DNR to Kill Hogs and Small Family Farm Incomes

This is the latest I've seen. It's from Baker's website:

Hello, this is a friend of Mark and Jill. They are very busy, so I asked if I could update everyone on what is going on. I helped Jill set up the website, so I had access and they said it would be OK if I posted a status update.

To begin, I would like to ask all of you that pray, to pray for Mark, Jill and their family. The situation has been very stressful for the family. Pray also for all those in the Michigan Government that are involved and that they do the right things regarding this issue.

Status update: We spent a very long day on Sunday waiting to hear trucks come down the dirt road in front of Mark’s house. Mark, Jill, the children and a few friends that Mark wanted to have with him, if the situation unfolded and the DNR came to kill his pigs. The conversations were filled with emotion. Not anger or bitterness, but more like sadness at what our great state of Michigan has turned into. The whole situation reminded me of a line in an old movie. “If the fox comes and kills a chicken, you don’t kill the cow” or something like that. The DNR wants to stop feral pigs, so they punish the farmer that has not done a thing wrong. Not a lot of logic in that. I can see if they said “Your pigs got out and have caused issues; we are fining you or punishing you,” But to never have done something wrong and lose a business you are building for your family and for your boys to take over someday, is just wrong.

Anyway, back to Sunday. Mark was uncertain what was going to happen. He had a report that said the DNR was coming on Sunday to kill all his pigs and he had also had been notified that the AG (Michigan Attorney General) had stepped in and requested the DNR hold off on killing the pigs until Mark’s Lawsuit against the DNR was heard in court. I have not seen the AG’s request, so I am not sure what It said or how much weight it has. I am just going by what I had heard. All of this is just from memory, so please don’t hold me to the details.

We waited and waited, the kids played outside and we helped with chores. It was a beautiful day in northern Michigan and it was hard to imagine that our government could be planning to do what they have said they were going to do…

Late in the day, we said goodbye to Mark, Jill and the children and headed back to our respected houses waiting for updates from Mark. Nothing happened Sunday. Mark spent the entire day on Monday talking to his attorney, family members, friends, radio talk shows, and a dozen or two folks that called to let him know that they are supporting him and are praying for him. The support has been amazing. The love in the form of emails, calls, and donations has been a blessing to the family and have helped strengthen the case of the family farmer and one’s freedom. Thank you and keep spreading the word.

Tuesday morning: We heard that the DNR may be coming today to all the farms that have pigs that fall into the phenotype categories that the DNR have said are prohibited, today. They were not to kill all the pigs, but to take inventory or to inspect. We are not sure why, but that is what was told us. Let’s hope that is the case. Mark is trying to keep his mind on the farm; Jill is busy with the little ones.

More to come. Keep praying and spreading the word. It is a struggle that is affecting all of us.


Bakers

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Wild Hogs here are not escapees from Hunt Farms they are Hogs that were bought at Sale Barn and turned lose.I've heard it takes 3 Generations to go completely wild but some say far less.

The State here Stopped Other Hogs other than Domestic Hogs being brought across State Line which put a stop to one Hunting Ranch I hunted on that Imported Pure Russian Hogs from Austria.They took every precaution with these Hogs not one got out even if they did there wouldn't be any breeding because all he had was Boars.

One other place I hunt they have two strips of Woods next to each other.One area is for Breeding the other is for Hunting.

Here is a Link
Exotic Hunting Ranch. Hunting Exotics. Wild Boar, Deer, Elk Hunts. Mo Hunting Ranch

big rockpile

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I guess I'm doing a poor job explaining this.

"Killing domestic hogs will do nothing to control feral populations."

Maybe if you look at this s two or three problems.

Imported Wild hogs, like Russian Wild Hogs, have escaped from hunt clubs and breeding farms. They are a serious problem. DNR has failed to capture or shoot more than a few, while hundreds remain to reproduce. The DNR or MDA has stopped the importation of these Wild Hog species.

Hunt Clubs have done a poor job containing these exotic Wild Hogs. The DNR has put a stop to this "sport".

The farms that supplied the Hunt Club with Russian Wild Hogs have lost their main market, Hunt Clubs. They were given 6-8 months to market their Wild Hogs. Most did.
Because most of the Wild Hogs in Michigan were on Wild Hog breeding ranches, most of the escaped Wild Hogs came off the 200 or so Wild Hog breeding ranches.

So while the DNR and land owners and sportsmen attempt to reduce this population explosion of imported Wild Hogs, the Hunt Clubs are no longer a source of Wild Hogs getting loose.

