Goat vs cow, the age old question..

My brown swiss cow is the center of the homestead produceing milk cream and butter icecream the milk can be stored longer than a goats. excess milk or butter milk goes to help raise other livestock pigs chickens dogs love the leftovers her calf supplies my years supply of beef slauterd at 10 months old before putting a lot of feed in him all this on grass and hay .I do feed grain at milking time as a bribe to make it easy getting her in the milking barn I feel she earns the extra treat and consider it an investment in not going to the store for beef or dairy my recient ansestors very rarely fed grain .you need really good fenceing to keep goats whereas a cow is contained with a few strands of barbed wire high produce hostiens and some cows need higher quality feed but the home milk cow breeds can do fine without it and still make plenty of milk as far as handling that is a matter of how well a cow or goat is trained we had a jersy that led easer than a dog and most will soon learn a set routine

Sounds like what I'm looking for is some type of beef/milk cross. Maybe some experimentation and time is whats needed to find that special cow. I'm a patient fella. It isn't too hard to find crosses around here and I do work with farmers beef and dairy) so I know alot of them ( I work at a local feed store ).

Maybe what I'll do is get me a beef/milk cross and see how she does. If she is too needy I might breed her to a beef cow then try that one. Like FBB said, I'm just one single guy so my needs are limited. I think if i got more than a quart of milk per day I'd feed it all to the chickens anyway...maybe get a couple pigs, IDK.

FBB I will need very little milk as I am only one man here. I currently only grow about 1/2 acre of feed corn and it all goes to the chickens along with some beans, extra eggs, and kitchen scraps. I keep between 12 and 20 hens ( 2 roos), I raise a few more in spring and then cut back before winter.

I'm thinking anything more than a quart a day will go to the chickens and maybe I'll get a some pigs

What I really need is a little milk, a little meat, and as much manure as possible.

I would think that would be a good way to start. I'd breed the cow back to beef anyway, something you have to do anyway and a 3/4 beef offspring will produce more/ higher quality beef and will sell better as well. If she produces too much milk for you, keep one of her 3/4 beef heifers.

We gave our extra milk ... or milk that had soured (no electricity) ... to pigs.

As to the manure, I suspect you are going to find that a little difficult to 'gather' if she's out on pasture all the time. Not sure how that would work, exactly!

You also may want to think about rabbits. They produce very good meat, very good quality manure and because they're caged, the manure is easy to manage. You will probably want to supplement the does when they are milking with pellets but you can certainly maintain them on grass/hay/weeds if you want to.

Any good milking rabbit breeds?

By "only need enough for my own use" do you mean you yourself personally, or you and your family? (if you are including your family, how many people are in your family?)

A Cow can produce a LOT of milk - with dairy breds you are talking in terms of gallons per day. With goats, depending on the breed you are talking much less milk (measured in pints a day rather than gallons), and may be more appropriate for one person or a small family.

On the other hand, if you went with a meat breed of cow, you could always just take what you want need and let the calf have the rest, since they weren't bread specifically for milk production, you shouldn't get into trouble.


Edit: -oops didn't see you'd already answered this. I think in your situation, I'd go with either goats or a beef Breed cow. I don't know that for one person you'd even need to go with a beef/dairy cross. One factor is that you will want a gentle cow. That may be harder with beef breeds because they typically have less human interaction than dairy breeds. But if you start with a young cow and get her used to being handled you should be OK - just get her used to being touched and her bag being washed while she's young.

Well ... I DO select my replacement does based to some extent on the weight of the babies they wean, which indicates 'good milkers' ... but I've not been able to figure out a way to milk them.

However ... thinking about it, you might be able to do like they do with mares. With mares, you cut the syringe tip end off a syringe, turn the plunger around, put the upper end around the teat and pull back. Suction draws the milk down.

You might be able to do that with a very small syringe on a doe. (But how long it would take for a quart of milk I have no clue!)

I would look at a milking dexter. They have good milk, but not so much you are swimming in it, they are smaller, easier to work with, good meat, and do fine on grass alone. Plus keep the calf on her and "sharemilk", So you won't have to milk every day if you don't need it.

Yeah, thats what kind of lead me to thinking about the scottish highland cattle. They are a beef breed that can thrive on marginal or even poor pasture and they are known to browse like goats. They are a beef breed. I'm thinking maybe get a really young one and handle her daily, spend time with her, etc..

If I'm lucky I maybe could save money on mowing that pasture ( since she'll browse ), get some nice meat, a bit of milk too.

Im hopeing u plant OP corn. Regardless, Dont let those stalks go to heck. Get a chipper shredder and run the stalks through them after the corn has been picked. Leave the husks on the stalk. The cow should appriciate that. Wont do her a whole lot of good, but will stretch her hay and give her a different taste once in a while. You will have to get some 1 X 2 or 4 woven wire to make a silo out of to keep it, and keep the top covered. BUT, like you keep saying, You want to raise your own, for your own.

You aren't wanting to huge milk production,heck,you don't want much at all.

So if the milk goat/cow is fed its natural diet of grass/forage,it might not produce the maximum amount,but then that isn't what you want anyway.

Makes you wonder how any livestock survived before we were told they had to eat grain/pellets....

