220 Volt Wire Run Info Needed

I'm not sure that twisted 6 gauge cable can be pulled through conduit. Assembling conduit around the cable might be the only way to have it in conduit.

What exactly is the danger in assembling condiut around wire?

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with sliding wire into any conduit as you are installing it. I frequently work alone and have no other choice. Just remember to follow my instructions on the glue issue, and you will be fine. As for any claim that it's a code issue, well I would have to politely disagree. Can't imagine where it would be in any code, or why. The pipe and the wire are correctly installed, who cares how you did it? As for pulling any wire through a conduit, assuming that it is correctly sized, and the proper equipment is available, anything is possible. I have pulled wire with everything imaginable, including electric winches, Jeeps, line trucks, and half a school bus worth of electricians. Whatever it takes.

..............He's asking IF the 10 ga.Wire is big enough to handle the current Load as configured ! I'd say NO......atleast for the 5hp. compressor because that single load demands many amps for start UP ! I believe he had a ? about his ground(s) as well ! , fordy

I got lucky enough to start my career in the early eighties, and there were a small handful of some of very old electricians working with a large company I was with. I heard their stories of bringing the first wiring to homes in the teens and twenties, when you pulled wires through existing gas lantern piping to get light into bedrooms and other areas. Apparently, from what they said, for the next few decades the only conduit available was Ridgid, which is basically very similar to galvanized plumbing pipe. At that point it wasn't hot dip galvanized, it was coated with a flat green enamel. Later it was galvanized as a standard practice. This was followed by EMT, or electrical metallic tubing, a very thin galvanized pipe with no threads. EMT it joined with several types of connectors and is generally used indoors and above ground. There is another product similar to ridgid called IMC, which is a thinner, less expensive version of ridgid. It's still bent, threaded and installed the same way as the heavy stuff. Prior to the availability of PVC conduit most underground conduit was galvanized ridgid. Now it's pretty rare to see it in the ground, unless it's required for a very specific reason. It's expensive, takes specialized tools and skills to install correctly, and if you are running the big stuff, (3", and 4") it quickly gets mighty tiring.

Will site proper reference when I get a chance to locate it but this will do for now.

CONDUIT INSTALLATION In previous sections we have discussed types of conduits and the cutting, threading, and bending of conduit. Now, we will cover the requirements for installing the different types of conduit and how conductors should be pulled into them. Several general requirements apply to all types of conduit installation: All raceways must be installed as a complete system before any conductors are pulled into them. In other words, the "run" of conduit, as described previously, including conduit, fitting, and supports, must be complete before the conductors are installed. A run of conduit should be as straight and direct as possible. When a number of conduit runs are to be installed parallel and adjacent to each other, you should install them all at the same time. The minimum-sized raceway that can be installed generally is 1/ 2-inch electrical trade size.

No in fact, it won't "do for now". There is no legitimate reason for a homeowner, or electrician working alone, to refrain from pushing light guage (#2 or smaller) wire in PVC conduit, when installing in trenches. Most homeowners, farmers etc... lack the experience and equipment to pull wire with fish tapes, wire lube and an experienced helper to feed the wire, etc. So, since you insist on pursuing this line of sillyiness, the specific issue is, can you cite a passage in the current NEC that specifically forbids the practice, and can you list an example of anyone having an installation fail to pass inspection, or fail to perform properly, having done so? Obviously the answer is of course not, like the OP stated, this has drifted into a thread of sillyness and obscurity. Claiming that issues are created by pushing, rather than pulling, wires in conduit is a clear example of his claim.

I spend time on these threads to help keep fellow members stay safe, and to assist in doing installations and repairs in the most logical and economical manner. Generally, I ignore posts like yours, but you really jumped the shark on this one, and now are just attempting to add confusion and noise an otherwise useful thread. After thirty years of running well in excess of a million feet of PVC, EMT, IMC, RIDGID, etc...... I can clearly say that I have a bit of a clue on this issue.

By going to a 220 volt service you effectively changed from a single 30 amp service to two 30 amp services, sharing the load between the two services. You should expect better performance by doing that, so I'm not surprised that the lighting flicker was cured. Most breakers are designed to allow for momentary startup surges without tripping, so you may have exceeded 30 amps total load when the compressor started and you observed flicker. But at a 30 amp load you should expect to see a 7 volt drop at 120 feet with 10 gauge wire, which is about a 6% voltage drop. 6% is more than electricians allow, but you'll get away with it.

Most electricians like to keep voltage drop in the 2% to 3% range, so they would breaker 120 feet of 10 gauge wire at 15 amps. If you wanted to have a 30 amp service 120 feet away and keep the voltage drop in the 2% to 3% range you would need to use 6 gauge wire.

For maximum safety using 120 feet of 10 gauge wire, you should replace the 30 amp breaker set with a 15 amp breaker set.

