Guns on our farm???

HEY!!!! Come on you guys..you are overlooking a basic thing. Some people are just not comfortable with guns of any kind and shouldn't have them. There are other ways to solve the different problems(whether two-legged, four-legged or no-legged. LOL) that may arise. I have a number of guns and wouldn't be without them but for the most part I do use other ways to handle things.

Some people can't handle and shouldn't have dogs either. They are wonderful and I can't live without them, but I recognize that you can have a farm, ranch and/or homestead without a dog and many people do. I get upset when the only answer to a problem is "get a dog!" Wrong!

So, keep that in mind. Just because you feel comfortable with firearms(and or dogs, LOL) and feel them essential that is not true for everyone. I have neighbors all around me who don't own a firearm and have never needed one. Others think those people are nuts! LOL

For all intents and purposes I am on my own and I like to be ready for whatever may come down the pike. To that end I have three handguns, a shotgun and a .22 rifle. But I was raised with them.

As for wildlife..come on! What makes you think that anyone who is uncomfortable with a firearm...or very inexperienced , could hit anywhere near a marauding coyote or feral dog killing their live stock? or Protect themselves from and very unlikely attack from something without shooting themselves or someone else in the process? Pul-lease! Animals move so fast...no way!

You make it sound easy to just pop off a shot and Voila!...problem solved. But how about consideration about how far that bullet or shot can travel? What's in it's path? More of your stock? Your dog? Your car? Your neighbor? Your kid?

As for having to protect yourself from a wildlife attack. Check the stats on how many people are killed or even hurt by wildlife each year. Then check the stats for some other deaths and injuries from lightning strikes, bee stings, the family dog and the biggie...CAR ACCIDENTS! The stats say you or your kids will be killed or injured by the family fido than any wildlife!

So...can firearms be a handy thing? Yes, for those who are used to them and have the right instincts to know when and where you can let loose with a bullet and when or where you cannot.

Do not feel they are something you HAVE to have. That is not true.

LQ

__________________
" Live in the Sunshine,
Swim the Sea,
Drink the Wild Air"

Ralph Waldo Emerson

"There is no such thing as bad weather, only inadequate clothing." D. Duck

You may go thru your whole life and never need a gun but if you really need one and don't have one, you probably won't be around to regret it.

__________________
Liberals have the ultimate plan for dealing with illegal aliens. Make America so crappy no one will want to come here.

I would suggest starting off by taking a hunting/gun safety course.Buy a 12 gauge shotgun at walmart and see if you feel comfortable with it.If you feel ok and like shooting maybe step up to a rifle.

I agree with the others. Take a safety course. However, you won't learn near enough from one or two classes. It takes a short time to learn the basic mechanics, but many years to become knowledgable and proficient. I'm lucky, my training started at home when I was just a little tike. Taught my daughters and son. By age four they knew the basics and were shooting live ammo. Never had to lock up my guns and never had a problem with my children getting into them. That's how REAL education works. They also have been taught other types of defense. You can not always have your gun with you without being arrested, prosecuted and persecuted for exercising your God given rights.

They are necessary! On two occasions my wife would have been raped and probably murdered, if she had not had her handgun with her. We have both used our guns to protect ourselves and family, both in town and out. That includes animal and criminal attack.

No one gun is perfect for all situations. All guns do not operate the same way. Learn the safe and proper way to use/carry your weapons of choice. Then spend time learning as many other firearms as you can. You'll never know, when you might have to use a gun your not familier with. It could save your life.

While there are other guns I would choose if money were not an object, these are (IMO) some good choices.

Mossberg 12 Gauge, Model 500:
Pro's : Affordable, strong, safety catch is user friendly and it's reliable if properly maintained. Additional barrels may be purchased and are affordable. I recommend you buy one with a short barrel (18 & 1/2", 20" or 24") and an extended magazine. Short barrels handle quicker in close quarters and when time is critical. Be sure you have a magazine plug, so you'll be legal when hunting. Regulations vary according to jurisdiction. Longer hunting barrels may be purchased later.

Con's: Safety catch will sometimes vibrate off. Have a gunsmith secure with the correct type of adhesive. Pump must be moved forward forcefully to ensure the bolt is fully brought to battery and locked in. The Mossberg is designed to NOT fire if the bolt is not locked into battery! Learn to do this! Failure to do so can get you killed! Using the pistol grip will make any shotgun much harder to control. I never use it. Learn to tuck the full stock along your side if firing from the hip.