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We have both Scottish Highland and Dexter breeds. We milk/have milked both.
The Highland milk is very high fat (our cat prefers the Highland milk), but does not separate as readily as the Dexter milk. We get about 2 gallons/day from our average Highland, and about 2-3 from our average Dexter. Highlands are slightly better at eating the less desirable forage, and have a greater tendency to browse. Highlands mature much more slowly, as much as a year slower than the Dexters to breed the first time. The bulls/steers mature more slowly too. Highlands eat more than the Dexter, they are a bigger breed.

We do not feed grain to any of them. During the summer we use managed intensive grazing and they gain very well with just this method. I wouldn't suggest Highlands if you're in an area where it gets fairly warm during the summer, they're better as a cold weather breed.

Both breeds are likely to be easier keepers than the dairy type cows that have been suggested previously, but they will produce less milk and more beef.

I grew up on a ranch (beef cattle) in the 50s so I don't know about dairy cow practices, but all of the beef producers I knew had cattle on pasture in the summer and fed hay in the winter. Nothing else.

The cow/calf operations like ours calved in the early spring and the goal was to wean 400# calves in the fall.

The only time I remember any ranchers feeding supplemental feed was if they had a particularly hard winter and were running short of hay. Then what most of them fed was something called "cottonseed cake" about the size of a Fig Newton cookie as I remember it.

I've also talked to ranchers in the SW that fed this in dry summers when they ran out of grass ... but the only time I know of supplements being fed in beef cattle operations were when grass or hay was in short supply.

To a lot of people nowadays,the very idea that a cow can eat grass is almost insane...you HAVE to feed them corn,otherwise it isn't REALLY a cow.

There was no such thing as grain feeding where I grew up,the beef ate grass,and there was very little of that.

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First look for a milking stool for one.
Heard they were hard to find.

I'll throw in my 2 cents. You do not need to give grain to goats, if you are willing to accept that you will get less milk production. More grain = more milk. Less/no grain = less milk. I'm in a similar situation. I wanted to find animals that were fairly easy to maintain, and didn't want to spend a fortune in feed. I got some goats, put them on my property (80% woods/brushy, 20% grass) and only feed any grain/feed for the first few weeks after birth. While I'm not getting tons of milk (not enough to feed to the other animals or the like) I get plenty for my families needs. I too wonder how our animals survived all these years without grain. :-)

Thanks thats good advice about using the silage. I never thought of that.

The reason I am so much insisting on using my own and not using outside inputs comes from my experiences trying to sell/profit from my market garden last year. I sold a lot of eggs and vegetables but didn't make too much.

First, to sell at my market you need liability insurance ($500 per year), then you need to pay for your spot at the market (150 per market, per season ). Then you have to race to get stuff out early, which meant using cold frames (we have a very short season up here VT ) which cost money to build. Sounds easy to just homestead and sell your excess but it isn't. I could just advertise locally or try to sell stuff on road sides I guess. Putting up a sign wont help because I live int he woods and have nobody around who'll see it.

All the regulations and the extra costs of selling my extra stuff just makes it too hard. btween the insurance and the market cost i was 700 dollars in the hole before I even harvested anything! And its not like I'm running a big operation here, I cultivate less than a couple acres and keep some chickens.

So ,what I've learned ( yet again ) is that inter-dependence doesn't work for me. The profits go to the people who set those things up and make the rules. My new formula is to try to be a self sufficient unit, as much as possible. I'll sell some extra but I'm not getting involved in the whole farm market. My focus this year is just living off my land as much as possible.

This has already been done for you, in the form of a Brown Swiss or a milking Shorthorn. They are both dual breeds. Milk/meat that is. Neither of these breeds require grain unless you have reason to up your production.
What you may find when you start milking a cross bred cow (dairy/meat cross) is that her teats are too small to get ahold of. If you have children. They can usually get ahold and get the job done. You'll get the arthritus in your hands milking a small titted cow.
The other thing is temperment. You may get a change in temperment that you may not like. Especially on the second out cross. I guess you can always eat her.
If you put additional calves on your cow you can decide when you want milk. Pull the calves off in the morning. Milk off what you want and turn the calves back in. If you want to milk all the time you can bucket feed a batch of calves. Or like you said, purchase some feeder pigs.
Last week at the sale I saw 11 Jersey calves (week old) go for $25 ea. Good healthy, clean and bright eyed. A bunch of feeder pigs sold for $36.
You shouldn't have a time selling off either pigs or calves. People are waiting to get them. All we do is put up a notice at the feed store and they are gone.
Wish you the best in your endevor.

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Either way you decide to go I would consider growing some grain and alfalfa for them. One thing that I'm surprised the goat people haven't mentioned yet is that goats need copper. I don't really know if this is true or not, but because I believe the folks here that have raised goats for years I do copper bolusing on my goats. Not sure what special needs are required for cows.

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comfrey is another easy high protien-- high calcium good for cows, goats and rabbits "crop"...it grows like weeds and will spread...so manage it

pumpkins are another excellent feed for either animal....I've had goats have triplets just on good hay over their pregnancy....about a quart of grain a day makes wonderful production for mine....of all the breeds I've had Alpines were the best foragers/easy keepers....but now i have them heinz 57 between Nubian/alpine/sanaan/boer cross breeding....and they fit in the back of my subaru for transport!