Trade School VS College

A degree/certification doesn't guarantee employment and "success." My best friend was indoctrinated just like myself that a college degree equates to more money/success... and in some ways she has looked down at my dh's lack of college and that I don't use my degree. Ironically, between her and her husband they have three bachlor's and a masters. She can't get a job teaching because of budget cutbacks and too many other unemployed educators; he can't get a job because he's "too educated" and there are too many other CPA's looking for gainful employment.

In my dh's line of work welding, electronics, and electricial are all crucial skills... he got most of his training on the job and then later got certifications. As a general rule his company (and most of his trade really) won't hire tech school grads because they are "untrainable and aren't willing to work for the starting level pay."

Education -- no matter what kind -- just makes you more marketable... provided you're willing to be marketable.

Looking back if I had to do all over again...had NOT going to college been an option I would have gone to a trade school and learned something that I could SELF employ myself. Unfortunately that option is just as foreign concept now to most as it was when I was graduating. Like Belfrybat states they are the step child of education. I grew up in a very white collar suburb and the thought of dirtying your hands was unthinkable... trade schools were for "poor families."

I wish I hadn't been told I "had" to go to college. I couldn't stand the idea of suffering through 4 more years of traditional schooling, so I quit. Three times. It wasn't until I was 30 that I finally let go of the guilt of not finishing-but I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up and I hated sitting in a classroom. I hated that for the 12 years I suffered through regular school!

I was having a haircut by a young girl-maybe 20 or so-and thinking how nice it would be to have known at that time there were options besides a degree (there were no options in my house-I'm still the black sheep for not finishing) but I would have been much better off being taught a skill rather than having my head filled with book mush and being forced to sit on my hands for 4 years.

I hope my children do well and enjoy school, but if they do not I will feel much more confident in their ability to support themsevles knowing they will learn from me to raise their own food. (As I learn from you smart people and Google.) I just hope they both marry a guy who knows how to use a hammer!

It all depends on YOUR aptitudes. There is no way to generalize which is better. People should go with their strengths and not with societal demands. The one thing for sure is that life without a highschool diploma is pathetic and with a diploma it just keeps body and soul together. Just look at the income statistics of those without advanced education. Any form of advanced education is worthwhile whether it is a degree, diploma or apprenticeship. My Father provided real life experience /on the job training for 2 to 10 engineering students every summer. It took him years to have technical students included. He got very tired of those who knew the theory but not the practical. A doctor may be able to perform open heart surgery but not without the guy who installs and services the operating room lights.

Not only does it depend on what you want to do but a person needs to be a little realistic about what the future holds. For instance:

College degree in Engineering (mechanical/electrical) = Good
College degree in Business Management = Not so Good

Trade School degree in CNC Operations = Good
Trade School degree in Graphic Design = Not so Good

Specialization is key, no matter which route you go, and keeping expenses down. A 4 year degree from a College with 100k in debt is bad no matter what the degree is in. That same college path but going to Community College for 2 years, or earning some college credits in High School and keeping loans to a minimum would be better.

Also, concerning computer programming jobs being a dime a dozen. That's not true in all areas of computers. Go down the path of little computers, yep, lots of people going down that path and thinking they're go to make a killing, some will, most won't. But, go down the path of a Mainframe programmer or engineer and the picture is totaly different. Yes, your opportunities (employers) will be limited, but the income will be significant considering the average age of the mainframe workforce is well into their 50's. The mainframes are not going away anytime soon, in fact, with "Cloud" computing they will have an expanded role in the future.

I think the important thing is to have some idea what you want to do and do you know of a source for jobs in what you are going to college or training for.

I always wanted to live out in the country so I went for a forestry degree. At the time I went in school LOTS of jobs in forestry. Got in and that was the recession of the Reagan years. Interest rates and the S and L crisis cut back on any home building and strip mining cut back on the mine timbers sold so the forestry jobs dried up. Luckily I also got a business degree and found a job using that.

However education was cheaper back then.

Nowdays I think either is good but I know a lot of kids who don't really want to get a job so they just go to college and sometimes even stretch it out and have some degree that is total fluff.

I know 2 kids both started college at 18 and after numerous degree changes and stuff graduated at like 28 and 29. They have tons of debt and are both working as telemarketers, job they could have had w/o an education. One had an art degree and one had a religion degree. I could have told them the employment prospects of both. I tried to get the one with the religion degree to get a degree in education so she could teach. No luck.


Sometimes I wonder if kids wouldn't be better to just spend the money on buying a house. Even if it was a small house then when you paid for it you have something and then even if you worked at a low paying job you'd have no housing expense.

My wife and I got out of school at 23, started working and we bought our place, 85 acres when we were 27. We had it paid off by 2000 and even though our salaries have not gone up much when we paid the house off it was like a huge payraise and we had all kinds of money. Now you see kids with 40,000 bucks in college debt and then I see small houses for like 35,000 around here and I think wouldn't that be more security than a degree?

