plenty of rural areas and that rule cause a LOT of fights and ruckus. If you're smart there, you put that fence right on the line.

So fencing really isn't something that one person can tell another about. For myself, and my area, I don't want to lose land or start wars. I put up fence on the line. Your way of keeping the peace and the boundaries may need to be different

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A ship in the harbor may be safe, but that's not what ships are built for

I made sure on that one, our Estate attorney is also a RE attorney and also asked the survey company(which happens to be owned by two of my cousins) to make sure when we moved the fence back off the line, that the other siblings or new owners couldnt claim it.

For those of us living in Missouri.

G810 Missouri Fencing and Boundary Laws | University of Missouri Extension

I'd imagine that's just a whole 'nother set of problems. I've been on USFS land before, and the 'big maps' didn't jive with the real world on the ground boundaries, and have found myself on the wrong side of a non marked line. Disconcerting to be on what you think is FS land, and see in the distance a marker...

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

We only have two neighbors that abut our property and on one side we both run cattle and on the other is a divorced bachelor who has no livestock and not a dime to his name. The side with the neighbor with cattle we both maintain the fence and since he works 60 hours a week and commutes 60 miles I do most of the daily checking and maintenance and we get together to replace sections...you know, work together and share the cost? I keep an eye on his place during the day since I work here and right now his bull is on our pasture for 4 or 5 months to breed our heifers (we both win). The bachelor neighbor who doesnt have livestock isnt legally bound to help pay for or maintain our boundary fence so we take care of it and we also repair his other boundary fences and maintain his 8 acre pasture; in return he lets us run steers on his pasture and at the end of the year when we slaughter he gets a steer. Its nice and usually mutually beneficial to be neighborly.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why you would fence inside your own property line, lose the use of the boundary strip and then have a conniption if the neighbor wanted to tie into your fence and make him do a second fence with a no mans land between.

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