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~Building~ a Freezer
I was recently following the postings on upright freezers compared to chest freezers... I've wondered though ~ Has anyone ever built a walk-in freezer? I remember seeing a link once to a product that would aid in a home-made walk-in refrigerator (it used a standard window AC unit), but I've never seen anyone build a home-made walk-in freezer. Is this possible? Does anyone know how or have examples? I'd think that with a few key components, a little knowhow, and alottalotta insulation it would be possible. People's thoughts?
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here is the link for a cool bot
Store It Cold with CoolBot! I would like one also but I believe it would be cheaper to look around for a used walkin |
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Goolge "homebuilt freezer" to see some thoughts and examples |
The only difference would be the refrigeration unit. I don't think a window AC would work on a freezer......( I have a homebuilt walk-in cooler using a Coolbot control and a window AC...and it works fine, as a cooler, down to 34 degrees )....I think you would have to step on up to a commercial refrigeration setup for a freezer.....but the box is the same.
The other question is WHY would you want to, unless you have a real need for a whole lot of freezer ? We have 2 chest freezers ( small, about 9cuft each ), and two uprights ( 15 and 18cuft ). In the fall, when we kill several pigs, have garden stuff in, and maybe kill a beef, we use all 4. But our constant goal is to get down to 3, and then 2. ( right now, 2 are running ). Makes way more sense to be able to lower your use as you eat, plus we would mostly have a spare in case one dies. |
Ya, the coolbot won't put the temps below freezing. It'll put temps a degree or so above ~ but not below. @Andy ~ the reason I'd want to is that it would combine the best of all worlds: The ease of finding products, massive storage capacity, adjustability in insulation ahead of time, etc etc... I would just love to have a 6' x 8' unit, two foot shelves on either side with a two foot walkway eight feet long, capable of holding just about anything I threw at it without having cold or hot spots. Something with a full foot of polyicynene or similar insulation in the walls... but, at the same time, something that didn't cost ten thousand dollars to acquire ~ something that I could simply create on site rather than have shipped in. Finally, I'd think that with the right kind of motor, such an application could be done to achieve a fair amount of energy savings over a series of chest freezers or uprights. But just my thoughts. I'd read on one site that a special cooling unit, condenser, evaporator might be necessary, but I've wondered (with enough insulation) if the components to a standard freezer couldn't be used?
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Cool bots are ok. I preferr the unit that you can service that come from the dealer you buy your walk in from. I am rusty on all my refrigration stuff but I have built walk in units. You must measure your cubic footage and get your unit to match. I recall that much. We had walk ins when I was growing up. (23 years in the resturant business)and they were great. Have a drain where when you defrost or there is a problem you can drain the water. The ones we had were indoors. There are ones that go outside. Choose carefully Grasshopper.
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The heart of a cooler or freezer is the cooling unit. The energy costs to un it and the possible losses or costs if it's not dependable are the big deals. You want something cheap to run and dependable as all get-out.
You want a good door that seals up tight, keeps the cold in & the heat out. Beyond that whatever cooler or freezer you have is just a big box with lots of insulationon it, can build it yourself for sure? 'Homemade' cooling unit sounds like a disaster to me tho for the energy costs and possibly reliability issues? My aunt had a walk in cooler and walk in freezer in the basement back in the 60's. She also had 14 kids.... Walk in coolers were quite common for those who raised eggs back in the 60's and 70's. Was at an auction last month, they sold the cooler door, don't think it brought $5. Looked good shape, probably add new weatherstripping. Have seen 2-3 whole coolers sell over the years too. I'd guess the mchanical is not so effiecnt on those older units, and finding real Freon to charge it would be spendy... --->Paul |
I have installed several coolers and one freezer. The ones that I installed were ready made and all I needed to do was put them together. All of them had a defrosters that would heat up the coils for a short time and let water drain off outside the cooler and freezer. the freezer stayed around 0 % and the coolers stayed around 35%. to get temperature they had a large compressor. Why wast money building a freezer that won't get cooled enough. If you are building a walk in cooler that only gets to 40% that is one thing but a freezer needs to get to 0% and stay their.
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@Old Vet - I'm assuming when you're typing the percentage thingies you mean the degrees, but I don't quite understand why a freezer would have to go down to zero degrees... I'd think that under 32 degrees would be sufficient for the fahrenheit scale for water to freeze? Don't get me wrong ~ I've never done a single one of these, and my experience with refrigeration is almost non-existent. That being said, I've got substantial experience with insulation (fiberglass, foam of all sorts, cellulose) as well as air sealing, and it's been my experience that the more insulation that can be added (to a point) the smaller the cooling unit needs to be. And thus is the conundrum ~ could the "unit" to a standard freezer, of whatever type, be used to cool an obscenely insulated freezer, and would this freezer be more energy efficient than simply a set of chest freezers? I really think I want to try it, if only for the experience, lol! =)
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I've read that one of the trickiest parts is the door... that although most other parts are relatively affordable, the door is the most expensive. I've thought about, in doing this, having a dual-door setup (much as a mud-room serves in houses in the north). Basically a foam core door entering into one very small room followed by another room, and even then this might be overkill... but it's my thoughts...
