Health Insurance = No Homesteaders & No Freedom

I pay taxes, too much for what I use. I sent my kids to private school but payed the public school taxes, never used the fire department or called the police but my tax money helps pay for them. Pay gas tax for roads. I have never asked for a lowered hospital bill, paid what was billed for my kids being born there. I pay for my own glasses, dental. Military...I pay federal taxes and am glad this country kept a strong military, up to now anyway. National parks, been to 1 and paid dearly for the privilege (Yosemite). I see the same thing here everyday. I would gladly give up many of these services to pay less taxes but I pay what I owe, short form, no added deductions and am happy to do so as long as government lets me make my own decisions. I have never asked for special treatment or help. It is the thought of things being forced on me. I can and do make decisions everyday, I don't need the government or you telling me what I will do. I choose to take my chances and have done well so far. I have, will and do use alternative methods to keep and stay well (raw milk, herbs). I don't need some do gooder running my life. Seems many people here want what is best for them, not what is best for all....James

I certainly agree our current system is broken. Im not sure how following the failed paths of other nations will help. We are apparently planning to rob our kids for this as well, let alone our peers. I have no understanding how people think this is sustainable. Even in countries its already falling apart like greece people are in the streets demanding more. I feel like Im in the twilight zone or something.

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I have a high desert arid mountainous climate. Working towards self sufficiency. The potentials of plant breeding and building micro climates amaze me. We must learn to ride the wave.

I had "socialized" health care for fifteen years. I guarentee you that most Americans will loathe it very quickly. I learned very quickly to go the private route for anything of any significance.

No offense is meant, but when I read this I take it to mean that since our system is failed lets rob our kids! Rome is burning, so kick in a few store windows and get yours while the getting is good! I highly doubt you view it that way, but from my perspective that is still what you seem to be saying. If we were simply robbing peers to fund our lifestyles it would be bad enough, leaving debt to following generations to do it is a whole different matter. a much more dangerous one in fact.

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I have a high desert arid mountainous climate. Working towards self sufficiency. The potentials of plant breeding and building micro climates amaze me. We must learn to ride the wave.

The usualy mantra of the left. The reality is that I pay too much in taxes for all of this stuff and would be quite happy to pay for it privately if that were an option, except for the military. I'm fed up paying taxes to provide this stuff for people that willingly live a life of government dependency. You also neglect to mention that the majority of people with their hands stuck out don't pay income taxes for this stuff. They are just moochers on the productive members of society.

I don't know whether you fall into the ignorant or hypocritcal category. Take your pick.

Yes, it is mandated by government and is the only program of it's kind, no competition. The result is a policy that is stupid expensive, put in place by government. Thanks, UncleDaddy Sam!!

Insurance compainies didn't build that, someone else did.

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Watch the transformation from city mice to country mice, visit my webpage at Billy Joe's Food Farm


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You are evidently incapable of reading simple English. The government 'mandates' that you have the option to continue your existing group policy for 18 months on your own hook. That means you start paying for the part that your company paid for before. It is not a government program other than the requirement that you have this option.

I don't wish to argue either way about our healthcare this is simply a statement of something that is fact.

We have hosted 24 foreign year long exchange students which have all been back to visit and we often talk about the health care issue. Most if not all of them live in countries with universal health care. They pay much less in taxes for that option than we do for our health insurance and none of them have ever had any problem being taken care of. We had one that had lost his sister to a very awful disease and they had received top notch healthcare. I understand that many of them also have the option of buying additional private insurance if they choose to do that.

I am leary of universal healthcare just for the fact that it does feel like we are giving up something but sometimes I wonder if in reality we haven't given it up a long time ago in other ways.

I dunno and definately no expert just know that many of those from other countries make pretty good arguements for their system. They are surprised when they hear of folks not being able to get medical services because they don't have the money to pay or to buy insurance.

And very few of those are legitimate functions of the federal government. Military and interstate roads, check.

Police, fire and schools are supposed to be funded through local taxes. Schools are so bloated that the feds use a carrot-stick approach these days, however, and they are still run terribly.

There is not enough money in this country to pay for every dang thing that people think *they* should get, enjoy, are entitled to, or however you want to put it. There is not enough money for the cradle to grave care that some people seem to want.




Ad nasuem is correct, however. I'll certainly agree with you there.

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Watch the transformation from city mice to country mice, visit my webpage at Billy Joe's Food Farm


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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinP
And this kind of attitude has always struck me as more than a touch hypocritical (or maybe just ignorant, depending upon the writer).