Hubby and I have a mix of college education and trade school. After I got my first college degree, I went to a cosmetology school. My employer paid for it and I figured that it would always be there if I needed it. Hubby did something similar in that his employer paid for him to take lots of classes over the years so he took auto mechanics, welding, pipefitting, electricity, blueprint reading, and robotic programming. The trade stuff is how he's made a living for most of his adult life, not the college degree. However, it is the degree that qualifies him to be a supervisor, etc...

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To me a trade school would be so much better than just going to college. And I have always been a firm believer in common sense will get you so much farther than book learnin. I know many people that are not working in the field that they had their education in. But you also have to have a trade that is in demand now, a harness maker, or tin smith probly isn`t going to cut it in the general world. A good mechanic always has work, as does a carpenter, a mason is getting hard to find as are other old trade types. So just do your homework and study what you want to do. > Thanks Marc

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Must agree and disagree with Hermit on this. I completely agree that debt is not a good thing. However, if you are going to go in debt, I believe there are only two things that are ever worth going into debt for - a home and an education. We are currently in an ebbing economy so things don't look as bright as they have in the past, but over the past several decades a home and a degree have greatly appreciated in value. I would definately recommend HS grads look into community colleges or less expensive local schools - frankly I don't see that an expensive private or Ivy League school gives you enough of an advantage over a community or state college to justify $100,000 debt.

Another point I would disagree on is military experience. My experience has been that a military background is still very marketable. Of course that depends on the industry - but there are still alot of companies that WANT vets in their workforce - particularly those who've been through tech school. Not trying to read your mind Hermit, but I just sense you're not a big fan of the military, which is fine, but it is still a great way to get vocational training and get your education paid for. Is it for everyone? No. But it is a great fit for many folks.

Neither wins, its about what you want to do. 1st Son Army, 2nd Son Engineer and the 3rd Son a plumber. All support thier families and like what they do. Engineer son College, Plumber son a Trade School and well the Army has it's own school.

Well, I'm trade school (tool maker) and my son is college (mechanical engineer). He stayed in and got his Master's, with the result that he started his first job making more than I ever have in my 35 years in the trade. He always wanted to be an engineer, and worked hard to get it.

BTW- They do have scholarships for trade schools, at least here in FL. Our company sponsors and mentors people in the machining and tool making courses. The student works full time during the day, and goes to school at night. There is no cost to a student except for books and some small tools.

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My advice to anyone who is not sure what they want to do, is to go to a good community college and get an Associates degree. You can get in all of the "have to have classes", like Eng Lit and have them out of the way. First, it's much easier to go to college before you have responsibilities. Second, a community college is way cheaper than a university and you and your parents can probably pay for the two years without loans. Third, because a four year college will have to accept that degree (variable between the states) and when you decide what you want to do, you only have two or three years left to get your bachelor's degree instead of four or five. Fourth, the classes you take may help you in learning to organize, write, observe, and other things that you don't know you are learning. Fifth, it always looks good on paper (you finished something you started, you must be proactive because you went to college, you must have some maturity on you because you went to college,...).

And also, you may find something you like while in the comm college and taking a variety of classes. Ours has classes for horticulture, for instance.

Too many people study what they want because that's what they like when they should get an education that would allow them to get a job. I've always wondered how useful Art History and Music degrees are for most people. People who get psychology degrees often don't make a lot of money. A friend of mine has a daughter currently getting a psychology degree. She knows she minimally needs a Master's. She wants to work in Child Life on a pediatric cancer floor. I wonder how she'll pay rent after all her loan payments even if she can find a job.

Getting an education based solely upon what you enjoy is a wonderful luxury. Most of us cannot afford such luxuries.

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I agree that neither "wins". It is not a "win or lose" situation. Whether one goes to trade school or college depends on what you want to do in life. If you want to be a doctor, going to trade school isn't going to get you into med school. Same as going to college to be an auto mechanic, plumber, or electrician.

A college degree can open doors that will forever remain closed to those that do not have a degree. That and giving a person a well rounded education are two of the reasons many people go to college. There is no need for a huge amount of loans, community colleges, city colleges, state colleges are available at much less expense than Yale or Harvard.

A trade school education can be had with grants from the state (at least in Georgia). Many employers will also pay for a trade school education or college education (my employer will pay for both if the degree or certificate is related somehow to my job).

There is also work study, scholarships, and co-op opportunities as well to help pay for college and some trade schools offer scholarships and work study.

My son will graduate from college this May. He already has a job opportunity if he wants it, but is going for a Masters degree. We are waiting to hear if he got into grad school. If he does, he hopes to be a grad assistant or as he says "a paper grading monkey" which comes with a stipend. So there is another way to pay for an education.

