USDA encourages Meatless Mondays

silverseeds · #61 08/02/12, 09:43 PM

IMO the USDA shouldnt in any way be doing anything remotely like this. Instead they should be providing up to date knowledge on conventional AND organic AND alternative growing systems for farmers AND gardeners.. Along with preserving the necessary germplasm for plant breeders of ANY level including back yarders in seed banks. Other then that, they should have no role, imo..

fishhead · #62 08/02/12, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieq

?? Maybe you can consume pond scum, but we'll be still be taking down Bambi and her mother and enjoying steak tartar!

Even at our relatively low population compared to the rest of the world we could exterminate the deer populations in a few years if they became our main source of meat. Our population passed sustainable hunter gatherer density a long long time ago.

I think we are 350 million now and headed towards 500 million.

silverseeds · #63 08/02/12, 09:49 PM

As for meat versus pollution, I dont buy it personally considering the massibe herds of animals humans have devastated, that by some estimates still outnumber what we raise currently...

Ignoring that though.... Why not try to get people to eat goat or rabbit instead?? Done well goat milk is more productive per input then cow milk. (easier to digest as well.) the goat meat is also more productive per input for meat, and rabbit is even more productive for meat then goat. With tilapia and carp being VERY efficient on water based systems, as well as being very easy fish to culture. (although our modern systems for fish have been designed in very inefficient ways)

silverseeds · #64 08/02/12, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

I think we are 350 million now and headed towards 500 million.

No we are well under 350mill. and claiming we are headed for 500mill is arbtrary consdiering all the levels we pass in the meantime..

Keep in mind though, that is 100% because of immigration. Our country without immigration is actually heading lower in population.

fishhead · #65 08/02/12, 10:03 PM

313 million and growing. U.S. Population 2012: Nearly 313 Million People - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)

It doesn't matter where the population increase comes from because a hungry mouth is a hungry mouth. Most of the increase probably comes from births to immigrants rather than the immigration itself but that is irrelevant too.

Marshloft · #66 08/03/12, 12:51 AM

And,,, with all that being said from the USDA,, what the schools pass off as meat,, isn't what I'd call USDA prime,,, thats for sure.
Both my boys are meat eaters,,, they refuse to eat the garbage that the school attempts to feed them as so-called meat.
Just sayin

Old John · #67 08/03/12, 07:12 AM

Does Eating Fish on Fridays Count?? We still do that regularly, even though we haven't been Catholis in over 30 years. It's just a habit. The Catholic Church back in the day, did not consider "Fish" , and I think other Seafood too, to be Meat. So eating Fish or Seafood allowed us/them to Abstain from Meat on Fridays.
ETA>....So, Does that count as our Meatless Day?

It's good for me!! I Love Fish & Seafood.

silverseeds · #68 08/03/12, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

It doesn't matter where the population increase comes from because a hungry mouth is a hungry mouth.

Would we then have a population problem as a country? Or an immigration problem? (keep in mind the bulk of these came bypassing our laws)

pancho · #69 08/03/12, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

Even at our relatively low population compared to the rest of the world we could exterminate the deer populations in a few years if they became our main source of meat. Our population passed sustainable hunter gatherer density a long long time ago.

I think we are 350 million now and headed towards 500 million.

How many of those do you think are capable of hunting and killing deer?

silverseeds · #70 08/03/12, 09:18 AM

Any scenario I can think of the leaves deer as the countries main source of meat also implies a massive die off. Even then, I have no idea why farm animals would disappear. In my area massive herds of cattle are entirely freeranged. (they outnumber people) with many people doing the same with goats. We have lots of deer, and elk and other gam animals as well but I cant really imagine a scenario deer and other game animals become more useful then domestic ones, unless society fell so completely no one could safely breed farm animals, and they were all eaten first. Which again implies a massive die off.

