College - Is It Worth It??

You overlook the fact that a college degree tells the prospective employer that you can stick to something and follow through on it for four years.

The first thing I told my kids was when you go to college (note: not if you go) you've got to get a degree in something salable. If your heart is set on basket weaving under water - get a dual degree.

A trade school is a really good alternative. Lots of junior colleges teach welding, and other much needed trades.

If you want to get an education, you can. Scholarships, Junior colleges, working while going to college, some work places will pay for your schooling, live at home, etc. It may take 5 years but it can be done without the huge 100,000 bill.

My concern is the liberalization of colleges, the rewriting of our history and the fact that students are not being taught to think.

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Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible

Having four chirren's, the idea of whether or not to go to college is large in my mine. I personally went to college. My parents went to college. My grandparents also went to college way on back in the 20's, and I believe at least a few of my great grandparents as well. Still, times have changed. By the time my children get to college age in a decade, costs could be over $100,000 each. Is this a wise investment? Might it not be better to put that money into starting a business with some form of tutelage? Or, might it not be better to buy an inexpensive house outright, perhaps even getting numerous room-mates at the same time, and go to work doing something that doesn't require a degree (such as manufacturing or construction or oil related?). Or, finally, what if the money is simply allowed to sit and grow?

I think that college will normally be the best route, but I likewise think there is some "opportunity loss" there. At no point in time will a person have less debt and more energy than when they are 18 years old, so if that person ~did~ have a good idea and the right guidance, there might be better opportunities than college.

I look back at my own experiences with school with some of this. I got my degree in Accounting, which would seem about as straightforward a degree as possible. Still, it took me six years to get through, and I accrued tens of thousands in student loan debts (that's a pittance by today's standards I think). So that was six years for a four year degree. The first half of college was really nothing more than a re-hashing of high school... classes in history, chemistry, business writing, english literature, trigonometry and calculus... The second half of college comprised my business classes, of which just under half were non-accounting related: Marketing, management, computer science, statistics. So basically 75% of my college curriculum didn't really apply to my degree, and little of it had any real-world application afterwards. Still, there was the remaining 25% ~ the Accounting portion. Of this, there was Cost accounting, Tax accounting, Auditing, and General Ledger. Even with this, unless one were to work for a public accounting firm, roughly half would not be used again after school, and I've thought that much of it would have been better learned in six months on a job in some form of apprenticeship. So, for me, it's a necessary evil. It's how some get to the "big bucks". But there's also alot of unneccessary fluff.

"You want fries with that?"

Forgive me, Lord. I just couldn't help myself.

I know a heart surgeon that says if he had it to do over, he wouldn't....probably has something to do with that framed check on his wall from Medicaid for 90 dollars as reimbursement for a heart operation he did on a patient.

I once read a poster that said "College is a warm safe place to be while growing up"
and that made a lot of sense to me. But, at the same time, I agree with those above who said College is about more than just learning a "major", it is about contacts and learning how to find a job.

I think a huge major mistake is made by those who get Tuition and living expense Student Loans and then do not work while in college. I have seen kids who rack up $70,000 in student loans for only a 4 year degree. There is no sense or excuse for that at all. Almost anyone can work a job while in school. I did it, my husband worked and my kids worked - all while in school.

Just because someone gets a student loan, does not (or should not) be permission to just go to school and not work. Also, good education and degrees can be found for lower costs. Community Colleges are great places to learn and have low cost programs that will meet most any need.

I agree with the person above who said College is what you make of it and you get out of it what you put in it. Overall, I think college educations are still the best value and long term plan. Student loans, however, can be a trap for those who rely on the loans only and do not work to help themselves.

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Meanwhile, Back in Saluda

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I was one of those kids that didn't know what they wanted to be when they grew up.
Never did decide. I did know several things I did not want to be.
I went to college and got a degree, engineering.
I went to trade school, welding.
I went through an apprentice program, electrician.
I got a degree paid for by a company I worked for, hydroelectric engineering.
Getting a good paying job was easy for me.
I never did decide what I wanted to be.
Guess I just floated through life.

I have a B.S., M.S., and Ph.D. My wife has a B.S., M.S. and a D.V.M. To us a coolege education was a great investment. HOWEVER, we chose fields that actually had GOOD PAYING JOBS!

I tire of the stories of high debt being a problem, the problem is people not using their brains when it comes to an education investment. How smart is it to obtain $75,000 in student loans for a career that only pays $35,000?

Exactly! Ya know, I'm tired of the phrase "American dream." I wish we started preaching "American reality" instead. My daughter has a bunch of friends who are taking some graphic design program at Boces this year. I don't mean to pshaaaa their "dream" of being a video game designer... but not only are they lacking in artistic ability, they are wasting half of their high school education day PLAYING with photoshop, illustrator, and Maya. When they graduate they won't have the skills or ability to compete in the market AND they won't have the advanced Regents degree you need to get accepted into one of the art schools that would give them the ability to compete in the market.

I realize there could be a student or two that follow that education plan and make it to the top based on their talent... but those couple of students would make it with or without a Boces program that I truly feels wastes the education of the other 99%.

Hmmm, two of my degrees is on that list with negative ROIs, and believe me, they are definitely NEGATIVE.

Luckily, I worked through my college years and did not obtain a crippling debt. I do agree that it is a problem to get student loans for living expenses. It is a big, black hole.... and most kids don't know how to budget it anyway.

At this very moment, I have figured how to budget a 4 year degree for an 18 year old, using current cost of living and such, for $50k total and the 18 year old wouldn't have to work. BUT, that is NOT budgeting in designer jeans, Friday and Saturday night parties, ect., etc. Just basics, apartment, bills, food, gas, tuition, books, supplies.

