New here - a few questions about gardening and composting
 

Hi there,
I am new here, although I have lurked for a while off and on. As my handle implies, I am a southerner in zone 9. I unfortunately live on a VERY shaded lot (surrounded by very very tall oaks that belong to neighbors on three sides). I have a few questions for those of you with more experience than I - which would be every last one of you. :)

I started container gardening a few years ago. Started with just a couple strawberry plants. They did ok, gave me a few strawberries each summer with very little fuss (I watered them occasionally, that was it). So last year (spring of 2011) I bought a blueberry plant from the local big box store, and a couple more strawberry plants. Also grew tomatoes and peppers from seed. These all grew for a bit and then died, no yield at all. I guess it was the lack of sunshine. I put them in the sunniest part of my yard, right next to the driveway, which gets a few hours of direct sun a day. The blueberry plant gave me only just a few blueberries.

This year I bought several things from a big online nursery:
-blueberry plants
-strawberries
-blackberries
-raspberries
-tomatoes
-dwarf lemon and key lime trees

I planted everything in containers with Jungle Gro potting soil.

Had a complete FAILURE of a spring and summer. Here's what's weird - most of the new strawberry plants (and I have probably 10-12 of them) look healthy and grew a little bit. They just have produced NO berries. A couple of them do have holes in the leaves like something's been chewing on them. (See pic at bottom.)

Blueberries - my two new ones look ok, leaves are kinda purple, no berries.
My old blueberry plant looks like it has a fungus of some sort (picture attached) - help in diagnosing would be appreciated.

Tomatoes - all died.

Raspberry - looks like a stick in the pot. No leaves. It produced one raspberry this summer.

Blackberry - one long vine, no berries, has grown out into the yard from its pot. Is gradually losing leaves from the bottom upward.

Key lime and lemon - look exactly as they did when I planted them in the pot, lol.

Also, I tried composting. My compost is not breaking down. I was turning it for a while during the summer but quit because it was so frustrating. Then ants got into it. I checked it yesterday and there are whole eggshells on top (I haven't added to it in months) and white mold on one side. On the other side is an ant bed. Do I just chuck this whole pile? Why didn't it break down? I mixed it with leaves (mostly oak) with my fruit/veggie scraps, coffee grounds and eggshells.

To sum it up - I want to have a thriving garden and make my own compost. I am frustrated and wondering where I have gone wrong.

Y'all be easy on me because I'm a newbie and do have a brown thumb. :o I want so badly to be a good gardener. My husband tells me what's missing is "plant husbandry" and he might be right.

This year's blueberries:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_2418.jpg

Last year's blueberries:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_2417.jpg

This year's strawberries:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_2419.jpg

What did you use for potting soil? Believe me, the soil makes all the difference. How big are the blackberry and raspberry pots? Are roots coming out the bottom of the pots? Do you have a morning/evening sunny location where you can plant the rasp and black berries in the ground? Blueberry is also in too small a pot. Looks like some sort of fungus or mold on the leaves but I have never encountered that problem, so no help there.

Eggshells take forever to decompose. Do you water your compost pile?

Thank you for the reply! It was some sort of Jungle Growth potting soil, supposedly organic or something. It wasn't cheap so I assumed it was good...
I don't think I have any good spots in the yard to plant things in the ground, but I'm going to see if maybe we can use the "bed" by the side of our driveway on the edge of our property. It's pretty shady though. Actually I went out and looked at it and there are a lot of old roots and ants and stuff...might not be such a good place to plant things after all.

I will look at repotting the blueberries that aren't covered up in mold. Also, I have watered the compost when it looked dry. It is in a black compost bin with a little sliding door on the side and a latching top. (It came with our house.)

Also I didn't say this in my original post, but my questions are also:
1. Should I pull all this up and reuse the pots/potting soil, or leave them be and try to make a go of these plants next spring?
2. If the plants should go, can the soil be reused, or should I toss it in case it is harboring fungus or something?
3. I want to start a fall garden. Can I grow some of the fall planting veggies like kale, lettuce, carrots, etc in pots? And will they do well in partial (mostly) shade here in zone 9? Do they do well in pots?

