Plow vs tiller, another age old question...

Sorry ... not trying to hi-jack the thread. I hope this is pertinent ...

We'll be doing green manure on our fallow garden area. I see that you're not supposed to till yearly to prevent erosion, but you have to till under the green manure, don't you?

Just a light till or does the presence of the organic material counteract the erosion.

No you do not have to, could kill chemically and plant through it, or chop up with a bush hog, then disc in.

Part of using a plow is taking the time to set it up correctly to run properly and even to chopping cover so it can do the job. having the right plow helps too! Not all ploughs are sod busters, if you're using a plow meant for corn ground well it is going to have a tough time flipping sod. Adding things like landslides really makes a difference in clay loam or it did on ours. If the sod is turned so it lays consistently and smoothly on the previous pass your discing time is cut down a lot! Ploughing dry ground is chunky ploughing too wet is messy. Moist soil helps though.

Oh I wish I had a roll over plough and press wheels like Greengrow!!! Never used skimmers though, they don't look rock friendly.

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You can see the sa mmew thing on U TUBE back in the 30s, a guys plowing with a wide front end IHC and 3 bottom plow and pulling one section of rollar packer behind the plow.

I think I have tiller envy. Part of the reason we plow is to expose insects and grubs to freezing weather (we dont spray insecticides or herbicides) and to break up the hard pack soil we have and expose rocks. We pick rocks every year after plowing and make corner posts out of them (make a circle of field fencing and dump the rocks in and anchor the whole mess with a couple old bent T-Posts) before we use the 3pt tiller. We find that using the tiller greatly increases our ability to incorporate organic matter into the soil and our soil where we have our truck garden is now developing in to rich fertile loam from the virtual gravel we started with.

For the hay fields we lime, disk and fertilize but so far have resisted broad leaf herbicides (though I must admit its tempting at times). I have a single bottom plow and a middle buster but am looking for a 2 bottom plow as we speak....I think you made a good useful purchase.

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I've prepped many areas and fields for 30yrs with a Ford 14" 2 bottom kick blade plow, Once it's set right will go the 12 to 14" down and turns the cover crop very well. I try to plow around late Jan to Feb and let cover crop decompose for a couple of months then 1 trip over the area with 3 pt tiller and make excellant prep, when planting potatoes don't even need a shovel, just stick your hand in and drop in spud, the soil is incredable loose and the plow breaks up the hard pan. With just tilling only breaks up top 5" soil, not enough for carrots and a lot of rot crops. Spuds love the plow & till method. So do the earth worms. I have a 14" deep top soil mix in my regular garden areas from turning and mixing over the yrs. I think you'll see an inprovement in airation and depth of organic matter.

Most of the soil around here is silt over clay. Many farmers have switched to chisel plow/disk/drag combination with some down to 2' deep. Those who do that also bale their corn stalks so that there isn't a lot of surface litter to interfer with grain drills or planters. Those who leave the stalks are either plowing or go over it with a flail mower. The farmer which I'm associated with now uses either chisel or moldboard plows depending upon what is best for a particular crop. Yesterday he started with the trio combination for 40 acres of seed oats where corn was last year. But, he'd also done the same thing last fall without sufficiently breaking up the stalks. He planted today with a drill with coulters to cut through any litter. In hindsight, I think that plowing would have been better for that field.

When he got done with preparing that field he switched to a plow for my 37x190, 7,000 square feet garden which was covered with about 6" of leaves. My instructions were to set the plow as deep as it would go. Resulted in a dead furrow almost a foot deep along one edge but every one of those leaves are buried. At the highest point, even brought up a thin layer of clay which had not seen daylight in 10,000 years. No ordinary tiller can do that.

Martin

Soil and it's preparation is different everywhere. Farming, we moldboard plowed everything here, fall for grass seed and wheat, spring for row crops. Plowing the same depth every year causes hardpan. Plowing when the soil is too wet does too. So does disking. We only disk in the fall to cut up residue before plowing. We deep ripped or subsoiled every 4th year. A good strong field cultivator will areate and loosen soil. A garden can be different depending on soil. We spring plow here to bury the cover crop. Fall plow on flat ground to leave open, rains break it down over winter and a good 3pt. S-tine cultivator and a roller is all that is needed to make a seed bed. We never rototill, causes a crust on top that has to be broken up so seeds can emerge. Hard to get soil dry enough in the spring unless it is opened up and left to dry. Then build seedbed when moisture is right. Best tool is a S-tine cultivator or what we call a rollerharrow, combination of S-tines and sprocket roller....James


These work well here to build a seedbed. Come in 5' to 60' models, 3 pt and drawbar pull.

Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog Page 16-03 Toolbar Cultivators

In the above picture, Hes not useing a rollar packer, but a rotary hoe, which would be better as it dosent pack the soil IF your not going to be planting in a week or 2. Weeds have a chance to get going in the packed earth. BUT, If your going to be planting in a day or 2 a packer might be alright, IF you ran a rotary hoe over the field immeadiatly after planting. I think a packer following the plow is better if your going to be sowing something. When I had an F-30 I hitched the disc in front of the packer, and the 30 with swinging drawbar could make the turns. Now, I dont think my H has the power, and my CC Case has narrow tires and has a hard time turning as its swinging drawbar dosent swing that much.

I'm guessing your wife doesn't read this site, right?

one advantage and this some what is soil types,

is if one deep plows, you pull up nutriments that have in some cases escaped a shallow rooted plant, and you bury seeds that could cause problems as a tiller or disk is just weed seed planter,

in our sand the silts and clays work there way down though the soil and after a number of years all that is on top is some thing similar to a beach sand, and plowing has helped pull many of those finds and nutrients back up into the the top layers of the soils,

I live in a location where green manures are not overly practical as it will use up all your moisture for the cover crop and none left for the crop crop,

but a lot depends on the soil and the location, and the desired end results,

If it was bought new take it back, if used call and discuss!

Bill, here is a video of what he was using, just a little bigger and a different hitch. It is called a plow packer, breaks up the furrows. We pull a rollerharrow in front of a grain drill when we seed and all is done in 2 passes....James

When I can afford it I'm getting a Pioneer plow with the Kverneland bottoms. They roll the sod over sooooo sweet. From the point to the end of the bottom is about 3 feet long.
Pioneer Equipment Plows - Sulky, Gang, Walking and More

Are you also saving up $$$$$ to buy the plow and the horses to pull that plow?

I once saw a couple of ole boys pulling a similar looking plow with an old beat up Toyota pickup. To their credit, they were getting the job done.

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I've got the work horses, but those Kverneland bottoms are pricy. I have a 3 point, 3 bottom Kvernland that is about worn out, but the replacement parts are really costly.

By the way, in that clay soil that I've shown here, it takes 85 horsepower 4 wheel drive to manage a properly adjusted 3 bottom 14 " plow. I've been using a 180 horse tractor to pull a 4 bottom, because I can keep my speed up.

Clay can be a real pain to till thats for sure.

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

The KVs are quite nice. I wouldn't kick one out of my shed.

There are really too many variables to give a simple one or the other answer. But I do have one serious thought that you may or may not have considered: with the plow you bought, is there either a plow trip release or a breakaway device at the drawbar to make sure you don't turn your tractor over when you hit a rock? If you haven't used a plow before, it is something to look at.

geo

We used to be 90 hp with 4 bottom 12 inch, added the press and 10 hp, then more hp to increase speed, now with better soil structure due to much less working 150hp pulls 5 bottoms at 14 to 18inch.

haypoint you could look at a furrow splitter
http://www.kvernelandgroup.com/irj/g...908-en-001.pdf