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[QUOTE=Warwalk;6212331 but I don't quite understand why a freezer would have to go down to zero degrees... I'd think that under 32 degrees would be sufficient for the fahrenheit scale for water to freeze?![/QUOTE]
Nope. You need to be down around zero for a freezer to work right. I won't get into details 'cause I'll explain them poorly, but you need to be there or forgetaboutit. Freezer has to be around zero or it's not a freezer. (My poor try - open the door or bring in unfrozen stuff, and you'd pull other things up above freezing, before everything returned to freezing. Bad deal.) The double door airlock sounds good, but.... the little tiny room would need to be well insulated and will be cooled down, so it is a total drag on the whole cost/time/room needed and will waste resources. Need to concentrate on one good, really good door. The mini entrey room becomes real innefficient. Spend the resources on a good door design and more insulation of the one room. --->Paul |
Seems to me that if you want dependability, you would have to go with a new freezing unit, not a questionable one from from an old(or maybe two or more) unit. At that point you might save a little in construction costs, but again the door would be the main cost feature---might as well go with a purchased commercial unit. The more you have stored, the greater the losses if the freezing unit goes bad.......
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At a friends restaurant his walk in's really do the job . . .
But those compressors spend a huge amount of time running . . . My point is, that when / if the grid goes down you will need a pretty hefty generator (lots of fuel) to maintain your cooler/freezer. Where as good super insulated chest freezers------left unopened-----can go far longer without power. Take TnAndy's example, he can power each of his units individually with a smaller (more fuel efficient) generator........ At my friends restaurant he would need a very hefty 10K gen . .at the least..... just something to think about................ |
One of my friends here built a walk in and it works pretty well. We've had as many as 6 sides of beef in it at once and it stayed cool. I could ask him for the details on how he did it but I think you can find everything you need to know on Google.
I will however ask what pit falls he would avoid next go round. |
If all you want to do is freeze water and if it doesn't matter how long it takes then yes if you get it down to 30 degrees it will freeze water. But if you are doing something else it will not be enough. For a freezer to work for say for meat it must be around 0 degrees to freeze all the meat not just the outside. Even storing Popsicle in a 30 degree temperature it will be soft and mushy.
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My door came off an old cooler/freezer unit that was being replaced at a school. I asked about it, and was offered the whole thing, as it was going to the dump. I looked at the panels, which were 46"x 84", 4" foam with aluminum skin on both sides, and couldn't figure a way to use them in the space I wanted to dedicate to my walk in cooler in the canning kitchen/meat room I built on the back of the garage.....so I took just the door unit, and built the rest as described above. The door was a 'unit'....mounted in the jambs, and had a header pc.....it was designed to just lock into the side panels...so I just mounted the whole thing in a wood framed box, then used 4" of polycyanurate foam in the inside. http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...D550/ry%3D400/ The door itself is 3-4" thick, foam inside, and aluminum skin out. Came with handle, thermometer, light switch ( junction box on the inside ). http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...D550/ry%3D400/ The COOLBOT guy recommends you also insulate the floor well, and the original cooler unit had the same type of panel as the walls/roof for the floor, but I just tiled the floor, with a drain, and didn't insulate under it.....because my plan is to only use the cooler about 2-4 weeks out of the year, just for chilling fresh killed hog, deer, cow, and the rest of the year, it will simply sit unused.....so I didn't go for the floor insulation. I simply wanted a cooler so I wouldn't be at the mercy of mother nature for cooling my meat. |
If you could build it under the ground, like a root cellar, heavily insulate it.
it could be run very efficiently. would not go through massive temp swings. As for doors I would have it on top and stairs going down. Same concept as a chest. the cold air does not roll out on you. The Insulation I would make a foot thick, 2" foam,1" dead air space,1" foam,1" dead air. 1 sheet of 2" and five 1" per 4'x 8' wall section. I would stagger them like you do brick work. cover with PolyMax Board or similar. use a polyurethane calk at the seems. I've given it a good bit of thought. If you planed on hanging carcases you could have a second door and a hoist mounted above. I would be doing this in the pole barn and think doing it this way would save me floor space. But I think I would want a compressor that could make a freezer work. separate a smaller section for the freezer. I also think have the controls set up to allow a fan system to take over when out side temps are right would be a good thing. perhaps I'm just over thinking it. But I think it would be a good thing to have. could loose the fridge in the house and replace it with a Ice box. |
There is a big difference, between a walk-in cooler and walk-in freezer, which the latter would be horrendous costly to operate.