Additional: Ammo is more important than gauge, caliber or type of firearm! Research, experiment and learn the facts. Do not go by what some good old boy's grandpa used. Ammo is a science that evolves and can be complicated. Basic's: Slugs are for deer sized game and drug addicts that won't stop even after being shot many times. Buckshot: Try not to use it inside, unless you have no reasonable choice. For inside, use #7 & 1/2 birdshot. At 10 ft. it will make a fist sized hole in a human. It may penetrate a sheet rock wall (most things will), but not as likely and it will not go as far as a bullet or a slug if it does penetrate. The majority of police departments use 00 buckshot for defense. If extra penetration is needed, use copper or nickle plated shot. It also, holds a tighter pattern. If you feel you must use buckshot for deer hunting, use plated shot and get within 40 yards. Slugs and bullets are better for deer. Shotguns are used every season for hunting hogs and bear. I don't recommend it, unless you use specialty slugs. Hogs and bears will eat you! use bullets. Strong ones! Caution: When moving around corners, be aware that experienced criminals will wait for your barrel to come around and then grab it. Not good!

Will continue,

Mike

Speaking of Mossberg 500 reliability, that reliability is about nil when one uses longer shells I’ve found. I’m speaking from the 20 gauge experience not 12. So many times I wanted to beat my piece of @#%$ against a tree because of a jammed shell. One really needs to stick with the shorter shells for whatever gauge used with these guns.

Concerning pump guns, two plain actions are much more smoother, faster, lighter,…well, everything you can think of.


I like talking guns

Ruger Carbine, .22 Long Rifle, Model 10-22:
Pro's: Reliable, strong, accurate, box magazine,standard model is affordable (synthetic stock, bull barrel is more accurate, but more expensive). Lots of after market accessories are available. Practice ammo is affordable. Recommend sighting in and using premium ammo for "real work".

Con's: Can not think of any, except that semi-auto's are not what I usually recommend for beginners. This is a good one to start with, however. Also, the most reliable .22 rimfires, tend to be semi-auto's. Other designs seem to have a lot of extractor problems. Not a great choice for defense. Not for animals larger than rabbits. Larger animals can be taken, but I've seen it fail too many times.

Winchester or Marlin Lever Action Carbine, 30-30 Cal.:
Pro's: Reliable, strong, quick handling, powerful enough for deer, small black bear & small hogs, fast to reload (with practice), moderate recoil, new models have a cross bolt safety, affordable.

Con's: Difficult to release safety while shouldering gun. Gun was designed without a cross bolt safety. It was carried on half cock, and thumbed to full cocked while shouldering. NEVER trust any safety, ESPECIALLY a half cock! I only use the half cock when I have the gun in my hands and under control. Remember, the real safety is the one between your ears! Not as accurate as other designs. Good enough for 100 -150 yards for deer, some can stretch it to 200 yards. For small bears/hogs, keep inside 75 yards. 50 is better. Range is limited due to moderate velocity. Also, groups will open up too much at longer ranges. Need small hands to place fingers inside lever. Suggest oval lever, as in TV & movies: The Rifleman (Chuck Conners), Stagecoach & True Grit (John Wayne)

Additional: Winchester is smoother to operate and less likely to bobble a round going into the chamber. Marlin is usually more accurate. If large bears/hogs, moose or elk are possible targets, buy a .45/70 cal. from Marlin. Use Premium ammo and remember, it has greater recoil. Range and accuracy, similar to .30-30, but with more arch in trajectory with some loads. If less power is needed, both companies make lever actions in revolver calibers. They have less recoil, range and power. Can interchange ammo if using the same caliber sidearm. Not for hunting or defense against large dangerous animals! In the larger calibers, it can be done at VERY close range. Not something the novice should attempt!


Will continue,

Mike

Cedar,
I always use 2 & 3/4" shells in my Mossberg, even though I have a 3" chamber. I never found a need for 3" or longer shells in 12 gauge. My shotguns pattern better with Federal 2 & 3/4" shells. I only use 3" shells in my 20 gauge SKB over/under (choked: skeet #1 & skeet #2, 26" barrels) for duck shooting. You should see the quides eyes pop open when after the other guys (shooting 30" barrelled, 3 & 1/2" mag., 12 gauges) miss and I raise up and drop two birds. Equipment never beats experience, knowledge and attitude! Really messes with them when they realize I'm not wearing my glasses. Don't tell anybody, but I'm far sighted.

