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11/15/13, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: western New York State
Posts: 2,863
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In my cousin's area in southern Germany, farm property is still laid out in narrow strips. Keep in mind life expectancy in medieval times, the magnified effects of a wet spring, cool summer, early fall...
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11/15/13, 08:58 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forerunner
Not much has changed, in re the deeper mechanics.
Your property tax is your payment to the overlord, and the shire reeve still sets the delinquent on the street if he doesn't pay.
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Actually the only thing that has changed is that the taxes are now much, much HIGHER for Americans than what the serf paid. According to Peter Schiff, chief economist and investment strategist of Europacific Capital....serf only paid 25% of their production to the lord. While we, as Americans pay closer to 60% when ALL taxes and surcharges are calculated. I would love to see the day when I am elevated to the level of a serf! They had it good.
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/2802...-feudal-serfs/
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11/15/13, 09:06 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 782
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Interesting that the pilgrims cultivated about 25 acres, not counting smaller gardens by hand for the entire settlement ( no horses). This was done by 21 men and six boys;
http://books.google.com/books?id=MPH...20corn&f=false
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11/15/13, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,334
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Well, as I said, I had read where the northern Indians had 100 acres of corn planted.
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11/16/13, 04:34 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mountains of Vermont, Zone 3
Posts: 8,878
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In these parts the homesteads were 100 acres. This is rough, rocky, mountainous land that's hard to crop but people did. They also ran a lot of sheep and some cows and pigs.
Front stone walls near the roads are the nice ones, all neatly stacked. Back walls are thrown together - literally as you worked the field you threw the rocks to the edge so that while the nice stone walls were a neat stack of rocks 4' high and 2' wide the back walls were generally about 6' to 10' wide, made up largely of small stones and more of a mound than a wall. If you wanted to keep animals in you made a better wall and then wood above that.
Where we are there weren't "indians" living since the native people were smart enough to live down by the rivers and flatter lands that could be better cultivated. Thus no native settlements, arrow heads, etc. European settlers on the other hand foolishly bought their 100 acre homesteads sight unseen while they were still back in Europe. Then they arrived here only to discover that the property lines had been drawn with a ruler on the map such that their parcel might be good land, or more likely it was swamp, steep mountain side, lacked water, etc.
Our old farm house is one of the oldest buildings in the area because it was on a good parcel. Not flat land, not rich soil, but pretty good for what is around here with a great spring up hill, a table top flat on the mountain above and two okay sloping fields to either side.
Other settlers weren't so lucky and ended up on top of the mountain with nothing, no water, all rock, etc or they were down in the marsh below.
There was an entire town here on our land at one point but it died in the mini-ice age of the 1800's. Now we find the foundations and see the stone walls out in the fields that show the property divisions and think "Gee, I'm glad I wasn't forced to farm that!" Those areas are forest or marsh now.
Cheers,
-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/
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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids
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11/16/13, 08:31 PM
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Singletree Moderator
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 12,975
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Horses work more quickly than oxen do, which might be why an acre of land was a day's plowing for a team of oxen or a horse. Under such labor a horse will get thin unless he is grained, while oxen can manage on good grazing. So there were benefits of using either.
I THINK hedgerows came from the old practice of laying a hedge to use as a fence. Any sort of tree would work, but if the hedge was made out of trees that would give nuts or acorns or fruit or whatever, they were a fence PLUS they gave edibles for the table. They also sheltered birds and rabbits which the peasants were not allowed to snare, unless of course nobody was looking! I heard of one peasant that had a rabbit fence made of rope (it would have looked like a long net), and on moonless nights he would set up the fence, scare the rabbits into it, and then walk along the fence clubbing the rabbits caught on the fence to kill them. Then, he would roll up the rope fence, put it away, and there would be rabbits to eat or to sell.