Thanks!

to me, the blueberry looks like it might need more acidic soil. since you are gardening in containers, this should be pretty easy to find at the big box stores, just look for soil for blueberry bushes. my new blueberry plants are planted in rotting wood mulch, which is pretty acidic, and mulched with coffee grounds.

did you plant your tomatoes and things in the ground at all, or are you just using pots? the last time i had tomatoes here in the ground in florida, nematodes got them. the roots were all gnarly and horrifying, and the plant barely lived past flowering. up until flowering i had no idea anything was wrong. this year we grew cherry tomatoes from seeds in buckets with peter's soil, i think. it was a wild success.

if you own your house you might be able to trim the trees that overhang your garden. just don't go too crazy with that, good shade is hard to come by!

all those cooler weather plants should do fine in containers, though i personally don't grow root veggies in pots. just make sure it's a big pot with loose soil. i have had a bit of success with lettuce on the patio, which is very shady.

i know they grow a lot of strawberries in ruskin, but i think they spray chemicals like crazy on the plants. and of course, they only grow the plants during the winter so florida can supply the US with the season's first strawberries. that's great that you have had success with them through your warmer weather. what ones i have been able to nurse through the summer had all their berries eaten off by squirrels.

i think that the raspberries would do well by your driveway, they are plant that naturally likes shady edges. but prickly so maybe that's not such a hot idea.

your raspberry and blackberry may be just dying down for the season. mine are turning brown and looking like zombie plants too. try bending the cane of the raspberry. if it breaks, that cane is dead. if it's flexible, still good. the individual canes usually die after fruiting, but the roots send up more shoots.

and try not to be discouraged!

-Tentance
just north of tampa
Olde Scrub Land Vantage

This is very helpful, thank you for taking the time to reply, Tentance! Can I just put coffee grounds directly on the soil around the blueberry? Do I put it on top like a mulch or mix it in to the soil a bit?
P.S. Just bent the cane of the raspberry and it does bend, so maybe it's just gone dormant. I will give that one more time in the spring and see if it revives.

I live in BR, zone 8b, and oak leaves don't break down in our climate, you must have REAL sunshine, water and NO tree roots to grow a garden. I'd look for a Community garden spot to rent or share (which is exactly what I did), because what you've described is not plant-friendly. Best regards, ldc

The number of holes in the leaves wouldn't have prevented them from producing. Some strawberries don't produce until the 2nd year after planting. For any plant to produce fruit - be it a strawberry or a tomato, they need lots and lots of sunlight. Tomatoes in pots will need more fertilizer than those planted in the ground. I'd not put a regular-sized tomato in a pot less than 5 gallons - bigger would be better.

The blueberry might not do so badly in the ground - if you can find a sunny spot. They can do with a bit of shade, however it will affect production. They grow wild in the forests, after all. Soil acidity is an absolute must - they need about 4.5 so be sure they are potting with acidic soil or add soil acidifier to the pot. I'd ask someone at a garden center (a real garden center) what kind to use in your area.

Other gardeners have the same kinds of troubles their first try. Don't get discouraged. Look into a master gardener class from the extension service in your area - or ask if they give home gardening classes.

Thank you all for replying, you have all been very helpful. If nothing else, I'm feeling not so alone and am much more motivated to keep trying, even if it requires lots of tweaking.

Also I turned my compost and found the mold was just a bit on the top, and the ant bed was deserted (yay) so I just mixed everything up again and found that it was actually breaking down halfway decently - the only recognizable thing was the eggshells. It's a very small pile (the bin is like a tenth full) so I really need to buckle down adding to it. I know the bigger the pile the faster it breaks down. Maybe I'll have some good compost to add to my soil in the spring!

When repotting those plants, do not try reusing that soil. The plants have taken the nutrients out of it and they would do much better with new soil and bigger pots. For the strawberries, have you considered raised beds? You fill the bed with new soil and add soil and amendments every year. Strawberries do very well in raised beds.

My blueberries did okay last year in dappled shade in zone 6. They have been in the ground only a year so I didn't expect much.