However it makes little sense to try and control the Wild Hogs that have escaped and are breeding in the wild, while allowing people to breed them at their farms. I don't think that when the Bay City farmer put 250 imported Razorbacks on his fenced 40 acre swamp, that he expected in 35 days they all would be gone. But that is what happened over and over around the state.

Maybe it is to late. Sticking the blame is worthless. Putting a stop to the known source seems like a reasonable way to control the problem. Our forests, rivers, lakes, ponds, fields and orchards deserve that we work together to manage our environment in a way that is best for everyone. If someone wants to grow Razorbacks, move somewhere that has them. I'm not looking for a Michigan with a changing ecosystem caused by a few people that think it is their right to bring in a pest and let it get loose in the environment. That is what most of the Wild Hog breeders of Michigan and others like him have done.

Silly to think DNR or any state worker is going to work on Sunday.

I'll guess they want an inventory so when they start killing them, they can be sure the breeders haven't set them loose. Could also be that they intend on paying market value for them before they kill them and need a number.

Are you saying the Hunt Club imported Pure Russian Boars from Austria for you to shoot? Wow, that must have been quite an expensive hunt?

Me thinks those folks that were trying to pasture raise their Duroc or Hampshire or Hereford, or Landrace wouldn't think a Purebred Russian Boar on the loose was a good thing. Glad your state put a stop to it.

No that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying if its a breed used in Agriculture a established and historic breed its the relm of the MDA.
Aksai Black Pied
American Landrace
American Yorkshire
Angeln Saddleback
Appalachian English (pig)
Arapawa Island
Auckland Island Pig
Australian Yorkshire
Babi Kampung
Ba Xuyen
Bantu
Bazna
Beijing Black
Belarus Black Pied
Belgian Landrace
Bengali Brown Shannaj
Bentheim Black Pied
Berkshire
Black Slavonian
Black Canarian Pig
Breitovo
British Landrace
British Lop
British Saddleback
Bulgarian White
Cantonese
Chato Murciano
Chester White
Choctaw Hog
Creole Pig
Cumberland Pig
Czech Improved White
Danish Landrace
Danish Protest Pig
Dermantsi Pied
Dorset Gold Tip
Duroc
Dutch Landrace pig
East Balkan pig
Essex
Estonian Bacon
Fengjing
Finnish Landrance
Forest Mountain
French Landrace
Gascon pig
German Landrace
Gloucestershire Old Spots
Grice
Guinea Hog
Hampshire
Hante
Hereford
Hezuo
Iberian
Italian Landrace
Japanese Landrace
Jeju Black Pig
Jersey Red
Jinhua
Kakhetian
Kele
Kemerovo
Korean native pig
Krskopolje
Kunekune
Lacombe
Large Black
Large Black-white
Large White
Latvian White
Leicoma
Lithuanian Native pig
Lithuanian White
Lincolnshire curly-coated pig
Livny
Mangalitsa
Meishan
Middle White
Miniature pig
Minzhu
Minokawa Buta
Mong Cai
Mora Romagnola
Moura
Mukota
Mulefoot
Myrhorod
Neijiang
Ningxiang
North Caucasian
North Siberian
Norwegian Landrace
Norwegian Yorkshire
Ossabaw Island
Oxford Sandy and Black
Philippine Native
Piétrain
Poland China
Red Wattle
Semirechye
Siberian Black Pied
Small Black
Small White
Spots
Surabaya Babi
Swabian-Hall
Swedish Landrace
Taihu pig
Tamworth
Thuoc Nhieu
Tibetan
Tokyo-X
Tsivilsk
Turopolje
Ukrainian Spotted Steppe
Ukrainian White Steppe
Urzhum
Vietnamese Potbelly
Welsh
Wessex Saddleback
West French White
Windsnyer
Wuzishan
Yanan
Yorkshire Blue and White

a few I'm aware of. many have at least one trait that would allow the DNR to charge you as a felon for possessing a wild or feral hog.

by Definition though any of those that are loose become the DNRs responsibility as at that point they are by definition wild and pose a risk of establishing a feral population.

but that does not mean the DNR should be involved in agriculture.

there are laws that cover animals at loose, Dog are probably one of the most regulated. Yet another species that easily goes feral.

the problem many of us are having with the regulation is the asinine way it is worded. its very badly written and far two broad.

I do not think anyone wants feral pigs here. But I think many do not want a mono culture either. that in and of its self is a risk. a example would be the potato famine. for a example of small gene pools, not a monoculture but limited genetic diversity look to pedigreed dogs, many breeds suffer from many different health issues. this is one reason we have a MDA.

Seriously would you allow a proctologist to do your brain surgery?

I hope not it would not be in his field of expertise.

that is my point.

