College - Is It Worth It??

Get an associate's in cnc machining and you'll only take 2 years. I took 1 year's worth of classes and got a certificate and then went back on Obama's dime and got a 2nd certificate in Composite Technology. Went to work manufacturing parts for the aerospace industry for 1 year then switched companies for better pay and benefits...now all I do is cut out panels using a 3 axis cnc router to be made into aircraft cabinetry. I like the job but am hoping to move out of state with my certificates once I get 3 years worth of experience.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

I've had a theory for many years that our entire educational system is broken. Not in the standard "teachers are underperforming, students aren't coming out well educated" kind of way, but more that the way schools are teaching kids just isn't the best way of doing things. I'll give an example of this by means of a question: Who charged in the "charge of the light brigade?". Why were they charging? What significance did it have? ....see, if you're into history, you might know. You might actually have learned it back in school. I know a fair amount about it, as I love history... but I couldn't play a single note on a trumpet ~ nor could I pass a calculus test at this point ~ or really even remember much about the Scarlet Letter... and yet I took all these classes and knew the material at one point in time.

So what's the significance of this? Why did I remember some things but not others? Primarily because I liked history, but never had much use for the other subjects. And I think that's true for alot of folks. They seek out what they like, whether prompted or not. They remember it because it's enjoyable. But they forget the things they didn't like. I guess, in my typical roundabout way, my question would be "why even teach it, if most will never remember it, nor will it have any practical application on a person's life?

I've argued this point with a number of people. They say to me it's all about being more well rounded and somehow as a result a better citizen. I say, if a person doesn't remember the stuff, how well rounded can they really be? Why take all these classes, spend all this time and effort, at any level of education, if a person is just going to forget half of it anyhow?

I think that what would be far more beneficial than this "well rounded" approach would be to actually go in the opposite direction, and become more specialized - while at the same time getting them outside the classroom and into the office... or the factory... or whatever. Start at 12 years old and expose the kids to a number of occupations. Start moving them down a certain path based on what they're interested in and where their aptitude lies. Do it again at 15. Cut out the fluff, focus on key core classes relevant to that skill set, and give greater flexibility in offerings of electives. I think, by doing this, a student would retain more of what they learned, I think they'd learn faster, I think students would be more attentive, and teachers would experience more job satisfaction. By the time that student hit college age, they'd be heads and tails above their fellow college freshmen, and with a far better understanding of the field they were looking at entering. Anyhoo, just some thoughts...

Uummm - I'd suggest you might learn how to use spell check too.

.

I have a bachelor's degree in occupational safety and health and I'm about halfway through a MBA. I work as a field service technician and production manager for a company that repairs electric arc furnaces for the steel industry. While my job doesn't require my education in safety on a daily basis, I do manage the safety program for our company, it's just not a large portion of my job requirements. I am almost 27 and all through high school we were told basically that if you would go to college and get a degree, you would get a job. After a couple years of college I started to see that it wasn't exactly true. I was fortunate enough to get a part time job with the company I now work for doing general labor, and eventually learned how to machine and weld. Once I graduated the company hired me on with a full time salaried position as the "safety manager" of the company, but the need for a experienced field technician and machinist was greater and that is what I have ended up doing for the most part.

Even though my four year education is just a minor part of my current job, I don't regret it one bit. It has help put me in a position where I am not doing all the hard manual labor that I had to do as a part timer, and if things would ever go south where I am at now, It is almost impossible to get an interview at some places without a degree. I also am thankful that I have been able to learn a useful trade from some very knowledgable manual and cnc machinists. I don't know if it's just where I went to high school or if it's more widespread but training in trades was never pushed even though it was available for us. If I had been shown what you could do with cnc equipment and programming I probably would have went that route.



TedH71,

I program a KOMO cnc router where I work. It's not too often I hear people talk about them or even know what one is. We use it too cut out electrical insulation material.

There was just a thread about this in General Chat/Politics.... here's what I wrote there:

There are three issues here that I saw when I was working with teenagers:

1) Because of NCLB, public schools are pushing ALL kids into a "college-prep" mentality. Instead of being able to let them take business math, they have to take algebra. If they aren't passing their state tests in the core subjects, they won't let them go to the local tech schools to get a tech degree. The system is now set up to churn out college-ready kids, and there is almost zero encouragement for students to go to a trade school.