The mature size of your plants indicates the size of the container you need. Those large round storage tubs make good planting containers for large plants. I've got a banana in one. Everything you have really needs to be in larger containers. Those tiny containers dry out too fast and the roots get too hot.

Put your used potting soil in a place where you might want to plant some stuff in the ground.

I'll repeat what Danaus mentioned about the pots drying out fast and the black pots heat up more then white pots would. In your first post you said you "watered occasionally". You need to water pots every day, maybe even twice a day if they dry out quickly. Looking at your blueberry and strawberry pots I think they've been underwatered, otherwise there wouldn't be so many dry brown or yellowing leaves.
Cover them with some Remay cloth which lets in the light and rain but keeps the birds and bugs off your plants.

Your compost doesn't have enough green materials to heat up and decompose. Just kitchen scraps are not going to heat up enough to decompose oak leaves. See if you can find maybe a stable that will let you haul off their manure for free or even a stockyard. If I am running short of manure the local stockyard will let me have all I want to take. Your pile is simply imbalanced.

Do some reading on planting times for southern zone 9. Spring is too late. Basically you want most of your production complete by June for annuals, take a break July-August then replant Sept-Oct for your winter crop. June-August unless you are insanely dedicated, just shoot for keeping things alive. Pots heat up earlier than the ground so you have to get a head start to beat the heat. Start your tomato seeds in Jan, not spring.

Many of the issues you mention are lack of enough water. From about April-Oct you will need to water pretty much every day and usually twice a day. Then still check that the soil is damp by sticking your finger in a couple inches. Some potting soil is extremely hard to saturate and keep it damp. Once or twice a week fertilize at half strength after watering.

The blackberry will spread next year. Dropping some leaves at this time of year is normal, mine are half bare. The color of the blueberry is normal for this time of year. Ants indicate late of moisture in the compost heap. Glad they moved out though. A bigger pile is easier to keep working.

The sick blueberry looks like powdery mildew. You can treat it but prevention is best. First thing is get rid of those leaves, garbage, not on the ground or compost heap.

Watering goes a long way in solving gardening problems in zone 9.

Eggshells need to be crushed in a blender before composting.

We had to put down our old horse as he was suffering from arthritis and an inoperable bad tooth. He was 29 yrs. old. Our present work horse is 30+ yrs and showing signs of arthritis now and has trouble getting up. He will die naturally unless he is suffering. We would never eat an animal that has been sick whether it had arthritis or anything else. We could never eat an animal we had a close emotional attachment too either. At least I couldn't. We recently lost a young goat with a heart defect and used the meat to make dog and cat food. I have nothing against anyone eating meat but have been a vegetarian after seeing my husband butcher the first goat! I know I am a wimp but can't eat anything that looks human inside!

Powdery mildew is easy to eliminate with a little milk and water, about 1 tablespoon milk in a gallon of water, add a couple drops of dish soap and sprinkle or spray on the affected areas.

I've had powdery mildew on a couple things, but never on a blueberry.

A good alternative to expensive blueberry or rhododendron soil is 4 parts peat, 4 parts compost or good quality potting soil, 1 part sand and 1 part composted manure. Blueberries won't survive the winters in pots here unless the pots are sunken into the ground. But I have kept potted blueberries through the summer in a similar mix.

There are wonderful small blueberries bred for pots. Having more than one named variety will aid in pollenization.
Do your oaks drop their leaves in the winter? If they do, then winter may be the gardening season for you to grow sun lovers like tomatoes and peppers. Starting them just before the leaves shed and have fast growers to get done before they get shaded out.
There are shade loving tropical plants that might produce something for you under any circumstances. I would ask my local nursey or garden group.
Also lettuces and other greens might do well in your winter and they do ok with some shade.

I cetainly love your determination- that's the only way to get what you want. :)

Despite the hype around container gardening, I find it to be one of the hardest ways grow anything due to the formentioned water and nutrient issues. Especially for perrenials, ie you spend years getting something to produce, then you forget to water it for a week and it dies, or just barely hangs on forever, never producing. Plus to do it right, you may need huge pots and hundreds of pounds of soil, depending on the mature size of the plant.