Unfortunately, from my understanding when this law (the invasive species act not the new pig regulation) was entered into law. the provision for determination was a council composed of various departments including the DNR and MDA. Upon reviewing the law it appears that Gov. Granholm in her infinite wisdom used her executive privilege to remove the council and transfer all powers to the DNR. Hence the issue at hand now.

Why couldn't you require a spay/neuter prior to delivery? In business all costs are transferred to the customer. In the case of hunt clubs I would see it be of little issue. Guys who want take that route normally do not scoff at price. should not raise the price astronomically either way though. Cost of doing business or not. Spreads the wealth too.

Deer/Elk in a "farmed" facility are very highly regulated. The same should go Wild pigs. You darn near have to have a license in this state to pass gas. Facilitys that offer hunts or supply them. I use hunts very loosely should all be licensed. that involves paper work.Much like the Cervid farms. Animals accounted for,transfer papers,health papers so on so forth. its just lazy much as the wording in this regulation.

raising for a hunt club is not my definition of agriculture. You keep Identifying these breeders and the hunt clubs. would they not be the segment of the population that should be regulated?

why do you need a microchip, tattoo not sufficient? not a huge cost there.
can be done as piglets and really should be.

to prevent off "Farm" breeding in the wild prior to reaching preshiping sterilization. artificial insemination could be a requirement.

there's a variety of ways these guys could be regulated with out economic hardship to those non party. Again cost of doing business.

I do not believe the DNR was aware of the trend until it was well established.
even then though I think they took it lightly as their just pigs.

As a general rule though those raising pork for market or table fair do not choose "Russian boars" (wild) or razor backs (ferel) as they do not lend themselves well to husbandry in a traditional or even modern farm environment.

those of us that are taking issue with the regulation just want it to be rewritten to be clear and concise. which it is not.

“Why couldn't you require a spay/neuter prior to delivery?” Do Wild Hogs escape prior to spay/neuter?

Who insures this? You advocating State employees on your farm every few weeks to insure each litter is spayed/neutered? How’s that work for those wanting to keep a breeding herd?

“Much like the Cervid farms. Animals accounted for,transfer papers,health papers so on so forth.”

Much different situation. Cervids (deer and Elk) are health checked and IDed prior to getting to the farm and regularly after that. Still some herds have been found to carry disease and whole herds have had to be destroyed at great cost to the taxpayers that had to pay the farmer what the deer were worth.The 8 or 10 foot fences keep them in. If they should get out, they just get in with the existing population of wild deer and Elk.

“raising for a hunt club is not my definition of agriculture.”

I guess we agree on that. I’ll add that Hunt Clubs isn’t really hunting either.But since raising Wild Hogs for Hunt Clubs is more about escaping hogs than raising hogs, I guess the DNR can try to control it.

“I do not believe the DNR was aware of the trend until it was well established.even then though I think they took it lightly as their just pigs.”

I guess we agree again. At first Hunt Clubs were buying nasty cull pigs from Livestock Auctions. The meaner they looked the better. Many farmers looked at it as a way the city raised “hunters” were getting snookered out of their money. No one to call a halt on that. But then it took off and it takes government so long to act. Then you have the Hunt Clubs telling how good it is for business. Our elected officials won’t stop that.
It is tough to regulate. I’ve seen PBP/Russian Wild Hog crosses. I’d hate to have to say if it is wild or not. Looks wild to me.

Yelp sure did,came through Canada,run Blood Test and all up there,brought in Reinforced Trailers.

Now all they have is Feral.



big rockpile

__________________
I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.



If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

I know that around here, we shoot any hog we see !! they are destroying everything around, pasture, turkey eggs, quail, EVERYTHING in their path. Our local paper said if we kill 8 out of 10 wild hogs, we can stay even, but if only 7 out of 10 are killed, we are losing the battle. We don't have any "hunt clubs" around, just ferral hogs, and we kill them.

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From what I found they are not currently regulated at all. Some hunt clubs are for other animls, but not for the feral hogs or wild boars. So funding would have to be found. Funding is pretty difficult in MI right now.

A dexter cow isn't known to destroy too much if it goes wild. How many wild Dexters are there and how many farmers will have never lost one when obviously SOMEONE did.

Well,that's the problem here -someone(s) didn't and there's no way to tell who, when, why. Or who seems to be irrespionsible. Unfortunately, it seemed that many that are responsible are paying for the irresponsibility of others. It seems like other states realize what a problem these hogs can become if not contained and that they become impossible TO contain at certain population levels. MI is trying to be proactive before the point of no return.

A dexter cow isn't known to destroy too much if it goes wild. How many wild Dexters are there and how many farmers will have never lost one when obviously SOMEONE did.