As for smoothness of action, speed, and ease of use, I prefer Browning and Winchester pump shotguns. Over/unders are my favorite though. But in the above post, price is a priority.

I like to talk guns too,

Mike

MY opinion as to the best pump shotgun out there is still the old Ithaca Featherlight model 37. The action on it is a dream…they must have some sort of patent on it because nothing else even comes close. They made quite a bit of them, but these things are climbing in price because the secret is out…well not really “out” but newer generations are recognizing the gun and stepping away from bulky semi-autos.

http://www.ithacagun.com/experience/...ooster%202.jpg

http://www.ithacagun.com/experience/.../greenhead.jpg


PS: I have no relation to these photos...

We found we need a Shotgun, and my British made .22 Pellet rifle. We do not use the .22 Rifle because it will travel to far (Way to many homes and Barns close by).

If I may offer this advise,,, to anyone that is not shot at all or has not shot in a long while,, find your local range and practice/ take lessons. That way you get used to handling your Gun properly. Remember safety first.

Walmart has some Shot guns for good prices,, they are not fancy but they work well.

__________________
Shari

Handgun: .357 mag., Smith & Wesson, Model 686, 4" barrel.

Pro's: May safely use .38 special or .357 mag. ammo as needed, reliable, strong, safe, accurate, fits most hands, stainless steel. With proper ammo, may be used for small - medium sized game and defense against humans and animals up to about 100 or so lbs. Practical range, up to 100 lbs., 50 yds. or less. Up to 50 lbs., 100 yds., depending on ammo and ability of shooter. Has the best record for defense against humans, depending on ammo. Speed loaders and speed strips are easy to find. Quality holsters are too.

Con's: Marginal for deer, too weak for consistant kills on bears and hogs. Small hogs can be taken, with proper ammo at close range with perfect shot placement. Have tree handy when the 600 lb. boar comes after you for shooting his baby brother!

Addition: Revolvers are safer and easier for the beginner to learn. I love semi-auto's, but not for the novice.

More opinion:
Novices should not purchase used guns. Even the most experienced of shooters can miss something on a used gun that can cause an injury later. At the least, have a professional gunsmith check it out before you buy it. The small inspection fee could well save your life.
Many other firearms could be used as well and there are certainly better choices. I tried to suggest guns that are safe, reliable, strong, accurate and are attainable for the person making a moderate wage. They are not my first choices, but the very best choices are very expensive. It should be stated that since your going to bet your life and the lives of your family on this, you need to purchase the finest firearms and accessories you can afford. Then add to your collection as you go.
It's hard to choose the first one. The 12 gauge or the .22 rimfire would see more use. The .357 mag. is easier to carry, thus keeping it ready to deploy, but takes longer for most people to obtain proficiency. If confronted by large predator, then one of the centerfire carbines would be needed. Also, what happens when one of you needs a gun and the other one has it. Another thing, I almost got myself mauled by a wounded racoon one time. He was almost to my leg, when my .22 cal. carbine ran out of ammo. I was not missing. I hit him on the move, 13 out of 15 rounds. Five in the lungs. This is a good example of why high capacity magazines are needed. (Thanks alot Clinton) I escaped injury, by drawing my .22 cal. semi - auto pistol and putting four quick shots into his head. I had to change hands with my carbine, swivel clockwise and swing my right leg away from him as I drew my pistol and shot. It was very fast and if I had not been armed with a back-up gun, I would have been seriously injured. I possibly could have bled to death, as I was alone in the swamp, 3 miles from the road and my car. Guns are like money, no such thing as too much or too many! To tell you everything I know about guns, ammo and defense would take volumes. That's not bragging, I've been acquiring knowledge of these issues for over 40 years. Even though I have a certified expert rating in handgun markmanship with the state of Louisiana, I consider myself an amateur.
I hope I've been some help to you. Just remember, no one person knows it all. Learn everything you can and encourage your loved ones to learn as well. Heck, we did not even get to self defense law. That can be complicated too.

Keep asking questions and good luck,

Mike

Thought of something else. Between the government and the discount chains the traditional gun stores are being pushed out of business. Since the 1960's the government has driven up the cost of doing business with every gun control law they pass. Most people don't realize that in order to pay for all the licensing, record keeping and to stay in compliance, the gun stores have to charge more for the guns than most people can afford to pay.