I say take that sunniest place in your yard, get a soil test to check PH and nutrient levels, amend, and start planting the stuff you already have in pots. If you have sucess there, venture farther and farther into the shade until the plants die or stop producing.

Next, get away from the big box store. They sell the exact same plants across the country, no matter how well they grow. Instead, speak with the local agricultural agent to see what varieties they recommend area. You might be able to find these at a local nursery, or you may have to order online (which comes with issues as well). You can also look for people selling divisions of local plants at the farmers market, or if you are real bold, you can go knock on someone's door, chat them up, and ask for a division (my favorite, a great way to meet the neighbors!).

Then just give everything time. It took several years for our blackberries, rasberries and blue berries to put on some size and really start producing well (I still haven't had any luck with strawberries though). We are still waiting on our fruit trees after 5 years, only getting spotty harvests, but they are starting to look really good.

For some quick results, try planting some annual vegetables. If you are set on container gardening, try some of the fall crops like lettuce, radishes, onion sets, greens, ect which you might still be able to plant this year. In the fall, watering demands ease up and depending on the types of oaks, you might get some more sunlight.

Getting a good, hot, fast compost pile is about volume. It has to have the mass to retain the heat that the composting organisms love. Go around the neighborhood and pick up enough bagged leaves to make a pile around 12 feet in diameter and 4 feet high. As you pile them add some untreated grass clippings or manure at about 1:4 with the leaves. If you can't get the grass/manure, go to the farm store and get some 34-0-0 or something similar and mix about 25 lbs in with the leaves as you build your pile, moistening everything as you go. Smaller piles will eventually compost, but they just take time, and don't really amount to much compost after everything breaks down.

Good luck, keep trying and you will find something that works. Usually, if there is dirt, something will grow (as evidenced by the tomato plant growing out of a crack in the sidewalk at a local restaurant).

Don't worry about your compost bin. It's not designed for producing a heat cycle. It's meant for passive composting of any organic matter. Egg shells will never break fully down in it and they don't have to. They are better when crushed but it's not an absolute must. They'll dissolve in the ground a lot faster due to normal acidity in rain. Also, don't overwater it. For passive composting, only needs to be slightly damp.

Martin

I had about a couple hundred aple trees in containers. The soil was beautiful, composted horse manure. But being above ground, they needed watering every couple days. Just a few seconds in each pot wouldn't do it. It tok me countless hours to keep them watered.

There is an art to the care of each type of plant. Bluebarries need soil with an acid ph. Tomatoes canget sick if you smoke in the garden, strawberries won't do well if their crown is too deep or not deep enough, etc.

Water, soil nutrients, soil ph, full sun and root space are all vital.

Everything points to not enough sun
 

Good advice also from Where I want to, you need to find out exactly how much sun you really have on the ground. This is something even experienced gardeners tend to overestimate. Mildew, fungus, dwindling plants are signs of not enough sun.

Your ag extension master gardener program is there to help you, you shouldn't have to become one yourself. Ask if you can have a visit for a site analysis. They can tell you exactly what varieties of everything you can grow.

Wow, there is a lot of GREAT advice here - y'all are so helpful! I especially appreciate that no one made me feel like an idiot. Not that I expected this group to from what I have read, but still...thank you for being kind to me.

I am really debating planting at least one of the blueberry bushes and also the raspberry and blackberry in the ground and just seeing what they do. I don't have much to lose. Do you think I should wait til spring or is it ok to transplant in the fall when they're dormant?

Are those $10-$12 ph meters Amazon sells good enough for checking my soil? The ones that look kinda like meat thermometers?

This feels like one giant experiment, but I'm determined to press on!

P.S. I'm adding to my compost and trying to fill the bin up - it's only like 2x4, not a huge bin. I checked it again yesterday after mixing it up earlier in the week and it is starting to really look like dark soil, like it's supposed to. Like I said, it was the eggshells that threw me off, but everything else has actually been breaking down. Hooray!