Ad news of my attitude in hiring help

fantasymaker · #21 10/29/12, 11:12 PM

#4 and #6 are killers.
like others have said no one has as much skin in the game as you.
#4 Dont expect me to come in for a full day and then send me home unpaid after a few hours because YOU didnt have as much work as you thoughtor days in a week etc.
Most that WILL work fulltime NEED to work full time.

oneokie · #22 10/30/12, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_sawing

I am at the point that I need to hire one to two people.
Setting down rules since I have had the experience of having to fire 12 people in the last three years that I have worked alone for the last while.
1 I no longer furnish lunch. It has always been apart of the work to sit down with a good hot lunch but no longer.
2 no early pay when you don,t have gas money to get to work you are out of a job
3 the third time your not here on time without a good reason your fired
4 when your here if you are not producing work that helps the farm or makes the farm money I don,t need you
5 if you make the farm extra money expect some of it as a bonus back to you
6 work as hard as I do
I know what I can do by myself and it has been difficult to get it across that your wage is based on how much extra profit I make for having you here and that is what you are worth. If I spend extra time in overshadowing you I am not producing.
It sounds like I am being hard but when you are stolen from and abused you develope an attitude. When I started hiring I loaned vehicle got the help extra jobs using my tools and acted like a father. The problem you can,t take the help behind tha wood shed and the only power that I have is to fire people.

My thinking is you have poor management skills. Firing 12 people in 3 years tells me you are picking from the wrong labor pool.

If your help isn't producing the way you think they should says that you are not planning adequately for short term interuptions in your work schedule.

Having done custom grain harvesting and hay bailing for years using hired help taught me that when you get a good employee, one needs to find or make enough work to keep them occupied enough hours to make it worthwhile to them to keep working for you.

Plowpoint · #23 10/30/12, 01:29 AM

We have a dairy farm and our turn-over rate is surprisingly low. We cannot afford to pay very well, but we can counter that by treating the workers well. A lot of it is looking out for each employee, and we have about a dozen of them right now.

A few highlights:

Our mechanic has a father and mother who have Alzheimer's. He is a good mechanic but needs to take care of his Mom and Dad, so he has incredible flexible hours, in fact he pretty much works when he wants. It sucks that we cannot always count on him to be there when things break, BUT we also know he will show back up at some point, and since we farm 24/7/365, that is his option as well. He loves it because he can do what he needs to at home, and yet always have a job and an income on the days he does work.

We got an older guy that cleans out the barn. He is steady, always on time, does a good job but is slow. He works 5 days a week and on the days he does not work, 2 younger kids do his job. They do a faster job better, because his back is bad and he cannot drive the tractors too quickly. It takes him an extra 45 minutes then the kids do...but he never breaks things, is always on time, doesn't whine and ultimately gets the job done. He is just glad to have a job.

We have a truck driver whose wife has some chemical issues. When he came to see us, he had no electricity in his house. Knowing he was a good driver, we got his electricity back on and helped him get reestablished in life. It was a chance we took, but he has repaid us with loyalty. When you help someone out, that no one else will, they tend to do that for you. He is a good, safe driver, is always where you tell him to be, and just has been an excellent worker.

The boys milking the cows do not get paid by the hour, but by the milking. If they want to lounge around in the break room, so be it. It is their time and they like being able to take a break when they want, yet know the cows have to be milked too. They do not need to be micro-managed, they know what has to be done, and do it, just when they feel like doing it. They like that freedom and do not take advantage of it. They also like a dairy farm with a break room, refrigerators, stoves, vending machines and other amenities that make it work-friendly.

So how does this work out?

The last guy that quit was over 2 years ago.
We have guys on this farm who have worked for us for over 20 years.
We are a Gold Standard farm for our high quality milk.
Even the people that have quit, often return because they like working for us.

And we show our appreciation. We seldom yell or scream at the workers, and often times we buy donuts, coffee and meals so that they know they are appreciated. All in all, we stay flexible with each employee, know their strengths and weaknesses, and work with them both; sometimes in corrective ways, and sometimes appreciative ways. But you have to do that today or you end up with lousy help, and that we just can't afford.

ChristieAcres · #24 10/30/12, 02:40 AM

Plowpoint, excellent post and no wonder you have loyal employees!

The kind of work the OP needs employees for is based on production, as in, getting the work done in a steady expedient manner. If I am reading him right.