The big discount chains can order 20,000 rifles, all in the same caliber. The manufactures can give them a much lower price when they order that many. The chain can then sell the rifles for less than the gun store's wholesale price and still make a profit. Ever notice, that after J.C. Penny, Sear's and others spent years putting gun stores out of business, they quit selling guns? Has everyone noticed that after the Brady Law went into effect, Walmart quit selling handguns? Now Walmart is eliminating rifles and shotguns from their stores, starting in the states with the tuffest gun laws.

Remember, the chain stores won't repair your gun or add accessories for you. When you purchase from most gun stores and bring the gun back to them for repairs or accessories, they give you a break on the price. Lets all support our local gun stores and keep this tradition alive. With every lost gun store, our enemies get one step closer to their goal. Kind of hard to tell the tyrant no when your hands are empty.

Think about it,

Mike

From a person born and raised in the country.......
I would recommend being armed...
a critter gun (22) And something for protection, 357, or 38 special, a shotgun 12 or 20 gauge for wide pattern,,,If you want to hunt bigger game, (deer, elk, etc..) 30-30, 30-06.

Please take safety classes no matter what you get.

I guess it depends on what kind of animals you have there you might check with the local animal control office to see if they know or the state game and fish office.that would at lest let you know what to look for in a firearm

I never owned a gun before moving to the farm, but I bought a lil Marlin .22 long rifle with scope for $99 brand new on sale, and I have found it to be useful. I once buried a third of my goatherd in a single day after a pack of dogs dug under the fence. Dogs on my place these days don't get close enough to do that anymore.

It's still not fun for me to kill any living thing. But it is at times necessary.

Maintenance on the lil Marlin has been minimal. Clean it every so often.

I have since been given my great-grandfather's black powder shotgun (not useable) and an old Remington deer rifle. They look good in the rack.

Gypsy-
We're in central ME, too, and I just decided this week to haul out and clean the .22 after my neighbor saw a pack of coyotes checking out my broiler pens the other night. My farm is in-town, so I can't even imagine what the large vermin deal is farther out in the country.
I also have a neighbor dog who took an interest in the laying hens last summer-a psycho huskie/something mix. He's looking at a pellet in the arse if he comes back here. So far, chasing him across the field at 35 miles an hour with my 4-barrel 3/4 ton seemed to do the trick. Course, the neighbors think I'm a little nuts, but at least they still have a crazier dog to help them keep perspective.

Uncle Henry's has a million guns for cheap, and I find most people are willing to trade for just about anything.

Gypsy, Is a gun necessary?? Is your car / truck necessary? What about a shovel or hoe. A gun is a tool just like any other. Quiet often, if you need a gun, you need it right then. You don't have time to run to wally world and pick one up. Banish your ignorance! Take the safety courses. Learn all you can. Buy yourself a .22 and practice, practice, practice! A firearm in the hands of an ignorant person is more dangerous than a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car.

I'll never forget the time that I stumbled across a young raccoon dying of rickets years ago as I was walking down to my parents' pond to do some fishing. It was too weak to even shake off the swarm of flies covering it's eyes and ears.

Thank God I had my rifle sitting on the front porch.

I also remember a time when I was going out plinking with friends (shooting at old cans for tagets). About 15 feet from the side of the road, I heard what sounded like an angry goat bleating. It was a doe that had been hit by a car, probably the night before. It's back legs were paralyzed and all it could do was trash around and bleat. It wasn't bleeding, so basically she was just laying there waiting to die of thirst.

Again, Thank God I had a rifle.

With a daughter in the house who will be a toddler soon, I am honestly more worried about safety around my many power tools, which do not have trigger locks or require ammunition. Just a bunch of spinning blades.

My compound miter saw probably needs to be cleaned more often than my guns do. I would say that the cost, risk, usefulness and responsibility of owning a rifle isn't too different from a circular saw.

I would reccomend researching the gun laws of your location as well. <A HREF="http://www.packing.org">Packing.Org</A> is an excellent resource to find out the gun laws in your area, whether or not you are interested in carrying.

I believe it is my duty to protect the life that God has given me, as well as the lives of those He has entrusted to me (my wife, future children). A man is no gentleman, if he cannot or will not protect those he is responsible for. The best means that I know of is to have a firearm immediately available. It is a huge responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I would say more, but then I'd be ranting

Bob in Jax