Paquebot · #71 08/03/12, 10:56 AM

Maintaining a steady meat supply hinges 100% on a steady feed supply. An acre of land is only capable of supporting so many animals for their sole supply of feed. The numbers are controlled by managing the herds so that their demands do not exceed the available feed. The nation and the world's human population continues to grow but acreage does not. Because of the size of the US, temporary feed shortages in one area are covered by excess in another. But if the problem affected both areas, and there is no feed at either end, the result is that meat production ceases either due to all animals having been sold or starved.

Venison as an alternative can be quickly eliminated. The current huge herds in many states are the results of careful management by each state's DNR just as if each were a huge farm. The year that I shot my first deer in this county, a total of 12 deer were registered. The city that I now live in was just over 1,000 population. In 2010, there were 1087 dead deer removed from roads in this county and this city is 25,000. Wouldn't take long to return to just being excited to see a track under unregulated hunting.

Martin

silverseeds · #72 08/03/12, 11:49 AM

Its actually not to hard to multiply the amount of feed you can grow on a given area, although it can take a long time to get it in place, and involves much more work. More of a homesteading application, then a commercial model for a first world nation. From building micro climates that put the water where needed and keeping it there, to forage trees grown and coppiced you can produce many multiples more feed then a standard pasture. But like I said its a lot of work, and in the case of trees takes a long time...

Deer population are high not because of current careful management exactly but because the edge of forests and such offer much more forage, then the old growth forests of the past. there was a time careful management was key yo raise the numbers from their lows (mainly from the 30s and hunting, atleast where i grew up) once they had solid numbers though, due to the much higher amounts of forage, they are actually hard to keep in check. which of course would change if many relied on them. I still cant fathom many scenarios most meat would come from deer and other game. not without a massive dieoff.

fishhead · #73 08/03/12, 02:21 PM

The US is only about 5% of the world population. If/when food production drops we can shut off our exports but that would only work for a while if production continues to drop from climate changes.

fishhead · #74 08/03/12, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancho

How many of those do you think are capable of hunting and killing deer?

I believe MN sells 400,000 deer licenses each year. That's a lot of people capable of killing deer and if they are hungry enough the rules won't apply and then more efficient ways of taking deer become the norm.

pancho · #75 08/03/12, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

I believe MN sells 400,000 deer licenses each year. That's a lot of people capable of killing deer and if they are hungry enough the rules won't apply and then more efficient ways of taking deer become the norm.

Lot of difference in the number of license sold and the number of deers killed.

tailwagging · #76 08/03/12, 08:19 PM

LOLOLOLOL GATTA WATCH!

Thought for Food - USDA Meatless Mondays & Plant Communication Research
"Meatless Mondays" erase "Trichinosis Tuesdays," and morally superior vegans are actually vicious kale killers.

Thought for Food - USDA Meatless Mondays & Plant Communication Research - The Colbert Report - 2012-02-08 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

acde · #77 08/03/12, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

If we keep breeding like locusts there will be a day not too far off where we won't have a choice but to become vegetarians. It will be good for us too in many ways not the least is our health but also our climate and our food supply that depends on a relatively stable climate.

I can see a day when we will be consuming protein from wastewater plant bacteria.

If we keep breeding like locust, they'll come up with sexless saturdays.lol

unregistered97395 · #78 08/05/12, 02:27 PM

Meh. I don't eat that much meat and it hasn't hurt me. I did at one time because I believed I *had* to have it. After all, I was on medication for anemia as a child and eating it does make me feel good. But so does eating watermelon or blueberries or a lot of other things.

Besides being very expensive, eating too much meat is bad for your health. Protein in the form of beef is hard on the kidneys and the heart and the gut.

I really don't get what the uproar is about ... unless all those protesting are making their money through cattle!

ErinP · #79 08/05/12, 04:06 PM

Quote:

eating too much meat is bad for your health

I wonder how the Inuit, the various Plains tribes and other nomadic nations around the globe managed to have such excellent health, then?

a'ightthen · #80 08/05/12, 04:36 PM

Shoot, I give them credit.

"Meatless Mondays" is, politically, a much better headline than "Well shoot, we still don't have our act together, nor a plan to do so ... but seriously, we have our heads stuck together ... it is just so dark in here."