2) Many parents believe that their child MUST have a 4-year degree and would be embarrassed if their kid went to a trade school instead. Kids are not encouraged to get a blue-collar tech degree anymore, even thou most people who complete those programs graduate after less than 2 years and make more money than I used to with a Master's Degree. My DH's ex wife is one who wants my SS to go to a 4-year college (even thou he wants to major in History, which isn't going to get him a job doing squat), because "community college is beneath him" .

3) Kids choose what they want to major in without having any idea what jobs they can get with that degree (like my SS...he loves history and when I asked him what jobs he thought he was going to get with a BA in History, he and said that he had no idea). I used to bring up future plans with the teens I counseled and you would not believe how many of them would say "I like history/english/art/etc so I'm going to go get a degree in that!". I tried to tell them that you need to decide what JOB you want to work, then work backwards to see what kind of degree you need (if any) to accomplish it.

As a side note, my BIL dropped out of college after a few semesters due to financial issues.... He has an awesome work ethic and isn't afraid to get dirty and he will work his fingers to the bone for his employer.

He's been with the same company for almost 12 years. Started at the lowest level and thru hard work made his way up the ladder. He hit a wall about 4 or 5 years into his career, thou, because EVEN THOU he has more experience and time in the field than others he works with, the people with the college degrees always seem to be promoted over him.

It frustrates him to no end to see people who know less about the job than he does, have less time with the company than he does, who have to ask him how to do the work, who aren't willing to put in the hours he is, etc etc get promoted to jobs that he applies for too. He is a good interviewer and frequently gets told "Gosh, I wish you had finished your degree......." by higher ups. In his case, even a degree in history/psychology would have helped him immensely.

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Doctor of Veterinary Medicine?

Great job and salary for her, but not so great for the thousands of seniors who can't afford their medications because of overpaid employee's.

I guess its different strokes for different folks though,
some love money while others love life.

It all depends on whether, it's all about money, or doing what make one happy.

If she wanted to be an artist, most likely a starving, but happy one, verses spending the rest or her life - making big bucks, counting pills, then so be it.

It's the "I'm not going to pay for college", part that ended up being the deciding factor, which is a shame, IMO.

But then, it is his money.

The most important thing you can do is learn - and keep learning all of your life. The definition of learning is the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, practice, or study, or by being taught. Nothing is ever wasted. Basic education gives you a grounding and the more you have the more you can branch out. It teaches you to learn. If you graduate with an arts degree you could work as a starving artist or graphics deisigner or fabric designer or go into interior design or even architecture. Or you could teach or grow organic gensing.

Most people have more than one career in their work life. Sometimes what you end up doing is a choice and other times it is just circumstances or even accidental.

Just because you go to university does not mean that you will actually work in your major. Just because you complete a carpentry diploma or apprenticeship does not mean that you will not end up as a fireman.

We have many friends and co-workers who went to university and are actually working in very different fields than what they studied. Did they waste their money. Absolutely not. We also have friends who did no go past highschool or even finish highschool and worked very hard at both their jobs and learning a trade or profession afterwards. A geologist who got tired of being away from his family for months at a time so went back to school to become a mechanic - he always loved cars. A surveyor who became a doctor. A retail sales clerk who became a bookkeeper. A garbage man who is now an IT tech. A dairy farmer who became an RN. A machinist who is now a hairdresser. A mining engineer who builds houses. A business executive who does water and environmental analysis. An accountant who farms full time raising potatoes and bison and a submarine officer who owns a coffee shop. A nuclear physicist who teaches grade school and a microbiologist who is now a cartographer. All of these people had great careers in their field but also made changes - some so they could move, stay home or just have an adventure. The education that they got at university or trade school let them do one thing but this basic grounding also allowed them to easily tranfer to other fields.

The daughter of my friend just graduated from college with a degree in psychology. Her mom thinks she found a good job so quickly is that she went to a good school in Boston. That may be so but my friend and her hubby are deeply in debt as is their daughter. This girl is making house-sized payments that will last 30 years! Most of these loans are private student loans so if my friend's daughter dies or becomes disabled, my friend and her husband still have to pay these loans back.

I just don't see how this makes any sense at all. The girl would be better off financially had she not gone to school (or went to school at a cheaper school). Even though she has a college education she still needs a bunch of roommates to keep a roof over her head.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

Guess you never hit the wrong key twice or anything...

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

I have a magazine here that lists a GREAT occupation, VERY little training needed! It says Lifeguards in Newport Beach, California make $98,000 a year TO START (includes overtime). The best paid tenured lifeguards earn more than $200K a year, including an allowance for suntan lotion.