Public hospitals
Schools
Fire departments
Police departments, court systems, and prisons
Roadways, bridges and dams
the military
national parks
etc, ad naseum


Originaly posted by jawl10
These are all public goods/services where apparently a group of people have their hands out, expecting someone else to pull the wagon.
But I'm sure you "real homesteaders" (which, btw, was a tax-payer subsidized program! lol) eschew the use of any of that list.

I pay taxes, too much for what I use. I sent my kids to private school but payed the public school taxes, never used the fire department or called the police but my tax money helps pay for them. Pay gas tax for roads. I have never asked for a lowered hospital bill, paid what was billed for my kids being born there. I pay for my own glasses, dental. Military...I pay federal taxes and am glad this country kept a strong military, up to now anyway. National parks, been to 1 and paid dearly for the privilege (Yosemite). I see the same thing here everyday. I would gladly give up many of these services to pay less taxes but I pay what I owe, short form, no added deductions and am happy to do so as long as government lets me make my own decisions. I have never asked for special treatment or help. It is the thought of things being forced on me. I can and do make decisions everyday, I don't need the government or you telling me what I will do. I choose to take my chances and have done well so far. I have, will and do use alternative methods to keep and stay well (raw milk, herbs). I don't need some do gooder running my life. Seems many people here want what is best for them, not what is best for all....James


Let's not forget that if you use the fire dept or ambulance you get billed for their services. If you have to go to court you may pay the court costs and for your own lawyer. Nobody can afford to take advantage of their rights because they can't afford to go to court and uphold them.

Let me try this one more time. It is a scam, mandated by the government at the request of lobbysists. Individual group policies do NOT cost 1200.00 a month for run of the mill insurance. Your employer didn't pay that much, but because COBRA is seen as a "favor" done for you by your benevolent overlords, people accept that as fact.

We have bought our own policies for our family of five for over a decade, and never has a policy for our family cost that much, for really good insurance.

You can get a better deal shopping for your own policy than you can get via COBRA. Yeah, government says continue this, and so they do, but at a ridiculous price. Get government involved in anything of the sort, and prices go through the roof. Look at how much they spend per kid on public education. It doesn't cost that much to educate each kid, and at those prices we should have the smartest kids on the planet. And yet...

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just pointing out the cost discrepencies. Government will do what it wants, regardless of how I feel about it, because people continue to want endless "help".

So, people like me begin to do the only thing we can; pay off debts and live on as little money as we can so that we can stop paying as much in taxes. Without the small businesses in this country, like my family, tax dollars dry up. People keep pushing for more and more, and they will have less and less because average Americans who pay taxes are beginning to refuse to pay for it all, the only way we can; reduce what we need to live and reduce what we make.

Fleece your neighbor for your own needs and watch him close up shop, or simply move away. That is why we have no jobs. But don't worry, you'll have the government there to help you. A government whose only tax base is people who pay no taxes.

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Watch the transformation from city mice to country mice, visit my webpage at Billy Joe's Food Farm


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COBRA is a great deal. They should even extend the 18 months to a full 24 months. It would help a great many folks. I used COBRA and I sure am VERY VERY Grateful I had that opportunity to do so.
While on COBRA I had a very very severe reaction to one of my Rheumatoid Arthritis meds.
And it was so severe that mu kidneys stopped as well as my liver. I had about one day left being on top of the ground.

So after being in the ICU 3 days and another 4 days in the hospital that bill was way over 100K.
And ALL was paid by MY Employers INsurance because of COBRA, all except the 3K I had as a deductible.
Now I said they should extend COBRA to 24 months, this is the reason.
I had to go on SS Disablity, could not get medicare for 24 months.
COBRA coverage is 18 months Many times during that 6 months because of what I had just gone through with the drug reaction, I had many doctors appointments~!
I had then to Pay Out Of Pocket till Medicare kicked in. If COBRA was for 24 months I would still be covered by my employers insurance right up until Medicare would start.
I did take out a catastrophic policy for those 6 months for a Just In Case.
But that of course did not cover Meds, doctor appointments etc.

the real problem is the outrageous cost of healthcare.
obamacare dosen't address this at all. sure it's great that millions of uninsured will now have the opportunity to buy health insurance, but what about the root cause of the high prices? (frivolous lawsuits making it hard for doctors to do their jobs without fears of lawsuits, drug companies ripping us off, etc...)

it cost's me $134.00 per week, plus a $5700.00 deductable for a family of 3.
it's insane. i make a good living, or what i think is a good living, yet we seem to live week to week due to the cost of healthcare and taxes. 10 years ago it cost me $14 per week for insurance, good insurance too!

when do the people who have always paid top dollar for healthcare get a break?