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When I put wire/cable into a conduit I start at both ends and work to the middle. I currently have the wire layed out on the ground (along side of my road). I put on a 20 foot piece of 1 1/2 inch conduit and slide it to the middle of the run. Then another piece and glue it. And so forth and so on. I do so after I have hooked up and tested the line and then unhooked it if everything tests OK (no breaks in wire, etc). I am sure NEC doesn't want me to re-utilize used wire, but OH WELL, they aren't paying the bills. If my barn were to burn down - I will just rebuild it. No insurance involved. I doubt I will even bother to run a pull string into the conduit. I can't imagine ever needing another conductor in the line unless it were a wire to hook up an alarm system for the gate - HMMMMMM - probably should do wireless though.

You can do anything you want to no skin off my neck. But there is solid reasoning for the practice. If the worse case happens and traumatic failure occurs. Barn burns down and is traced back to your work. Its your bill, insurance is out of it.
Good luck and do what you want. I'm out!

What's the "solid reasoning?" How might assembling conduit around cable cause the barn to burn down? How would an electrical inspector even know if the wire was pulled or not?

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IF, there was any little thread of reality that I could hang on here, some way to say to myself, "Wharton, step back and look at this from this guy's perspective, and think for a minute, he may have a point here?" But, I tried and got nothing. There is absolutely no basis for your claim of "solid reasoning for this practice" and in fact, I have yet to hear another professional ever discuss the issue, or ever seen it mentioned in print. After four years of apprenticeship, the majority of the core course work done for a BS in electrical engineering, and nearly thirty years in the field, I just can't figure out the motive, or reasoning behind your claims?

Yucca, you might be amazed at what gets reused, on even some of the biggest commercial and industrial renovations. Old hospitals and universities are known for this, and sometimes the maintenance dept. even keeps a junkyard of valuable electrical stuff to reuse. It's real common to reuse existing pipe runs. I have occasionally fit new panel "guts" to old fuse panels, upgrading the fuses to breakers, added a fancy new cover, but left the existing feed and branch circuit wires untouched. Everything from rehanging old light fixtures to sending motors, starters and large breakers out to be rebuilt and retested. it's amazing how much recycling gets done if the budget is tight, or you are working on really old stuff that is simply irreplaceable.

Come on guys - in my part of the woods (prairie, desert or whatever) a barn is as much an odd assemblage of old telephone poles, some 2x6's for stringers and rafters, and some used metal for roof and siding. Yeah there are some gates and metal cattle panels to divide into stalls, but we are not talking about major construction here. I know of very few high dollar barns in this part of Texas and even those are mostly metal now - not even telephone poles for uprights - all metal. So what is going to be burning again - HAY?? My hen house is 2 shipping crates on pallets set side by side with one wall taken off of each. Used the walls for roof panels and covered them with metal - Henhouse - hens never have known different and they seem to like it - keeps them dry.

This is why for the most part once you get past about 20 posts on any subject on Homesteadingtoday it's time to tune out.

Well, a'ightthen.

There is just so much wrong with that as applies here.

Absolutely no disrespect intended but.... the question ( I reiterate that ye are the one that asked it) has evolved and changed.

The original question had a title of "220 Volt Wire Run Info Needed" with the stated intent being " I in all likelihood will never run more than 15 amps at 110 volts." and the conductors being "6 AWG submersible cable that is twisted together with two identical other wires" - 3 wires.

Now that in, and of itself, started off the ground ( or 4th wire) debate that you deemed "As far as the ground, that question was superfluous to the whole conversation." - not so considering the original description. And when one mentions arbitrary additions of ground rods ....

That did become "I understand that I need the 4th conductor." and "It will be interesting to find out if anyone else disagrees with you. A phone call on Monday to my Electric COOP might shed some light on the subject too."

20 amps was suggested but it got to all caps "NO, I ASKED WHAT THE MAX AMPERAGE I COULD RUN ON #6 WIRES AT 350 FEET RUN."

That was confirmed by your neighbor " MY NEIGHBOR WHO IS A ELECTRICAL ENGINEER GOT OUT HIS TABLES AND TELLS ME I CAN SAFELY RUN 22.5 AMPS OVER #6 WIRE AT 350 FEET."

And this went South for you because ...??? And folks trying to keep ya safe ( yes, there are some problems with some replies but generally ...) "We are rapidly degenerating into the realm of "If you metamorphosize the binomial aspects" of this wire run. "

Then it goes from "What I want to make sure of is that I MAXIMIZE SAFETY in what I hook up" to basically that you do not care if the barn burns down ...

" Come on guys - in my part of the woods (prairie, desert or whatever) a barn is as much an odd assemblage of old telephone poles, some 2x6's for stringers and rafters, and some used metal for roof and siding. Yeah there are some gates and metal cattle panels to divide into stalls, but we are not talking about major construction here. I know of very few high dollar barns in this part of Texas and even those are mostly metal now - not even telephone poles for uprights - all metal. So what is going to be burning again - HAY?? My hen house is 2 shipping crates on pallets set side by side with one wall taken off of each. Used the walls for roof panels and covered them with metal - Henhouse - hens never have known different and they seem to like it - keeps them dry.

This is why for the most part once you get past about 20 posts on any subject on Homesteadingtoday it's time to tune out."

A'ightthen, have at it.

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