I do vote for "do what you enjoy because you are going to be doing it for a LONG time". Most people change careers up to five times in their lifetime, constantly reinventing themselves, even some trades have gone by the wayside so it is a good idea to stay on top of your chosen profession/career/trade in order not to be left behind.

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Both, you now need to work with your hands and mind for the best paying jobs and the ability to keep one.

Exactly.

I have one child thriving in Law School and one in undergrad who is one interview away from leaving a four-year University and starting with an oil field outfit as a rig hand, and hoping to work his way up through the ranks to Tool Pusher and perhaps beyond.

Different strokes for different folks. What wins for one may be a big loser for another.

Tim

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Go to school... LOL

Get me an EDUCATION!


Most millionaires work for themselves in small business, 90%+. Most workers are broke.

Did you know you can make more money cutting grass than most doctors? Plus the insurance is cheaper. I know of a bloke that cleared 7 figures as a sole proprietor.

Did you know that the longer you spend in school after the eighth grade, the less likely you are to be a millionaire? Teaches the brain to be a good "worker". Never success.

Did you know that the highest paid "professional career" doesn't require a degree... Sales!

Did you know the average payment for collage is more than $300 a month. The average salary of the average worker is... You know average about 40K. They make on average +10% for the efforts in collage. Did you know that the average parent of a potential collage student, High school graduate, Collage undergrad, and even the collage graduate. Can't do simple math?

You see they go to school. To get some learn'in.
Get a loan for 8000 each year.
Graduate with 32,000 dollars in loans.
Plan to pay it off in 10 years they need to make a payment of 320 +/- a month or 3840 a year. Don't miss a payment... That really changes things. But let's assume your the responsible type.

All this to make 44K... they give back 4K to the loan. So they get 40K for ten years.

Yeah, now I make the difference for the "rest" of my career. No not really. You forgot to add in the cash of the fella that was working those first 4 years... You start with a debt of 32000... They start with a Credit of 152,000.

How long will it take at +10% to make back the above? At 4,000 a year. simple math says 38 years.. No wait... I'm not working 48+ years to "make" the profit.

Oh yeah,
You get to be in the next higher tax bracket too.

But lets not dwell.

I tried the oil field work when I was young.
That is what finally taught me that I needed more education.

[QUOTE=stanb999;5786640]Go to school... LOL
Did you know that the longer you spend in school after the eighth grade, the less likely you are to be a millionaire? Teaches the brain to be a good "worker". Never success.

Yeah right. All those scientists and engineers and doctors and nurses and teachers who create the life we live are just good workers with no skills and imagination or work ethic living in abject poverty and never a success. What a bunch of losers at NASA not to mention all those lawyers and financiers who wasted so much time in University! I guess it depends on how you measure success. Dollars are only one way. There is also the challenge and satisfaction of the work. And a $40,000 salary is just a starting salary. Most professionals make 6 figures by the end of their careers.

[QUOTE=emdeengee;5786957]I think Stanb999's point was that yes if you jump through the educational and loan hoops, and work hard, handing over huge amounts in interest payments for your education and house and car, you probably will still indeed lead a comfortable life. But you wont be one of the very wealthy. You dont become VERY WEALTHY working for others. Just doesnt happen. The very wealthy hire those college educated middle class to generate income for them. They find smart talented people, pay them a steady middle class salary with few bonuses for good performance. Maybe few other perks like gold plated medical coverage. But they dont cut them in on the real profits generated.

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Trade school (aviation maintenance) has opened many doors for my husband, and been great to us. School wasn't cheap, but now he can go for free to fruther his knowledge, and the payments on his 30K loan are quite doable.


I think with whatever you choose, you have to choose wisely. Don't go for a career that will pay a pittance and take out huge loans to do it. Don't go for something obscure and superfluous that jobs never open up in (I wanted to be a zoologist. 80K in loans for a job I would be lucky to get making 25K a year? Nah).

His job has allowed him to also work on planes privately in trade for his real love, skydiving. And he can pay for jumps with no problem, but sometimes it's fun to hang out with the other jumpers, tinker with the plane, and go hop out for free a couple times. He is *good* at what he does and it may take us to NZ, where he would love to live (convincing me is the hard part).

Me, once we're done having babies and my time is a bit more my own, I think I'll probably go for phlebotomy training. Just something I can do no matter where we live, and pay for training OOP. I don't know if I will be a SAHM long term, just whatever works best for our family and my sanity will be the game plan.

He has gone overseas for excellent money, and the option is still there, but it isn't worth the separation to us anymore. It is there though, if we decide we want to speed up a few things or need the cash.


I think, if you find something you enjoy, you should do it within reason. But don't let your job make a slave out of you via student loans, constant moving around on your dime, or great physical risk. Other than that, give it a whirl.