Um, I used COBRA when dh changed jobs, they cannot charge more than what your employer was paying for your insurance at the time. My premium was paid for by dh and his was picked up by the employer, mine was EXACTLY what I had been paying. It's simply a way to make it available if YOU choose to take it.

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Someone wrote that the original homesteaders did not have health insurance. They did not have much healthcare either and as a result they did not live as long. And simple things killed them and especially their children.

There are many homeopathic remedies and alternate forms of medicine that work very well for small things. Maintaining a healthy body weight and eating wholesome and nutricious foods as well as exercising all helps to maintain health. But there is no salve that protects against tetanus or rabies and most people cannot operate on themselves for breast cancer or on their child who has a rupturing appendix.

And when your child has leukemia you can use modern medicine or you can watch them die. And modern medicine costs a lot. So you either pay for insurance or pay the costs yourself which bankrupts thousands every year or you can depend on the charity of strangers. I personally would rather pay my taxes and because of my contributiohs to my country be entitled to government subsidized healthcare than hold my hand out and have to beg for a charity to take on my child's case.

You just flat don't know what you're talking about.

Is this an option? Without piling debt onto my children that is. We cant even fund current expenditures, many of which are set to rise as more boomers retires.

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I have a high desert arid mountainous climate. Working towards self sufficiency. The potentials of plant breeding and building micro climates amaze me. We must learn to ride the wave.

Yes it is an option but it would involve enormous changes including to the tax system and the enforcement of illegal alien laws including severe punishment to employers as well as separating the defence budget from a war budget (a specific tax for this). Not very likely to happen. But what is the difference between piling on debt for wars or piling on debt for healthcare? Other than the obvious that one benefits the citizens of the country while the other only benefits the arms manufacturers.

I for one don't care for this ageism bs. Boomers built what is here today. We paid for everything that the young had while growing up. If the young now have to pay towards our lives then so be it because we will still be paying for their lives and their children's lives as we age. If the young cannot contribute to medical care for the old then why should the middle aged and old contribute to healthcare and day care and education for the young? Because we are all in this together.

Meanwhile back to the OP, you bring up an interesting question but the freedom you seem to be yearning for has never really existed and is more of a romantic notion IMO. Homesteaders going back to the founding of this country have always made sacrifices to lead their lifestyle and few "homesteaders" solely made their living just from their small homesteads or small farms. My great grandparents were poor dirt farmers who basically eked out a small income from their small holding but they had to both work off the farm to pay for things. Most of what their farm produced went to sustain themselves in a manner we would consider homesteading today but my GGrandmother did laundry and sewing for folks and my GGFather did labor type jobs and that was far from abnormal.

I am all for HC reform but its the people who see this as an opportunity to follow a "lifestyle choice" where they can forgo employment that offers benefits so they can follow their dreams on the backs of others that make me just shake my head. That is the mentality we have bred in this country. Get an education, work hard, and save for your dream and you will appreciate it more knowing you earned it.

If you are working in a field that doesnt provide HC coverage then sorry, your choosing to lead a lifestyle which is fine for awhile but pay your own way. You obviously dont pay much (if any) in taxes so the argument about how you pay for the military, parks, police etc is bunk; if you do pay a lot of taxes then your making a lot of money and can afford your own darn HC and if you dont have it its because you choose not to.

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I used to be a staunch conservitive in every way especially when it came to taxes. Now as i have went through some tough life lessons that i think God has chosen to show me how to be humble, especially to people that are less fortunate than i am, it has changed my view on so many things. Many that are very conservitive as i once was, are only a tragic scenario away from being humbled by life. It is a shame that our health care system today is only affordable to the people that are lucky enough to have a good employer or that make enough to afford it. Health care should not be a part of class warfare and in my opinion should not be a for profit institution. I do think their should be no free rides, but that we need to find a way to make health care affordable to all, and that all need to pay what they can afford into it. Does this mean i am for the current health care law? No, as i think there are better alternatives than the solution our lawmakers have come up with. When you see a friends father die of cancer because he couldnt get treatment because he couldnt afford the insurance, laying in a hospital bed next to a guy that is financially well off and was getting treatment for his cancer, it is a sad eye opener as it came down to who had more geenbacks in their pocket as to who would live and die. I am quite sure this is not what God had in mind as an ideal situation of humanity.