Mon

Rockefeller's fortune was made by exploiting his political connections, not being a self-made man. He is an early example of what is wrong in politics today...but that's another thread by itself.

I think that as a society we put too much pressure on ALL kids to attend college. It's not for everyone, nor are they all interested but go because it is expected. The other issue that I see first hand is that the college career counselors, parents, and even college professors preach to these young folks that if they get a _____ degree, they will be able to command a high salary because of their education. Bull-pucky! There are thousands of kids that graduate with a degree in Business Management or Business Administration with absolutely NO WORK HISTORY. Yet, as a Recruiter, I am the one that tells these kids that "no, you are not prepared to manage the sales department, but we might be able to hire you as an entry level sales assistant". Colleges need to be more honest about the return on investment. Seriously, why would someone go into debt 5 or 6-figures and then think that they are going to be able to pay off their student loans.
We operated a little different with our two sons; College was a choice but not a written in stone demand. We gave them three choices when they turned 18 (we talked about it with them for many years prior to their 18th birthday so it wasn't a surprise) Choice #1: Be enrolled in college but be prepared to pay your own way. Choice #2: Join a branch of the military, any branch. Choice #3: Welcome to America, get a job and an apartment, you're welcome for Sunday Dinner. Oldest son had a full-ride scholarship which he turned down to join the Army. Did 6 years in Army, and when he got out went to work for as an electricians helper. The company paid for him to get his journeyman electrician stuff. Youngest son joined the Coast Guard Reserve and once he was done with basic, enrolled in college under the military's tuition-assistance program. Both very successful in their career-choices and no student debt.

I agree 100%, I myself do not have a degree but make a great living based on my years of experience, so does my sister w/o a degree(different line of work). I have friends that got a degree because that is what they were supposed to and don't make more than $20-$34k a year, same age as me, but I make more and my sister makes even more than that.

I think degrees are really good as a life experience, I just went on a different path. Worked pretty good, if a say so myself. I work HARD and am good at what I what I do and am rewarded appropriately.

If you don't have good work ethic, no type of degree can make up for that, JMHO. Now for my kids, they better go to college and be better than me, but they have college funds set up already so a little different, no debt LOL !

I think that while a college degree will benefit many people in many ways, the value is more in the sheet of paper than in the experience. I mentioned in a prior post that I got my degree in accounting... that degree cost tens of thousands in student loan debt. My sister, by comparison, went to school at an "art college". She spent over $100,000. Neither her nor I have many friends from that time period in our lives. My girlfriend, who attended the same school as I did, has no friends from that time period either. I've talked to some friends from other schools, and while some have kept acquaintance, rare is the time that their college experience served as a benefit in any sort of a social networking format.

Going back to my sister: My sister was very proud of her hundred thousand dollar photography degree. After all, it got her a job at Target making less than ten dollars an hour. The degree should have been like cigarettes and come with a warning label ~ mainly that the degree would in almost every likelihood never pay for itself. But that was a slam dunk kind of situation ~ there are other degrees that are not so obvious, that will likewise make a person minimal money. But, unfortunately, this isn't really spelled out by the guidance counsellor upon admission.

College is what a person makes of it, but oftentimes even then isn't worth much. It costs years off a person's life. It costs money and energy. But, it's an unfortunate evil that people have to go through to move ahead in this world. I took management classes, but learned nothing of management until starting my own business. I took marketing classes, but had no idea of how to make a sale before I got out and started doing it on my own. I took accounting classes, and while these were the most applicable, the majority of them have had no bearing on my career.

For me, the jury's still out on whether college is worth it or not.

LOL ..... DVM is a veternarian.

LazyJ does your wife specialize?


(I see someone beat me to it)

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A wise person speaks when they have something to say but a fool speaks just to say something

Sorry, I sent it from my smart phone. Next time I will have someone proofread my posts.

Interesting thread.

In the current economy technical school diplomas and two year junior college degrees can have more value for the tuition buck spent.

I know two high school vocational students who studied welding and have enrolled in our area technical college for medical/government level welding training and already have job offers to continue their education OJT while at the same time earning $15 to $25 an hour during their first two or three years on the job depending on how much additional certifications they get.

There are also a couple area engineering firms hiring employees with 2 year associate degrees in pre-engineering and offering tuition reimbursement for a C or better grade to employees getting their bachelor degrees in night and weekend classes.

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