For employees like that, you need self motivated type A,s who are physical workers. DH,s youngest DS is a heavy equipment operator, currently involved in the rebuilding and expansion of an existing marina. He gets paid the same hourly wage, but is the hardest worker on the crew. He will work until a job is done for that day, and stay working longer to complete it, without being asked. His boss is flat thrilled with this hardworking guy! Yes, a physical tough Type A. DH is one and so am I.

geo in mi · #25 10/30/12, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_sawing

I am at the point that I need to hire one to two people.
Setting down rules since I have had the experience of having to fire 12 people in the last three years that I have worked alone for the last while.
1 I no longer furnish lunch. It has always been apart of the work to sit down with a good hot lunch but no longer.
2 no early pay when you don,t have gas money to get to work you are out of a job
3 the third time your not here on time without a good reason your fired
4 when your here if you are not producing work that helps the farm or makes the farm money I don,t need you
5 if you make the farm extra money expect some of it as a bonus back to you
6 work as hard as I do
I know what I can do by myself and it has been difficult to get it across that your wage is based on how much extra profit I make for having you here and that is what you are worth. If I spend extra time in overshadowing you I am not producing.

It sounds like I am being hard but when you are stolen from and abused you develope an attitude. When I started hiring I loaned vehicle got the help extra jobs using my tools and acted like a father. The problem you can,t take the help behind tha wood shed and the only power that I have is to fire people.

Maybe you should just hire some mules. When they don't work exactly the way you want them to, you can just shoot 'em.

But sooner or later, the word will get out, and you won't even be able to scare up mules........ Not many people want to work for a hard..s. Forerunner is right. No lunch????? Good luck.

My opinion.

geo

just_sawing · #26 10/30/12, 07:11 AM

When I started hiring outside labor I made the mistake of not setting boundaries and that started the problem. Our first hire needed better benefits and after a year working for us we pulled some favors and help him get the job he still has where he has better insurance. We made the mistake of thinking that that worker was going to be the norm.
At the time I was not wanting to have full time but part time giving me latitude to do other work. Realize that as a sawmill owner when you are here 20 hours I have to put in 40. Logs have to be delivered ect.
I hired just the local that was satisfied with 20 or so. I thought I would end up with a retired person since I have everything set up some the heavy lifting is minimal. It didn't,t work out.
I had to harden up get strict with boundaries and here I am.
After the IRS stated because I did not fill out a form they would disallow 15k of employee wage paid I decided that the two last workers who were not doing even near what it takes to pay their wage were gone. I have worked all one for the most part and that is not bad.
My business is at a point that I could expand to probably 10employees full time with benefits but for now the opertunities are on hold and the one who I think is a great kid is going to be given a try.

just_sawing · #27 10/30/12, 07:21 AM

Plow point I agree with you whole hardedly.
The point that you make is that the people know what is expected and they do it for a wage.
In the start I was to vague and some people that just doesn't,t work.
I then was too trusting and when you hire someone you need to check them out somewhat.
Now up front where their wage comes from is out in the open. In a sawmill 5 cents from every foot of lumber pays the wage. If you bust butt and we turn out 4000 fett a day this week that is 200 dollars a day for wage to split up, but it you dog it break equipment for a smoke break and produce 800 feet that is 40 dollars a day. I pay a minimum wage because as the owner I know S happens and I will eat the wage when it does.

greg_n_ga · #28 10/30/12, 07:23 AM

I have never furnished or had furnished a meal unless it was for a job well done !! I have furnished many break drinks and biscuits, a small token goes a long way I have found !! When the employees figure out how they stand with you, they usually "police" themselves !! I think that being "hard heart" toward them causes rebellion from all !!

grandma12703 · #29 10/30/12, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneokie

My thinking is you have poor management skills. Firing 12 people in 3 years tells me you are picking from the wrong labor pool.

If your help isn't producing the way you think they should says that you are not planning adequately for short term interuptions in your work schedule.

Having done custom grain harvesting and hay bailing for years using hired help taught me that when you get a good employee, one needs to find or make enough work to keep them occupied enough hours to make it worthwhile to them to keep working for you.

I don't know if I agree with all that you said but your final comment about finding enought to keep them occupied to make it worthwhile I do agree with.

ronbre · #30 10/30/12, 07:45 AM

bless you for hiriing, as there are so many people out of work, looks like my son will have a job this week after 5 mo of looking (after 19 years at the same place he was let go)

jersey girl · #31 10/30/12, 08:21 AM

If you have any homeschoolers in your area and need younger workers, they are excellent. We have never had a problem with these kids, and in extra busy times, the parents will come work a few hours also. Great workers, you only have to explain things once, and the need little oversight.

FarmboyBill · #32 10/30/12, 10:53 AM

When I worked out. MANY times I had to do something else other than wha t I was hired for. I accepted that and did it. It wasnt usually a very long stint, just something that needed to be done, and I was available to do it. As long as the money was green and I was paid regulary, I didnt mind what I had to do TOO MUCH.
Nowadays, people have the idea that they was hired to do a certain job. IF there is a lapse of employment in that job, than thats not their fault, and they shouldnt be penelized by being made to do something else for awhile till their regular work again picks up.. I never had a paid lunch in 45yrs of working. I could go back to my old employer now IF I WANTED TO, and I may yet, BUT for now, Im adjusting to SS, and surviving, BARELY.

bja105 · #33 10/30/12, 06:48 PM

You get what you pay for.