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Having spent part of this weekend butchering a deer with a high temp of 87, I would be tickled to death to make a cool room that would get the temp down to the low 40s.......
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They make those tractor trailers with freezer units. I wonder how much one of those would cost used.
I'd love to have a walk in cooler. A walk in freezer, not so much. There is a lot of space in a walk in freezer that would be wasted space. I'd rather have a couple of big chest freezers. The chest freezers are pretty economical to run, and I can reach everything inside there. The colder the temperature, the better meat stores. It stores longer and stays in better condition if the temperatures are really low. I just cooked ground elk that is almost 3 years old and it is in perfect condition, just like fresh. You can't keep meat in that condition in the freezer on the fridge because it just doesn't stay cold enough. |
Water freezes at 30º but sugar sugar at about 10º lower. And then you get slushie. You need 0º to get sugared items frozen solid. Remember there is sugar in blood, also. If all you're freezing is water, then you're okey doke. If not, back to the drawing board. :)
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I found 4by8freezer panels for $25 a piece. I am planning to build a dry kiln out of them but am considering a butcher house. I would be able to age my meat pretty easy and I have found that aging is the biggest difference between butcher house and farm.
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I think Id buy a used REFER truck. Take the bed off and resell what was left of the truck.
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@Rambler and Chickenmommy, y'all made some good points about why the temps would need to be dropped to zero, and I better understand that part now. For me, What I've considered, is nearly a foot foam insulation on all sides (anything but fiberglass or cellulose, I was thinking some type of foam board or 2 lb foam). This should provide an R-Value of anywhere from R-60 to R-100 (depends on whether I stuck to exactly a foot of insulation or so). Just as with homes that use spray foam in the walls (where a lower tonnage HVAC unit can be used), I'd think that a smaller freezer unit could be used for a room if the insulation was right. I suppose the tricky part would be the additional load on moisture removal from the air. This would actually be a pretty cool project ~ I think that the actual structure could be done for less than $1000, and at that point the experiment would begin ~ salvaging the cooling unit and other "guts' from a freezer and seeing if this could adequately create a freezer environment. The only difficult part would be finding a refrigerator / freezer guy that was willing to play along and see what happened, but I think it could be interesting! I was thinking of lining the whole thing with vinyl flooring or similar, possibly with a layer of 1/4" plywood on the actual floor. Hrmmm....
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As far as a door, I'd probably use a standard foam core door, and if I really wanted to get wild and crazy, I'd put a layer of foam board on the back of that, shaved down along its' edge so it could swing open without difficulty.
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Our butcher has a walk in freezer unit it cost $600 a month to run, they switched to a whole bunch of chest and upright freezers workeds way better for them on the energy bill. They use the walk in cooler to hang the meat it's still the best way for cooling.
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The average "reefer", uses about a gallon of diesel fuel per hour, to operate and that for cooling.
Better be some mighty tasty beef, in there. ;) |
I have a walk in freezer and a walk in cooler, and I can see my electrical bill jump when I run them
a cooler many times is with out a floor, the freezer has a insulated floor, my cement floor has foam under it, so it has some insulation, but a freezer needs to be completely tight, needs a defrost heater, many times a a door heater so the gasket does not freeze, the cooler may or may not have defrost heater, the freezer will freezer things fairly fast, as it has air movement, in it, and things can be spread out, I bought mine used and it has a new evaporator, and at the time (the original price used was $1000) and the evaporator was another $1000, they are both three phase, the cooler I bought for $35, and it worked, after a few years of part time use I did have to replace the compressor on it, coolers are easer to find than freezers, years ago I did help build a walk in cooler, we had a in ground room off of a kitchen for a camp, we foamed it and then put some type of panels on the wall, this was in the 80's and I do not remember what the walls were, the door was a used door, and the compressor was bought on an auction, many AC companies will not work on walk in coolers or freezers, (not that the principals are different, but the controls and charging can be different than the AC, so you may want to find out who works on them and what the charge is for things, unless your capable to doing your own refergeration work, |
I see used reffer units from trucks pretty cheep . Not the semitrailers but the smaller10 to 28 foot ones. Ive seen them recently on ebay.
They way to do it is to buy a $5000 truck with one on it and then resell the truck. |
I have seen used walk-ins, both refrige and freezer units sold for nearly nothing at auctions.
It is amazing that a $20,000 unit in like-new condition can be bought for $100, providing you get it moved within 48 hours. |
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