Come on..debate the issue if you want. But don't be .. well.. obnoxious. No where did I say that there were WILD Dexters..come on. If you don't understand that people like me want to make sure that people like Bakers are treated fair because I would want BAKERS to stand up for us IF IF we were facing some equally weird based law concerning our Dexters..our chickens..whatever..then you are just trying to add fuel to the old fire. You're not being sincere.

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I read the DNR. Durocs were raised by my grandparents. If i chose to raise hogs I think this hardy old breed would be a good one. The DNR says these need to be put down as they are not white skinned. The idea that these gentle old breeds are being called wild hogs is a very stupid one. I have seen and been around some russians and they act nothing like duroc. The person raising the russians was raising them for hunt clubs. He never had any escape in the 6 years he had them. He currently has Buffalo. This thing just needs to be rewriten by people who know what the difference is between heritage breeds and wild hog types. I do say shot any hog no matter the type if it is not yours and on your property(then check your fence) unless you have a neighbor next door who raises them as we all have trees fall on fences and such.

Something is confusing me.

There was a bounty put on wolves and hunters shot them to extinction in some states.

There was a bounty put on buffalo and for a long time we THOUGJT they were extinct.

So, to get rid of the pigs THAT ARE RUNNING LOOSE why isn't there a bounty on wild hogs?

Oh, yes. Durocs were a very popular hog when I was living in California and still are in Kansas. They have been shown by the 4H kids at the county fair for the last 2 decades that I know of. And, their skins are not white.

Haypoint,

Just been reading through the continuing discussion here. Just wanted to let you know that I think you are doing a great job representing the true issues here. Thanks.

KMA1

"Killing domestic hogs will do nothing to control feral populations."
.
.
Pardon me, but feral hogs ARE domestic hogs gone wild.
Not wild breeds. Just plain ol barn yard varieties.

There is much of the same confusion here as in the equivalent thread from the swine livestock sub-forum, so I will repost my comment from there:

I'm afraid you and a lot of others don't understand how the Latin names are properly used. Boring CAFO pigs are Sus scrofa domestica, genus Sus, species scrofa, breed/sub-species domestica. Many wild species of Sus exist, but there are dozens of breeds/sub-species of Sus scrofa other than domestica. All Sus scrofa can interbreed, wild or domestic(domestica), and produce fertile offspring, that is what defines a species.

TLDR: the white pig in a giant barn with 2000 others that look just like it, and the furry tusked boar in a forest in Russia are the same species, Sus scrofa.

For the Greek/Latin and Legaleese disinclined, theese three points define any pig as wildtype. Any and all pigs. Any shape, any conformation. The DNR order requires only one positive characteristic for declaration as wildtype. It is impossible not to qualify for all three.

The DNR people who wrote this and signed it into law should be fired for gross incompetance. If a single animal is destroyed based upon this document, even a bumbling idiot could win a court case that would overturn this executive writ. The govenor ought to countermand it before the state gets sued.

"Something very positive came out of Baker’s testimony, though. Senate and House members were so struck by the DNR’s intended trespass on private property rights, that 16 of them co-signed this letter to the governor, Letter to Gov Snyder 3-30-12 asking him to intervene to end the threat to small farms and private landowners."

Big Pig Lobbyist Uses Cloakroom Tactics to Foil Small Farm Defense - Hartke Is Online!

the letter

http://hartkeisonline.com/wp-content...er-3-30-12.pdf

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Thank you for posting the letter link. It gets to the heart of the problem.

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The feral hog explosion won't be stopped until Bubba and his buddies understand that turning a few loose at their favorite hunting spot is a serious mistake.

I just ran across an article that came out in the Tuesday March 27, 2012 issue of the Grand Rapids Press. I have the printed page and will try to get their online version that I can cut and paste. My typing isn’t that fast to retype the whole article.
DNR Director Rodney Stokes sent a letter to breeders of Mangalitsa pigs states, in part that they can keep their pigs, unless they have crossed them with Eurasian Wild Boar. He stated publicly that they hoped that having notified everyone, that they would hold enough hunts to get rid of the animals on the ranches and hunt clubs.
The article states: After April 1, we will be doing inspections. We will, in many cases, ask the property owners to handle the depopulation on their own.
Mark and Jill knew this. I’m sure it was written before the “Sunday Showdown” that never was going to happen. Feel sorry for the folks that got scammed out of their money supporting a situation Mark and Jill knew wasn’t going to happen.
I think eventually they’ll have to butcher their Eurasian Wild Boar and his crosses. Then they can get back to preserving the heritage breed that they tried to make you believe was their only intent.