DebM · #34 10/30/12, 06:59 PM

When I was growing up, a meal was part of the pay. I have friends who corporate farm, and although meals are no longer part of the compensation, they do bring in pizzas occasionally, or milkshakes for everybody for a break. They also have a hot tub they let employees use after work to help with stiff muscles. Minimum wage, but nice perks and dedicated employees.

Steve in PA · #35 10/30/12, 08:20 PM

I'd also add one other thing. The toolbox to be a worker is not the same toolbox to be a manager. It's a common mistake that regular businesses make to promote the best workers to a management position. Just because that person was able to make twice as many widgets as anyone else doesn't mean that they can lead others to produce more widgets.

After reading more of your posts maybe you need to find a foreman/shop manager more than more laborers. That may possibly free you up to do the part of the business that it sounds like you enjoy more?

I can't recommend this book enough if you have time to read it or even skim it.

Peter Drucker: The Effective Executive

mpwithem · #36 10/30/12, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

I'd also add one other thing. The toolbox to be a worker is not the same toolbox to be a manager. It's a common mistake that regular businesses make to promote the best workers to a management position. Just because that person was able to make twice as many widgets as anyone else doesn't mean that they can lead others to produce more widgets.

I wanted to refer to the first part of your post - too many people don't understand this. A manager requires a specific type of skill and often times people think that when somebody is in a job long enough, they automatically have the skill to be a manager. Another thing to remember is not everybody fits in a specific culture. Each company/place has their own culture and when you try to fit somebody within a culture they don't fit in, it's not going to work.

Pay attention to not only who you hire but what you want out of that person in the long run. If you're looking for somebody to eventually become THE manager, you need to be sure the person has those qualities that are untrainable. If I'm being too vague, let me know!

||Downhome|| · #37 10/30/12, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

I'd also add one other thing. The toolbox to be a worker is not the same toolbox to be a manager. It's a common mistake that regular businesses make to promote the best workers to a management position. Just because that person was able to make twice as many widgets as anyone else doesn't mean that they can lead others to produce more widgets.

After reading more of your posts maybe you need to find a foreman/shop manager more than more laborers. That may possibly free you up to do the part of the business that it sounds like you enjoy more?

I can't recommend this book enough if you have time to read it or even skim it.

Peter Drucker: The Effective Executive

partialy right Steve, but if you don't know how to make widgets how can you be a good supervisor?

I have to disagree the best worker in a common business model is not promoted.
To valuable on the Floor training the Chattel, nope some uppity trained in running things but has no experience in the business or life gets the Job!
Yup been there,done that. Let them drown in their own Blood...
whole reason we are twirling in the toilet!

If a guy can produce widgets wicked like, yes he may lack leadership skills.
But he knows how to do the Job,someone needs to shape the other side.
or harness it in a proper fashion.

I call it lack of fore sight!

oregon woodsmok · #38 10/31/12, 01:34 PM

I thought of this discussion yesterday.

It was my son's day off and he and I were driving into town. We drove by his work and he says "Hey, they aren't supposed to be putting new tires on my truck" and he turns around and he goes back.

On his own time, no pay for it, about 30 minutes to straighten out a mistake. 28 tires at $500 per tire. $14,000 he saved his employers.

It made me wonder how many employees would have said, Too bad. I'm not paying for it and it is my day off." I suspect quite a few of them.

ChristieAcres · #39 10/31/12, 02:02 PM

DS was hired to work at a Marriott Courtyard Hotel. He gets free breakfast and they get the benefit of his appreciation. If they treat him right, they score in getting an incredible employee. He is well suited for this position, excels in conflict resolution, and is management material (as they say). Providing a meal to my DS is like giving him a present! He was stoked...

Steve in PA · #40 10/31/12, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||Downhome||

partialy right Steve, but if you don't know how to make widgets how can you be a good supervisor?

I have to disagree the best worker in a common business model is not promoted.
To valuable on the Floor training the Chattel, nope some uppity trained in running things but has no experience in the business or life gets the Job!
Yup been there,done that. Let them drown in their own Blood...
whole reason we are twirling in the toilet!

If a guy can produce widgets wicked like, yes he may lack leadership skills.
But he knows how to do the Job,someone needs to shape the other side.
or harness it in a proper fashion.

I call it lack of fore sight!

I think what came across isn't what I meant. Where I work has and is trying the "hire management straight from college" approach. It's a disaster because they get yesmen who won't question bad direction from above yet have no idea the processes they are trying to manage.

They've also tried the "promote the best worker" approach which worked better but still not the best method.

It's just a different skillset to be the best do'er than it is to be a leader. See Michael Jordan since retirement from basketball.

As a small business owner you have to do both and I respect that greatly.