If said kid were to continue living in the same minimalist fashion after college, while working a job that paid, say, $45k a year, all costs of that degree could be paid back in 5 years (including the loan interest).

In other words, even now, one CAN get a four-year degree without working, completely on student loans, AND be debt free within 5 years, if one is willing to live minimally and frugally for that time. If one can get scholarships, grants, etc., one can shorten that time period considerably.

But it CANNOT be done while going to an Ivy League University while buying designer sweaters and spending every weekend painting the town red with one's friends.

It's all about choices.

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Peace,
Caliann

"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck

I noticed this as well. Some of the 8 provided a good steady income. One thing that both my husband and I learned is that education is never wasted and money isn't everything.

The best thing in life is loving what you do for a living. He had an enormously successful career (money wise) for 20 years and yet going to work was a chore. Went back to school to change careers and for 15 years has earned a LOT less money but loves his job completely. I was never happy working for others so started my own business. I made less than if I had continued on my corporate path but I was completely free to make my own life. But to do this I still needed that little piece of paper.

Is it worth it? It rather depends. What is your style of learning? If you're good at using available resources to learn you probably don't need the structure of college and thus, no, college would be a waste of time and money. If you need structure and to be spoon fed then college may help, if you apply yourself.

If you are going into a profession that requires a degree then there may be no way around it.

Personally, I don't think college is worth it.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

My SIL went through college, got her degree (food service management). Somewhere along the way, she was working for a national pizza chain as manager. There was one worker where she worked, had been with the company 15 years. That woman knew EVERYTHING there was to know about managing the restaurants. The company would send her to train new managers in town.

SIL questioned the company: why was this woman NOT a manager? She was clearly capable of managing the restaurants.

The company replied that the woman didn't have a college degree and ONLY people with degrees could be managers. SIL argued that the woman KNEW the job. The ompany replied that yes she did. However, she did not take advantage of their college assistance program, so she was obviously not interested in managing.

The woman could have gone to college on the company's dime and increased her income right out the gate by over 20K a year...but she chose not to, for whatever seemed reasonable to HER.

Just a thought.

Mon

Not everyone is geared to work with their hands (trades) or be an engineer, chemist, doctor, lawyer etc.

To claim a degree is not worth the cost through some shallow, purely economic analysis is stupid. Tell all the people who have been helped by teachers, nutritionists, psychologists, social workers, etc that those degrees are not worth the money they cost.

Life is a little more complex than this.


Tim

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Taxes, in excess of what are needed to fulfill the constitutionally authorized activity of government, are theft

If she doesn't do well hunting down scholarships consider sending her as an international student to Canada for her education in medical laboratory technology. Same courses as she'd get in the states but it costs less to get educated in Canada.

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Fer what its worth... J. D. Rockefeller took a ten week business course after high school... it seemed to have served him well.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Geesh...with all those degrees and letters after your name, you might learn how to use spellcheck..... LOLOLOL........

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Be a fountain, not a drain!

^()^
http://tubbsfarmstead.com/

It also shows perspective employers that you have the power to stay with a project, have a goal and can accomplish it, and that you have priorities. Hopefully, you won't start a job with them and lose interest after a short time. They want to know that if they go to all the trouble to train you; you will stick around.

OTOH, I have a sister that has degrees in everything and switches jobs like she switches britches. Doesn't look so good on her resume, you know? She bores easily and has a tiff with another employee, she goes back to school. She thinks the boss is playing favorites and treats another person better than she is getting treated; she goes to school and gets another certificate or degree and finds another job. She has more careers than you can imagine.

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Be a fountain, not a drain!

^()^
http://tubbsfarmstead.com/

Median salary for a heart surgeon, is over $500K per year.

Hopefully he gets more than $90 per surgery, normally, otherwise, he have them all framed.

I wasnt going to say anything... but yeah... one would think!

Being an old country boy myself I am familiar with "BS" and presume that "MS" stands for more of the same... with the "PHD" signifying piled higher and deeper.... but for the life of me I cant quite figure out that "DVM"??? Depth and volume measuring perhaps?

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I didn't know what I wanted to do in college. Everyone told me I was good with kids and that I should be a special education teacher. So I put in 3.5 years of college....only to find out that I really don't like other people's kids. I was working 40 hours a week at a group home to get through school and I burned out on the whole special education thing. Since I was already in it deep, and already had an AAS, I took another year and a half and got my Bachelors of General Studies. (Yes, you can laugh at it, but I bet I'll kick your heiney in Jeopardy and Trivia Pursuit! LOL) When it comes to applying for a job I can say I have a degree and that puts me over those who took a few classes. I can do almost any job that doesn't require specific knowledge (like nursing) or special certificates (like computer networking). My brother works as a food chemical salesman and makes about $90K a year-much better than someone who never went to school after college.

My degree has paid off in other ways. At the time, I didn't know why God was taking away a desire I had to be a special needs teacher. Then DH and I found out that we couldn't have birth kids. We got into fostering and (surprise!) a lot of our kiddo's were considered "special education" kids. Some for things like speech needs and others for slight autism or behavioral needs. My background in special education made it so that I could better communicate with the school system and I could translate the edu-garble to the social workers and Judges. I could write better and more informed letters to the Court on behalf of my kids, too. I really feel that I couldn't have done that if I didn't go to college. As it is now, I have adopted a kid with mental illness, autism and a low IQ. Again, I would not have done this without the special education background. I know what to look for and how to talk with his teachers and medical team. When we found out his one chance at adoption failed, he was 7 years old, male and a minority. Add in all of the other stuff and I really doubt anyone would have adopted him. I know that God had me go through all of those classes so that I could be a better parent to my son. In this case, a degree not only helps me, it's helping him to have a home with a Mom and a Dad and siblings who totally love him.

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I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one.

I also believe that workers need Unions as much as gun owners need the NRA.