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11/16/13, 09:40 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,334
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Peasants didnt have or use horses on their own land. The Lord might have some old horses that had been for knights, but was to old for war, but threw great foals, and so he would use them, or have the peasants working off their rent use them on his land.
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11/17/13, 08:24 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: western New York State
Posts: 2,863
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There's an easy read called "The Year 1000". Very interesting. I came across it at a library sale.
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11/18/13, 09:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario-Home Sweet Home!
Posts: 3,031
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Interesting series on a medeval farm. made with the same historians as Victorian & Edwardian farm
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Do not Lead for I will Not Follow
Do not Follow for I shall Not Lead
I am but a Simple Drummer
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11/18/13, 10:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,334
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Yeah, I bought and watched VF twice, and that was cause I showed it to my kids. The guys were idiots. She was the only one who seemed to have much sense. Knowing what its like, im ashamed to show it to anybody else. I still feel sorry for pore ole Clumper.
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11/18/13, 11:03 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Llano County, Texas
Posts: 8
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Water in the American plains was a limiting factor... If you weren't right by a creek, spring or other natural water source cultivating any acreage would be foolhardy. It wasn't until wells were dug and windmills you saw too many hundred acre fields.
It's limiting today. Unless you inherited your farm or ranch you're going to find the tools, supplies, breeding stock is going to cost more than buying your land and building your home.
If you have saved your money and it's your life's dream to do more than run a few chickens and tend a garden you may discover you're too old... milking a goat in 20° weather or keeping your rabbits from dying in 110° heat will take your 40 hour work week and then some... it's an everyday thing so even 56 hours is just 8 hour days...
Coons getting your chickens? Good dogs. Barn cats for mice, gophers & such.
Sit up all night waiting for feral hogs.
It's work. I'm sure there are those than can turn a profit from something besides writing a book on How To. But, I haven't met any.
Heck, i like to watch those Alaska shows, but those men are worth millions. Or hoggers catching little hogs they bring with them in a trailer to get on camera.
Someone can do it. Subsistence without any other income or large savings I'd have to see all of it before I believed any of it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
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11/19/13, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 2,439
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I don't think anyone going by a small acreage plan can expect a comfortable living. Those plans are about survival and feeding a family and rarely include cash crops to cover mortgage, taxes, or any of the luxuries we are accustomed to like electricity and indoor plumbing.
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11/19/13, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 2,439
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I have seen profitable plans on small acreage in the urban farming community, but they were not sustainable, depending on stored fertility in freshly broken sod.
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11/19/13, 02:40 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Llano County, Texas
Posts: 8
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I'd enjoying seeing them. Through crop rotation and compost may be able to maintain the soil...
Our extreme weather limits my particular crop I intend to try next spring. I'm not urban by any means-50 miles to nearest Walmart or McDonald's.- but not big either. A little over an oxgang in size. Only livestock so far, cows, goats, chickens, rabbits. Cows are easy. Goats and chickens are fun. Cows don't need nearly as much bought feed as any of the others. Goats are dang particular... not the weed eater people say... They'll walk around grass... i guess if we didn't feed they'd eat it or fail...
Rabbits are cute so hard to harvest... but rabbits are more work here in the long hot summers.
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11/19/13, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,334
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Goats wont eat grass if they can find bushes to eat instead
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11/20/13, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 2,439
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Spinfarming.com was recommended by the urban farming group. I gather they specialize in niche items like unique greens, other things that are hard to row crop with automated harvesters.
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11/20/13, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 2,439
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Groaction.Com has an online course.
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11/20/13, 10:09 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,577
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I have found that goats and cattle make a good combination. The cattle being grazers keep the grasses mowed nicely while the goats being browsers take care of the brush and other things the cows dont like.
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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11/20/13, 11:00 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Llano County, Texas
Posts: 8
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When we had two AQHA horses they kept the grass down.
I wish when i bought my tractor I'd not got a shredder attachment and got a cutter for hay. But i listened to my experts.
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